EVE General Discussion

I havent read the entire thread, just skimmed the bits up to Sreegs' last post, call me lazy - I actually really don't have the time. So, I may be rambling about something already discussed, but this is something I feel so strongly about to at least take the effort to bring it across. Even though I'm about to take an eve vacation for the period this discussion matters most, since the latest news about this subject makes me expectant that the RMT issue will be a lot less profound by the time I have time for hobbies again.

To get to the point...

There SHOULD be some indication that action has been taken against a character's account on grounds of game-destructive behaviour such as botting, and it SHOULD be visible to all.

Why?
Not for reasons of revenge.
Not for reasons of inciting shame.
Not in a feeble attempt to change the perpetrator's behaviour for the better.
I do not care about these people.

I care about me. Also, to a lesser extent (this is EVE after all), about the other people that are not risking damage to this game for their own betterment.

I feel that we 'normal' players have a justifiable entitlement to the information required to shield ourselves from these people: I want the ability to avoid business with them, I want the ability to avoid conflict with them. I want the information required to utterly and completely avoid ALL INTERACTION with these people. If I were crazy enough to feel tainted by their very presence in the same system as myself, I would still be entitled to the information required to decide to get the hell out.

If we do not know, if we befriend these people and, for instance, loan them isk or assets, we get involved involuntarily!

The effect that these people can have on those they interact with can potentially be so profound, we need to know. Deceit is integral to EVE, but the deceit must remain contained within EVE and the meta game. A drastic permanent mark on these people would not be interfering with the meta game, as RMT and botting has no place there either. You can not remove these people from our game experience entirely - you can reason that, due to the sandbox, we are also entitled to our chances to play with fire.

But RMTers and botters have crossed the boundary of the sandbox, we should be able to know, all of us.

As with all drastic policy changes:
Announce widely, then apply the mark to those that transgress despite the policy change only. While the reasons I stated above are valid for 'old cases', there is one major problem with retroactive marks on botters: People have already been involved with them involuntarily, either directly or by affiliation. That does **** with the metagame while still in the sandbox. Can't have that.

This thread is going to get very long so I doubt if you, Sreegs, will get to read this however here goes:

I have interacted with all kinds in Eve. From saints to sinners, from miners to pirates. However in every case, no matter how venal or virtuous the in game actions of the player each one maintained the minimum level of ethics. The minimum level of ethics, the barrier between good player and bad player is the EULA. Now, I do not doubt that mixed in that motley crew of misbegotten individuals there might have been a malefactor or three. However if I had any inkling there of I would have immediately and brutally ended any relationship I had with them.

In fact, during my time as Editor at Eve Guardian we in fact did find out that one of our reporters was purchasing ISK via RMT. He was summarily dismissed and I contacted CCP directly about our obligations as far as reporting "known" RMT activity. Fortunately there were no financial or any other in game connections to be had with this player but what if it had? This is why Name and Shame serves to the player base. Not as a deterrent, though it is a good one, but as protection from unsuspecting innocent bystanders... errr... victims depending on circumstances.

I would say, in the most strongest terms, you owe me the names so that I may protect myself. Far better than me having to plead with you that I really wasn't involved, that I wasn't connected, and please oh please can I have stuff/account back. By not naming and shaming: You put me, my efforts, and my investment in your product totally at risk.

Scarlett Letters ?

Yes Plz Ma'aM


keeping your corporations clean of spies and thiefs is hard enough,

anything that helps to not have RMT or Botter in there because of a flag helps alot.


Flag should be active at 2nd warning imho, 1st warning you said alot didn't go back to their evil ways

Identifying a character nailed for botting basically puts a giant bullseye on them in local. If I see them in a belt, mining (for instance), I would be far more likely to flip their can and cause them trouble (as it would be more likely that they were still botting and thus an easy target for stuff like that). If they have reformed, and no longer bot, they would respond rationally like a human, and not fall for tricks that would fool a bot. At which point, I would continue on my way happy for their souls.

There's another game I play every so often (All Points Bulletin: Reloaded) and they do naming and shaming for different types of "botting." What people seem to do, in that game (which is sort of also a sandbox), is they'll gather on the forums, when names are released and they'll create a massive thread in order to make fun of each person who they recognize. And then, of course, whenever the ban is lifted on any of those accounts, they're made fun of whenever someone recognizes them ingame.

Although, the APB community is slightly different compared to the EVE community.

I for one can't wait to get my scarlet letter. They're the new monocle, except instead of proving you've more isk than sense it proves you're a bonafide no honore cheater. What would be the minimum I'd have to RMT to acquire such wonderful bling?

I want them. If you don't want a red letter, biomass, and start over.

"You made your bed."

Personally I would not send letterrs with the names. Most of the large alliances honestly don't care about members botting.

What would be interesting is, if they receive some kind of ingame punishment. For example concord stops protecting these players for a time in highsec.

Or in 0.0 when a botter logs off while being in space, his ship stays were it is, without despawn.

This is true, but there are plenty of larger corps too. A solution would be for anyone with the role 'personell officer' (or whichever role is the one that allows you to accept applications) would be able to see Scarlet Letters of applicants. Since CEOs also have this role (since a CEO has all roles), it doesnt change anything for tiny corps, but it means you don't make the life of CEOs of mid-large size corps a living hell.

I think, especially in the light that assets do get seized, it is important that corporations can see if the people they recruit haven't been caught botting in the past. This is the main reason for somehow making that scarlet letter visible.

Before our directors just basically said don't do it. Some people were pretty blatant about it, but with 8000+ members, it's almost impossible for the directors to do their jobs and babysit/police all the discussions going on.

Our team finally built the necessary filters to search for this stuff.