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My Apology

First post First post
Author
Frying Doom
#3201 - 2012-03-28 11:51:06 UTC
SamtheDog wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
TheButcherPete wrote:
Mittens resigning from the CSM CHANGES NOTHING.

Don't resign Mittani!

So you would like him ban hammered? Thats a bit harsh don't you think or are you suggesting CCP makes real life threats acceptable or is it that as the CSM chairman you believe he should be able to do what ever he wants without consequences?


I would prefer to see him face criminal prosecution for what he did. A ban is far too lenient.

I suspect Goons would glady let people suffer in RL if it benefitted them. Their postings on this thread seem to support this claim. Supporting cyber-bullying is not only incomprehensible, but it tells you a great deal about the general mores of the goons. Do what you can and literally see how far you can push someone over the edge at a fanfest.

The supportive comments are goons...which is hardly a surprise.

I guess life is considered cheap where you live.

Sam

Having never lived in another country I can't say if we value life more or less here. We don't let people walk around with guns. Cyber bullying has become a major problem, my kids spend the first 2 weeks of the year in their computer labs time learning about how to protect them selves from it and the other sleazier part of the internet.

Criminal prosecution is too far out of the realm of a forum post for me to even comment.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#3202 - 2012-03-28 11:52:02 UTC
Temulkar Blaine
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3203 - 2012-03-28 11:52:19 UTC
Karim alRashid wrote:
Temulkar Blaine,

Your posting clearly shows that not even you're not a lawyer, but also you don't have even a vague understanding of law.

also, lolUK.


Karim your posting clearly shows that you havent understood the serious nature of this issue and you dont even have the vaguest empathy for someone being harrassed. I pity you.
Implying Implications
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3204 - 2012-03-28 11:53:35 UTC
People are taking this too far. If it wasn't a goon who said this nobody would have a problem.
Riper GriM
From rust to dust
#3205 - 2012-03-28 11:53:58 UTC
I have actually started a proceeding for a legal complaint against Alexander.
Rolf Wesselius
Doomheim
#3206 - 2012-03-28 11:55:06 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:
Yeep wrote:

People who feel strongly about things tend to make the most noise, this shouldn't be news to you. And I've expressed my distaste at what The Mittani did at least once in this thread, you can go look for it if you want. Then again I could go dig up the posts where you claim your massive pile of internet forum likes makes you more important than everyone else (hint: you probably don't want me to do this).


I imagine you might like to deflect conversation but lets not. So you've expressed distaste at what Alexander Gianturco did at Fanfest. Do you believe he can continue as Chairman of the CSM and represent the game of eve online in the media and press given the current storm around cyber-bullying in a climate where the industry has already had to deal with the fallout from the Aris Bakhtanians "fighting game" issue?

If you'd like to step back from the trolling we can have a discussion of this certainly.



In my opinion the apology was enough, the isk from his personal wallet was more than needed but if he felt he had to do it then I respect that. If you're unwilling to accept the apology as sincere (which I don't think is the case from your earlier posts but other people will read this) then theres a good chance you're a pitchfork carrying lynchmob and nothing anyone says will convince you until The Mittani hangs.

I think if people with conflicting political agendas weren't trying their hardest to spread misinformation about this unfortunate event it would all have blown over days ago. Any sweeping game changes CCP has to make will be on their heads, not The Mittani's but again, nothing I say will convince them of that. I'd hope most of them are just too short sighted to see the likely consequences of their actions. Not to mention the extra harassment of the player in question that the publicity over this issue has caused (but thats good harassment right).

I also think (and theres plenty of evidence to support this right here in this thread) that a lot of the people calling for his resignation haven't even taken the time to think about the issues. Theres a massive bandwagon right now and a lot of people just like bandwagons.

Finally I think kneejerk resignations are bad for society as a whole despite how trendy they are right now. The Mittani is good at being the chair of the CSM and a good CSM chair makes for a healthier Eve. Sure he should be punished, I'd be pretty chill with a temp ban and never being allowed to speak on the Alliance panel again but his resignation won't solve any actual problems.

Look at all that effortposting >:(


Look Eve is know as a hive of scammers and griefers,Some people can deal with that.
But what Mittani did is even being talked about on kotaku, Even with his apology this Ruined alot if not all goodwill we had with the majority of the gaming community.
This could even **** over Dust 514.
Sony is heavy anti cyber bullying if CCP does not do something about this Sony could not allow Dust 514 on Sen.
Hell this could force heavy anti cyberbullying rules in eve if sony forces it on CCP.
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#3207 - 2012-03-28 11:55:24 UTC
Elena Melkan
Magellanic Itg
Goonswarm Federation
#3208 - 2012-03-28 11:55:35 UTC
SamtheDog wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
TheButcherPete wrote:
Mittens resigning from the CSM CHANGES NOTHING.

Don't resign Mittani!

So you would like him ban hammered? Thats a bit harsh don't you think or are you suggesting CCP makes real life threats acceptable or is it that as the CSM chairman you believe he should be able to do what ever he wants without consequences?


I would prefer to see him face criminal prosecution for what he did. A ban is far too lenient.

I suspect Goons would glady let people suffer in RL if it benefitted them. Their postings on this thread seem to support this claim. Supporting cyber-bullying is not only incomprehensible, but it tells you a great deal about the general mores of the goons. Do what you can and literally see how far you can push someone over the edge at a fanfest.

The supportive comments are goons...which is hardly a surprise.

I guess life is considered cheap where you live.

Sam

You are doing it wrong... you should post a proper complaint about The Mittani. Let me form one for you:

Proper Complaint wrote:
I want to share with you a few of the tentative conclusions I've reached regarding The Mittani's practices. And I stress the word "tentative," because the subject of what motivates The Mittani is tricky and complex. I begin with critical semantic clarifications. First, The Mittani's hatchet men are too lazy to deal with the relevant facts. They just want to sit back, fasten their mouths on the public teats, and casually forget that The Mittani keeps missing my point. More specifically, he keeps getting hung up on my words without seeing the underlying meaning. For example, when I say that The Mittani's flimflams are built on a backlash fueled by anger—in the form of resentment, spite, vengeance, envy, loss, and bitterness over declining status—on the part of the worst kinds of unstable wicked-types there are, The Mittani seems incapable of realizing that what I'm really getting at is that people used to think I was exaggerating whenever I said that his snow jobs represent an illegitimate, unilateral attempt to get people to vote against their own self-interests. After seeing The Mittani preach fear and ignorance these same people now realize that I wasn't exaggerating at all. In fact, they even realize that mass anxiety is the equivalent of steroids for The Mittani. If we feel helpless, The Mittani is energized and ramps up his efforts to usher in the rule of the Antichrist and the apocalyptic end times.

I'll go over that again: It wasn't so long ago that people like you and me were free to transcend local prejudices. Recently, that's become a lot harder to do. What happened that changed things so much? To put it briefly, The Mittani happened. By setting the wolf to mind the sheep, The Mittani has managed to get everyone to march in lockstep with his abusive epigones. If he sincerely believes that we can change the truth if we don't like it the way it is then he must be smoking something illegal. Should someone think that I am saying too much, I am not saying too much but much too little. For The Mittani has never disproved anything I've ever written. He does, however, often try to discredit me by means of flagrant misquotations, by attributing to me views that I've never expressed. In the end, if you want truth, you have to struggle for it. This letter represents my struggle, my attempt at announcing that we may need to picket, demonstrate, march, or strike to stop The Mittani before he can construct the spectre of a terrible armed threat. It is also my soapbox for informing the community at large that he should work with us, not step in at the eleventh hour and hog all the glory.

A desire to wear a cloak of status and prestige is the only explanation for The Mittani's otherwise inexplicable behavior. Sounds pretty flagitious, doesn't it? But is it any more so than The Mittani's vulgar memoirs? You may be wondering why insensitive converts to prætorianism (especially the pertinacious type) latch onto The Mittani's suggestions. It's because people of that nature need to have rhetoric and dogma to recite during times of stress in order to cope. That's also why The Mittani recently got caught red-handed trying to push the State towards greater influence, self-preservation, and totalitarianism and away from civic engagement, constituent choice, and independent thought. Well, surprise, surprise, surprise, as Gomer Pyle would say. In short, The Mittani's dodgy, self-absorbed endeavors have done much to seize control of the power structure. I propose, therefore, that we respond by doing what we can to transform our culture of war and violence into a culture of peace and nonviolence.


There. Now we all could create more of these complaints at:
http://www.pakin.org/complaint/

Because complaining is great, isn't it?
Riper GriM
From rust to dust
#3209 - 2012-03-28 11:56:01 UTC
Implying Implications wrote:
People are taking this too far. If it wasn't a goon who said this nobody would have a problem.


It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that it's a goon, it has something to do with the fact that it's the CSM leader.

Actually if this wasn't a goon, many more people would agree that it is a scandal. But because Goonschwitz happens to be the largest alliance in the game, all of its members are flying in here like flocks of hungry birds to defend their grey knight in his ****** armor.
Frying Doom
#3210 - 2012-03-28 11:56:24 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:

Nobody is arguing that UK law should have validity over a US citizen (which would a sentiment we'd appreciate your politicians would adopt in the case of our file-sharing students getting extradited by the way)

Wouldn't Icelandic law apply as that's where it happened. Not on the laws based from the persons country of origin?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Doddy
Excidium.
#3211 - 2012-03-28 11:56:45 UTC
Temulkar Blaine wrote:


Thats UK law on cyberbullying.

1. Alexander pursued a course of conduct that amounted to harrassment of another individual, as a former lawwyer he knows or ought to know that would be harrassment. Inebriation is not an excuse. So there is an argument that he has breached the protection from harrassment act in the uk.

2. Alexandeer used threatening and abusive language with an intent to cause harm whether in jest or not is not material. That is a breach of the criminal justice act.

3. Alexander sent a clear and threatening electronic message which is in breach of the malicious communication act.

4. Alexander sent a public commuciaction wth the purpose of causing annoyance and needless anxiety to another in breach of the communications act.




1) No he didn't, you could maybe wangle it to conspiracy but I seriously doubt it.
2) No he didn't
3) No he didn't
4) No he didn't

A malicious communication is a communication sent to someone specifically to cause harm to that person. (It is almost always only used in blackmail/extortion cases). The Mittani didn't do that. He didn't even tell others to do it. He did give information for others to do it if they wished wish i guess would make a weak conpiracy case if it had actually been acted upon (it wasn't) but only if the court actually considered what was sent harmful (highly doubtful).
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
#3212 - 2012-03-28 11:57:46 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
But it would be ridiculously short-sighted for CCP as a company to ignore the potential bad-press and impact that having the player representative chair of their game to remain unpunished for stomping his drunken way into a very big ticket media focus at the moment.
Bad press? Pfft. If CCP said "Tuff break. EvE is mean. Grow a spine." I think it'd be more of a media coup than bad press. Time to get rid of this politically correct candy-ass bullshit that plagues the world.

Oh.. and Road House and stuff....
TheBlueMonkey
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#3213 - 2012-03-28 11:58:16 UTC
Riper GriM wrote:
I have actually started a proceeding for a legal complaint against Alexander.


Let's hope you get your 15min of fame Straight
The F Word
Doomheim
#3214 - 2012-03-28 11:58:24 UTC
Has to much been made of this? Of course it has.

But it's a slow motion train wreck now, the tracks are laid and the carnage is coming whether justified or not. For a guy to brand himself as out to ruin your game via guerrilla tactics, he finds himself and the wrong end of the meta-gun.

And what does Mr. Alexander Gianturco have to show for all of it? His real name forever linked to a drunken image of himself at a video game convention, wearing a wizard hat, caught up in a cyber-bullying incident.

It's been said before that everyone has an agenda - or at least most do, and this guy has sabotaged himself with staggering efficiency.

I agree with most folks above, CCP's hands are tied.
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#3215 - 2012-03-28 11:58:25 UTC
Temulkar Blaine wrote:
Karim alRashid wrote:
Temulkar Blaine,

Your posting clearly shows that not even you're not a lawyer, but also you don't have even a vague understanding of law.

also, lolUK.


Karim your posting clearly shows that you havent understood the serious nature of this issue and you dont even have the vaguest empathy for someone being harrassed. I pity you.


You will have hard time convincing me that blowing up internet spaceships constitutes a harassment.

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos

Valearx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3216 - 2012-03-28 11:58:34 UTC
Temulkar Blaine wrote:
Karim alRashid wrote:
Temulkar Blaine,

Your posting clearly shows that not even you're not a lawyer, but also you don't have even a vague understanding of law.

also, lolUK.


Karim your posting clearly shows that you havent understood the serious nature of this issue and you dont even have the vaguest empathy for someone being harrassed. I pity you.


Tell me about the serious nature of this issue.

Also tell me about empathy.

Also kill yourself.
ExhumeToConsume
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3217 - 2012-03-28 11:58:50 UTC
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#3218 - 2012-03-28 11:59:22 UTC
Implying Implications wrote:
People are taking this too far. If it wasn't a goon who said this nobody would have a problem.


Why don't you try to put aside your goonish clan identity for a moment and lets talk as adult players of this game. I'm not saying Alexander Gianturco should be prosecuted in real or extradited to iceland or england or whatnot. I'm not saying eve online should become a politically-correct utopia where nobody says boo to a goose. I once caused a mini scandal myself for saying rude things about Verone when I was CSM chair for heaven's sake - I'm no saint.

But I didn't use my position on stage at fanfest as a bully pulpit to call for the harrassment of a fellow gamer. I think if we were to meet face to face and share a quiet pint and talk this over you'd agree it went too far and now Gianturco needs to resign for the good of the game.

A lot of goon players in this thread seem to be turning it into a persecution complex "its just because he was a goon". It really isn't. Its simply because he had a responsibility to represent this game as an ambassador to the watching media and he flunked it badly.

I personally am happy to see Mittani continue to be allowed to play this game. But there has to be some sanction for what he did and if he's not prepared to take responsibility and do the decent thing as Alexander Gianturco and resign then he needs to be pushed out.

Eve Online now needs to send a message that certain kinds of out of game harrassment and cyber bullying need to be stamped out.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#3219 - 2012-03-28 12:01:26 UTC


The UK student was jailed for posting he hoped somebody died.
Gianturco is on film calling for somebody to be harrassed into suicide.

If you can't draw a linkage between those stories then nothing much more I can do to educate you.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom

Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3220 - 2012-03-28 12:01:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Zagdul
Jade Constantine wrote:
Yeep wrote:
[quote=Jade Constantine
Its not about me. If you want to address the issue by all means do so.


You're trying to present your own opinions as those of the majority. Questioning your grounds to do that is entirely relevant.[/quote

So far there seems a majority in favour of Alexander Gianturco being forced to resign as expressed in the very many public threads on the issue. But once again, if you want to talk about the misdeeds of your leader I'm very happy to do so. Otherwise, run along.


There's a vocal minority who are shouting from the hills my friend. You could ignore 3-4 people on these forums and the whole topic becomes much more reasonable to have a discussion about. For example, yourself who fails to hear reason, even follow your own ideals which you've fought, died and killed for in New Eden. You've spent a lot of time and words in this thread knocking down a man who used his right of freedom to express himself in an inebriated state. You are among the vocal minority who spend a lot of effort on the smear campaign for a personal vendetta against someone who you've been waiting for the opportunity to do exactly this.

Jade, I thought you represented free thought, free speech and freedom as a whole. Aren't you going against the very things you've worked so hard to 'defend' in New Eden?

I'm so disappointed in you. You sir are a giant walking contradiction of your former self. No wonder your organization barely exists anymore. It's no wonder your own constituents have lost faith in you.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement