EVE General Discussion

A big yes from me, name and shame the player, we have no need for cheats in game, better to get rid of them by taking away the thing they do best, which is hiding away un-noticed

If its problem "what if they do turn good again".

Even if i think that once a criminal all ways a criminal.
Do you erase criminals police file so that you encourage him to become good???
Criminal must be marked forever.

But, lets get back to idea for CCPs calmer mind,
but crime flag on all first time banned accounts for a time of like 18 months. (18 payed months of gametime!!!!!!)
That months must be connected to the time account is active.
so that time passes out only if owner is PAYING that account for next 18 months.
Player will be paying if its important char for him and if its alt you know that its not important to him and he would kill it anyway.
-> locking of chars to account must be permanent from first strike.

And for second offence flag it forever!!!



And yea, we all must see the flags!!!!!
CEOs are persons like everybody else and we all need to know if we do business with ex criminal.

No, because real players went to do hi sec incursions anyway and rats are capped in the amount that can be killed per day per system.




PLEX is a CCP control on ISK value and a legit alternative to buying money. RMTers have been damaged by PLEX introduction much more than by the anti-botting campaigns.




There are quicker and easier (and safer) ways to wash money than this.




Client side detection fingerprints the account used, CCP bans all the related accounts, VM or not.
Without it, all the illicit 3rd party software use could not be proved / detected and CCP would be still at 2005 situation of having to manually check every suspicious player by hand.

you can also look at it from this point.


there not botting in there alliance that they like but they can have alt accounts that bot, your giving warnings to ALL the accounts botter's own give that they could get flag as a botter and removed from there main alliance because of it.

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lets give an example.

BoB has 5 accounts.

bob has 3 of thos accounts botting away in a anonymous corp in high sec.

bob plays 2 of these accounts in his corp hes a part of out in null. playing like normal.

well his bots get found and ALL 5 accounts are flaged.

now his playing accounts are flagged as botters and he is shamed for it and could possibly be kicked from his corp that hes part of on his none botting accounts.

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now you have it where if they bot they had best hope there corp/alliance doesn't care about bots.
or there botting could mes up there none botting accounts.

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lets go ahead and add one more layer on to this and go ahead and say even IF they biomass there players all new players on that account come out flaged.

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in the end its still just 1 more way to discourage it.


discouraging botting is JUST as important as stopping the botters we have now.

If CCP wants to reform the botter, the first strike needs to be a light one... as it is now...

After that sure... mark them. Either everyone here was a perfect kid and never did any wrong or... I mean come on.

< used to shoplift as a kid... was caught... never did it again.

Part of being caught the first time was, no record of it. Putting this into eve...

At this point IMO it is more worth not doing it again than once you been named... once you were named what do you have to lose?

If CCP names the bots (the first time) your marked... odds are that chars eve life is pretty much over... might as well bot it up... maybe even bot it up to RMT now because again... chars life is over.
If CCP does not name the bot (the first time) that char if they were going to reform, well... the char can go play eve as normal with no blacklash...

The reaction in the thread here for those who say mark... kinda proves the point... once you get a mark you are done IMO you might as well bot it up... or just biomass the char.

No mark gives you the chance to turn around, ONE chance.

And yes people are gona say well if you don't want to be marked don't start... very true I go back to the "I guess you were a perfect kid" doing no wrong (gov laws or parrents laws) and the fact CCP said they want to reform the bots not just remove them.

I can't see anything useful coming out of naming and shaming players.

However, I could see some sort of background checking service (paid for in whatever the monocle currency is or ISK) provided by CCP being useful to corp CEOs to help them vet new members.

It could start with infractions levied by CCP (botting and other instances of being naughty) and it could easily become an extremely comprehensive profile of the player in question. Of course, the more comprehensive the report, the more it will cost.

This feature could be limited to only corp CEOs and directors, but it could be open to all players and compliment their corp applications.

In that instance I meant seeking them out to recruit them (bringing their profits into the corp). Others would hunt them. Sorry.


Right now there is no real way to tell if someone is or has been a botter (not for the players), so yea, they gank anyone that they feel even might be. If you gave players a way to tell the difference yes, some might still just gank anyone they see (some will always do that). I'd bet a lot of ISK though that there would be a certain group that would only hunt those that had been "tagged", much like the anti-pirate corps that exist in game now. Only a trial would tell though.


That's an awful big leap in logic. Most people don't bot, the general assumption would be if you don't have the tag, you're probably one of those. If you start making leaps in logic like that I could assume almost anything I wanted to about you. You don't have a negative sec status. You're probably some griefing pirate that just ratted away his neg status! I mean comon... If people want to justify something they'll always find a way to do it. This doesn't give them any more or less of a way than they do now.


I'm rationalizing stuff? You just had an argument that went along the lines of "He doesn't have a tag, therefor he must be a botter". People will rationalize anything. Also, look at my history. I live in 0.0 and participate almost exclusively in fleet fights. I don't need or want a reason to gank anyone. Grow a spine? My ganking? My actions? My cheap kills? Talk about rationalizing stuff again... You make the assumption that just because I'm for something I must be an evil pirate killing hulks off the jita undock or something.

If people want an excuse to gank someone they'll make one. Or hell, it's Eve, they'll make none at all and just gank anyway. They've free to do that. They don't need a reason, therefor this doesn't give them any more or less of a reason than they have before.

The botter may be punished by CCP, but that doesn't mean that this punishment cannot be extended to the players. A pirate is "punished" by CCP by not allowing him to enter certain sec status systems, or a faction warfare player into certain other regions. However, those players may still be attacked or helped by other players as they see fit. Again, let the players decide, put the power in their hands.

If you think they need help getting reformed, sticking to the straight and narrow, start an organization designed to HELP people with those tags. I have no problem with that.

Awesome, I got not one answer on my post and instead people discuss about justice, false positives and what not. As if there were many laws in this game. Somebody has to mention of course the holocaust, Godwin's finest.

Meanwhile the botters, I named, had another 2 days of undisturbed business. Under this circumstance we do not need Scarlett letters.

Happy botting.

While im officially a nobody in eve, I've been involved in running various small corps over the years, both as a director & ceo, as-well as being rank & file in a few larger ones. In terms of spotting botters, I think this is a problem which largely only effects larger organizations where you're not able to get to know each and every person in the corp, as for smaller groups it very quickly becomes obvious if someone’s online & undocked but constantly unresponsive.

That said, from a leadership point of view, I’d be in favour of some kind of scarlet letter, even if it is hard to justify the benefit beyond “it'd nice to know if your letting scum in the door”.


one queston; when removing a botters assets, how do you currently deal with it? is it simply a case of purging all items that ever passed through their account regardless of where they have ended up? or do you use a more fine toothed comb to try and establish if there was actually any link between the players? if its a case of just nukeing everything from orbit,how many transactons does it cascade? is it the case that the person who directly delt with the botter looses out, or does it butterfly effect for everyone?

assuming everything gets nuked, then i'd say there's a fairly compelling case for a universal flag to warn people of the risk, if not then personally i favor an idea which was suggested early in the thread which i'll paraphrase

1. after the first offence, a flag should show up on the application should the player try to move corps, we don't want to ruin peoples in game reputation forever should they decide to go straight, so It should only show on new applications and only be for a period of time before clearing again (say 3 months)

2. on the 2nd offence, the flag should be doubled from whatever the first period of time was (in this example 6 months), also a mail should be sent to the ceo of their current corp informing them. While I appreciate this isn't perfect, the player is effectively in the last chance saloon, and it would seem only fair to warn the corp's leadership at this point that any assets / trust given to them might be about to go up in smoke.



this is probably outside the scope of the discussion, but just out of curiosity has a plan for dealing with a rise in people ebaying whole accounts once they're unable to recycle their bots been put in place? i know fools and their money are soon parted, but presumibly botters will start viewing accounts as disposable, and only ever fund them start to finish with plex's meaning the usuial worry of having someone else using your credit card to fund their eve habit goes away.

you mentioned at fanfest your going to be to require a valid email address, although creating throwaway addresses isn't hard (infact simply for convinence i use the gmail + trick to make it easy to differenciate between mails sent to my various accounts). have you considered requring a card be placed on file at signup, even if the game is then funded by plex? its a fairly common practace even on free trials for various other webservices and while not perfect (i'd imagine serial botters would take to using pre-paid cards) could potentially help in your quest to bag & tag the playerbase.

Purple letters are useless. You'd have noobie casuals who tried some old macro well flagged in hi sec mining for 7M per hour while whole RMT organizations which can't care the less about purple letters host legions of high profit bots in 0.0.

Of course those 0.0 bots are not as easily detected so they need manual investigation. That's why you can report them for weeks with nothing happening.