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My Apology

First post First post
Author
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3481 - 2012-03-28 16:26:45 UTC
I also would like to point out that Alex never slurs or stumble about. At 3:20 seconds of this video the following was said:

"I, uh, suppose I'm not drunk enough." - Alex

"No your not, I can hear your words clearly." - Someone in the audience or panel

Which is correct. His entire presentation was very understandable with no word slurring or anything that would be signs of being drunk. What everyone here is assuming is he must have been drunk to say what he did about making The Wis kill himself. Alex even spells his name out with clarity and making sure no one misspells it with the letter Z.
Magnus Orin
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3482 - 2012-03-28 16:27:51 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Magnus Orin wrote:
The Breadmaster wrote:
The CSM published by CCP

Excerpt from page 20 of the linked CCP document-

CSM REPRESENTATIVE CONDUCT

any behavior or actions considered being a material breach of the eula or tos
by a Csm representative is grounds for immediate dismissal and permanent
exclusion from all pending and future participation in the council. There are no
exceptions, regardless of the infraction. representatives are not only expected to
uphold the social contract that all society members are held accountable to, but
should also set a behavior standard for everyone else to follow.
____

This sounds pretty clear cut to me. Unless we don't play by these rules anymore?

"immediate dismissal and permanent exclusion"

Policies are created to insure all players are treated fairly and equally. We can't
begin making exceptions to one without eliminating the rule altogether.

What kind of publicity will EVE receive if he or any future player does commit
suicide? The media will look back on this incident and see how the company
handeled it which could open them up for future liability.

Any player regardless of alliance affiliation needs to understand the gravity of
this situation outside of the context of Eve.

This is a situation that could end Eve.


Still no breach of the TOS/EULA, which is required for your "immediate dismissal and permanent exclusion"

The end part, which discussion societal rules is completely up for interpretation, and doesn't seem partnered with above clause. The key word here is should.




I underlined the bit that you outrageously editorialized to make your leaky argument appear to hold water.


Again... CCP can arbitrarily ban anyone they want, including you. But why would they? For being a ****, out of game? You've obviously never been to Fanfest have you?
de4deye
Phantom Space
Space Madness.
#3483 - 2012-03-28 16:28:16 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
I also would like to point out that Alex never slurs or stumble about. At 3:20 seconds of this video the following was said:

"I, uh, suppose I'm not drunk enough." - Alex

"No your not, I can hear your words clearly." - Someone in the audience or panel

Which is correct. His entire presentation was very understandable with no word slurring or anything that would be signs of being drunk. What everyone here is assuming is he must have been drunk to say what he did about making The Wis kill himself. Alex even spells his name out with clarity and making sure no one misspells it with the letter Z.

That's because he wasn't drunk - he's just an asshat.
Lenrir Andven
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3484 - 2012-03-28 16:29:42 UTC
de4deye wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
I also would like to point out that Alex never slurs or stumble about. At 3:20 seconds of this video the following was said:

"I, uh, suppose I'm not drunk enough." - Alex

"No your not, I can hear your words clearly." - Someone in the audience or panel

Which is correct. His entire presentation was very understandable with no word slurring or anything that would be signs of being drunk. What everyone here is assuming is he must have been drunk to say what he did about making The Wis kill himself. Alex even spells his name out with clarity and making sure no one misspells it with the letter Z.

That's because he wasn't drunk - he's just an asshat.


Still mad about the 3 Titans we popped last weekend NC?
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#3485 - 2012-03-28 16:30:39 UTC
Kallynda Nai wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
de4deye wrote:
So I am assuming it is ok to tell Mittani to kill himself?


I woudln't if I were you, you'll probably get banned.

Too late. He's already encouraged others to kill The Mittani with fire.


What about earth and wind ?
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#3486 - 2012-03-28 16:30:43 UTC
Magnus Orin wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Quote:
How about you cite your sources and provide evidence of your claims with a link.



bloody hell READ THE TOS.

http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/terms.asp


points 25 and 26 ....


Namely

Quote:

25. CCP reserves the right to close, temporarily or permanently, any user’s account without advance notice as we deem necessary. Furthermore, we reserve the right to delete all user accounts or inventory of characters as warranted.

26. We reserve the right to ban any user from the game without refund or compensation.



Would it help if we could use a larger font?



Oh god you are dense. Of course CCP can take anyone's access to the game away. It's their game. No one is arguing that.

Which part of the TOS/EULA were specifically broken, to warrant such dismissal and exclusion?

Using your logic, I could argue that CCP should now permanently ban your account(s) simply because of your exceedingly low intelligence.


If my "exceedingly low intelligence" had led me to drink more alchohol than the cast of jersey shore combined and stagger up on a stage at fanfest before putting on a wizards hat and commanding my minions to harrass an eve player to suicide to the jeers of fellow beered-up lightweights then yes. I think CCP should propably consider banning my accounts and thats kinda the point.

But the point you are struggling to comprehend is that you don't need a specific written term in the tos to be broken to invoke the general "we reserve our right to boot someone out regardless" clause.

Its a similar convention landlords have in pubs.

Now you might well go into a tavern painted with blue and white stripes and leap up a table and show your behind to scandalized female guests and argue the publican has no right to evict you because there is no specific bylaw against stripey-mooning in that particular bar.

But you will be laughed at.
Just as you are being laughed at now.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#3487 - 2012-03-28 16:31:20 UTC
Talon SilverHawk wrote:
Kallynda Nai wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
[quote=de4deye]So I am assuming it is ok to tell Mittani to kill himself?


I woudln't if I were you, you'll probably get banned.

Too late. He's already encouraged others to kill The Mittani with fire.


What about earth and wind ? we should be encouraging equal opportunities on here...
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#3488 - 2012-03-28 16:31:22 UTC
Magnus Orin wrote:
The Breadmaster wrote:
The CSM published by CCP

Excerpt from page 20 of the linked CCP document-

CSM REPRESENTATIVE CONDUCT

any behavior or actions considered being a material breach of the eula or tos
by a Csm representative is grounds for immediate dismissal and permanent
exclusion from all pending and future participation in the council. There are no
exceptions, regardless of the infraction. representatives are not only expected to
uphold the social contract that all society members are held accountable to, but
should also set a behavior standard for everyone else to follow.
____

This sounds pretty clear cut to me. Unless we don't play by these rules anymore?

"immediate dismissal and permanent exclusion"

Policies are created to insure all players are treated fairly and equally. We can't
begin making exceptions to one without eliminating the rule altogether.

What kind of publicity will EVE receive if he or any future player does commit
suicide? The media will look back on this incident and see how the company
handeled it which could open them up for future liability.

Any player regardless of alliance affiliation needs to understand the gravity of
this situation outside of the context of Eve.

This is a situation that could end Eve.


Still no breach of the TOS/EULA, which is required for your "immediate dismissal and permanent exclusion"

The end part, which discussion societal rules is completely up for interpretation, and doesn't seem partnered with above clause. The key word here is should.




That's not exactly the entire EULA/TOS, is it? I'm pretty sure somewhere in the EULA there is a clause that says basically "if you adversely affect our service you're gone" which could be applied to someone farting and causing a room of Eve players to have to vacate until it dissipates.

Unlikely though it may be applied in such a fashion, Mitanni has done far worse either.

Don't ban me, bro!

RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3489 - 2012-03-28 16:31:24 UTC
Blatant Forum Alt wrote:
The Breadmaster wrote:
The CSM published by CCP

Excerpt from page 20 of the linked CCP document-

CSM REPRESENTATIVE CONDUCT

any behavior or actions considered being a material breach of the eula or tos
by a Csm representative is grounds for immediate dismissal and permanent
exclusion from all pending and future participation in the council. There are no
exceptions, regardless of the infraction. representatives are not only expected to
uphold the social contract that all society members are held accountable to, but
should also set a behavior standard for everyone else to follow.
____

This sounds pretty clear cut to me. Unless we don't play by these rules anymore?

"immediate dismissal and permanent exclusion"

Policies are created to insure all players are treated fairly and equally. We can't
begin making exceptions to one without eliminating the rule altogether.

What kind of publicity will EVE receive if he or any future player does commit
suicide? The media will look back on this incident and see how the company
handeled it which could open them up for future liability.

Any player regardless of alliance affiliation needs to understand the gravity of
this situation outside of the context of Eve.

This is a situation that could end Eve.


Digging through my mains mails, I have 14 direct death threats to me, 6 direct death threats to me and my immediate family, and 9 vague threats of vengance. I presume these will all be banned too, if CCP ban Mittens?


They should be, report them already and or call the local authorities.


**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3490 - 2012-03-28 16:31:45 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
I also would like to point out that Alex never slurs or stumble about. At 3:20 seconds of this video the following was said:

"I, uh, suppose I'm not drunk enough." - Alex

"No your not, I can hear your words clearly." - Someone in the audience or panel

Which is correct. His entire presentation was very understandable with no word slurring or anything that would be signs of being drunk. What everyone here is assuming is he must have been drunk to say what he did about making The Wis kill himself. Alex even spells his name out with clarity and making sure no one misspells it with the letter Z.


I too can spell a three letter word and not slur my words when drunk.
Abriael VonRosen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3491 - 2012-03-28 16:31:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Abriael VonRosen
baltec1 wrote:

The fact that most of them got it from an anti-GSF blog site and all of them were mailed by anti-Mittani white knighters has of corse nothing at all to do with it.


Can you prove that? I for one came across this unsightly mess by myself, and just chose not to report on it for the reasons I already explained. Gaming news reporting (and editorial writing) is an extremely competitive business. Writers scrape the bottom of the barrel for hours each days to find juicy morsels as this one. Believing that they would have not noticed by themselves is naive at best, disingenuous at worst.

Ultimately, Mittani had absolutely no problems with dragging CCP's name in the mud across the whole gaming press when it suited his agenda. He even boasted about it multiple times. As I already said, what goes 'round comes 'round. I doubt anyone has any right to complain about the press coming back and biting him in the rear.
Magnus Orin
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3492 - 2012-03-28 16:34:12 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
Magnus Orin wrote:
The Breadmaster wrote:
The CSM published by CCP

Excerpt from page 20 of the linked CCP document-

CSM REPRESENTATIVE CONDUCT

any behavior or actions considered being a material breach of the eula or tos
by a Csm representative is grounds for immediate dismissal and permanent
exclusion from all pending and future participation in the council. There are no
exceptions, regardless of the infraction. representatives are not only expected to
uphold the social contract that all society members are held accountable to, but
should also set a behavior standard for everyone else to follow.
____

This sounds pretty clear cut to me. Unless we don't play by these rules anymore?

"immediate dismissal and permanent exclusion"

Policies are created to insure all players are treated fairly and equally. We can't
begin making exceptions to one without eliminating the rule altogether.

What kind of publicity will EVE receive if he or any future player does commit
suicide? The media will look back on this incident and see how the company
handeled it which could open them up for future liability.

Any player regardless of alliance affiliation needs to understand the gravity of
this situation outside of the context of Eve.

This is a situation that could end Eve.


Still no breach of the TOS/EULA, which is required for your "immediate dismissal and permanent exclusion"

The end part, which discussion societal rules is completely up for interpretation, and doesn't seem partnered with above clause. The key word here is should.




That's not exactly the entire EULA/TOS, is it? I'm pretty sure somewhere in the EULA there is a clause that says basically "if you adversely affect our service you're gone" which could be applied to someone farting and causing a room of Eve players to have to vacate until it dissipates.

Unlikely though it may be applied in such a fashion, Mitanni has done far worse either.


I'd wager Eve probably saw a small increase in subscriptions because of this 'scandal'

If you can prove a financial loss for CCP, by all means, I love to read.
Temulkar Blaine
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3493 - 2012-03-28 16:34:21 UTC
Abriael VonRosen wrote:
Blatant Forum Alt wrote:

Digging through my mains mails, I have 14 direct death threats to me, 6 direct death threats to me and my immediate family, and 9 vague threats of vengance. I presume these will all be banned too, if CCP ban Mittens?


Did you report them? Because if you didn't, no, they won't. If you do, yes, they will.


Yep report them and they will get banned. Helicity copped a ban for a death threat although some might say that was politically motivated.
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3494 - 2012-03-28 16:36:12 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
I also would like to point out that Alex never slurs or stumble about. At 3:20 seconds of this video the following was said:

"I, uh, suppose I'm not drunk enough." - Alex

"No your not, I can hear your words clearly." - Someone in the audience or panel

Which is correct. His entire presentation was very understandable with no word slurring or anything that would be signs of being drunk. What everyone here is assuming is he must have been drunk to say what he did about making The Wis kill himself. Alex even spells his name out with clarity and making sure no one misspells it with the letter Z.


I too can spell a three letter word and not slur my words when drunk.


Watch Alex's entire presentation without assuming he must be drunk, then get back to me.
chumbucket
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#3495 - 2012-03-28 16:36:25 UTC
Did he man up and fall on his own sword? 10000 votes dosent make him immune to self inflicted political suicide. He acted like an idiot he should pay the price for it. I love all the goon emo about not doing anything wrong should he be banned..... no should he be CSM player rep...... no who would want his guy representing them for anything after his little drunken tyraide.......
Avila Cracko
#3496 - 2012-03-28 16:36:50 UTC
Giuliano Verti wrote:
Lt Pizi wrote:
Orkasm wrote:
Giuliano Verti wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
Here is a shortened video of what happened

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbYNLmtAMA

Here is the EVE Online TERMS OF SERVICE

http://community.eveonline.com/pnp/terms.as

Other players have been perma-banned for less than what Alex did.



No they haven't, Mittani did nothing ingame that would constitute a break of ToS or EULA.



are you in the denial state ?

csm represents eve and CCP, look it up theres more than the TOS/EULA

beside that , they can exclude you from their service WITHOUT giving any reason at all




And in CCP HQ... and in a CCP sanctioned event... and in a CCP live broadscast....


If you guys want to catch for every letter of TOS/EULA:
TOS/EULA saying that its applying for things on their server/web page/forums.
Stream came from their server/web page.

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3497 - 2012-03-28 16:37:34 UTC
Abriael VonRosen wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

The fact that most of them got it from an anti-GSF blog site and all of them were mailed by anti-Mittani white knighters has of corse nothing at all to do with it.


Can you prove that? I for one came across this unsightly mess by myself, and just chose not to report on it for the reasons I already explained. Gaming news reporting (and editorial writing) is an extremely competitive business. Writers scrape the bottom of the barrel for hours each days to find juicy morsels as this one. Believing that they would have not noticed by themselves is naive at best, disingenuous at worst.

Ultimately, Mittani had absolutely no problems with dragging CCP's name in the mud across the whole gaming press when it suited his agenda. He even boasted about it multiple times. As I already said, what goes 'round comes 'round. I doubt anyone has any right to complain about the press coming back and biting him in the rear.


Already had a few NPC alts boast about it in this thread and the other threadnought.
Avid Bumhumper
Beekeepers Anonymous
#3498 - 2012-03-28 16:37:45 UTC
Lt Pizi wrote:



***SNIP****


not proofread by them

LIVE is the key here , nothing they can do




Why do people keep arguing about what CCP can or can't do?

Unfortunatly in the REAL WORLD, perception is everything. Whether or not your personal lack of morals believes what Mittani did was right or wrong, the PERCEPTION is he embarrassed himself and the company he was representing.

CCP has to look at the perception and make a decision based on that, for the good of their business. Because regardless of how caught up you are in this whole Meta-gaming thing, it's CCP's business and they can do what they want. And as business people, they will do what they have to, to stay in business.

Had you bothered to read the TOS/EULA, you'd realize they don't even need a valid reason to toss you....


All the Bee tears in the world won't make a difference, If CCP thinks this could affect their business, he's toast.


My Tinfoil hat has been sugically implanted, so no,it is not for sale.....

Magnus Orin
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3499 - 2012-03-28 16:37:53 UTC
chumbucket wrote:
Did he man up and fall on his own sword? 10000 votes dosent make him immune to self inflicted political suicide. He acted like an idiot he should pay the price for it. I love all the goon emo about not doing anything wrong should he be banned..... no should he be CSM player rep...... no who would want his guy representing them for anything after his little drunken tyraide.......


Dude... He publicly apologized, gave the 'victim' 11billion isk, and apologized to him personally.

Put down your fucking noose already.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3500 - 2012-03-28 16:40:20 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:


Watch Alex's entire presentation without assuming he must be drunk, then get back to me.


I'll watch it knowing that he IS drunk because unlike you, I am not willing to lie to make a political point.