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My Apology

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Fenris Deka
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2441 - 2012-03-27 22:18:50 UTC
Doddy wrote:
Sunviking wrote:
That was a terrible apology, and so insincere.

You are only saying this to desperately try and stave off any impact it might have on your RL career in Law.


What career?


No kidding.
xXv1c10usXx
Alchemy Corp
#2442 - 2012-03-27 22:19:17 UTC
Lt Pizi wrote:
GallowsCalibrator wrote:
Kalathia Eginald wrote:
Abriael VonRosen wrote:
Ultimately the room of discussion is limited. The CSM grants a certain amount of personal visibility, influence and advantages. With the perks comes responsibility, and consequence for the breach of that responsibility needs to be unforgiving.

Now that the media got its hands on this mess (and mind you the same should happens if the media didn't, as it should be a matter of principle), the only way for the CSM to keep it's credibility is to remove the offender.

Do we seriously want to be publicly represented by someone that doesn't have the slight sense necessary not to get wasted before a televised panel he has to speak at, during an all expenses paid trip? That seems a rather mindboggling idea to me.


How many politicians have been caught with prossies, doing drugs, having an affair, and are still in their seats?

I'd rather be represented by someone who has made a mistake, is willing to admit it and learn from it, otherwise known as a human being, than some of the hollier than thou politicians we get. Whether or not he will learn form it is something that will have to be seen as until it is it is just conjecture that he will.

I can see both side of this argument, as I have no vested interest in either camp, and in the end what will happen will happen and we have to accept it or vote with our money.


This too is a good post.


this isnt politics and the csm isnt a democracy

ccp will do whats best for them , and imo that is the banhammer



Would that include the usage of the banhammer on your illegitimate self?
Abriael VonRosen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2443 - 2012-03-27 22:20:40 UTC
Kalathia Eginald wrote:

How many politicians have been caught with prossies, doing drugs, having an affair, and are still in their seats?


Not that many actually, especially between those that covered prominent positions, and the CSM chair is a very prominent position in its context.

Quote:
I'd rather be represented by someone who has made a mistake, is willing to admit it and learn from it


I'd rather be represented, in a future mandate, by someone who as made a large mistake and is willing to actually face its full consequences, instead of just apologizing and hoping in getting away with it with a wirstslap.
GallowsCalibrator
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2444 - 2012-03-27 22:21:05 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
Lt Pizi wrote:
GallowsCalibrator wrote:


Noooo, the silence is the fact that more level-headed approaches are being properly considered before anything happens. You know, like Seleene said earlier. Anything else is pretty much a piece of conjecture.


so true

but then his own corp/ally mates makes all that even worse for him and ccp by all this not even remotely funny posts


Yeah, not sure did I post it here? But in the tweets, Seleene said a few days will be the official statements.


Yeah, you've posted it. But, just to reaffirm:

Seleene
‏@Seleene_EVE

OFFICIAL: The CSM are discussing recent events and will issue a public statement after a few days. #tweetfleet #EveOnline #csm7 #csm6
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#2445 - 2012-03-27 22:22:08 UTC
Abriael VonRosen wrote:
Kalathia Eginald wrote:

How many politicians have been caught with prossies, doing drugs, having an affair, and are still in their seats?


Not that many actually, especially between those that covered prominent positions, and the CSM chair is a very prominent position in its context.

Quote:
I'd rather be represented by someone who has made a mistake, is willing to admit it and learn from it


I'd rather be represented, in a future mandate, by someone who as made a large mistake and is willing to actually face its full consequences, instead of just apologizing and hoping in getting away with it with a wirstslap.


It's rather hard to accept those consequences when they are yet to be determined don't you think?

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Li Ter
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#2446 - 2012-03-27 22:26:00 UTC
XavierVE wrote:
Sang-in Tiers wrote:
Is he trolling or is he not... He had a wizard hat on while talking about "The Wiz", coincidence?


His apology isn't a troll, but it's not sincere either. The initial reaction of "deal with it" was much more in line with what he'd like to say. He didn't realize how far this would blow up in terms of it being covered by mainstream gaming sites and figures this meandering apology will preserve his chairmanship and his account.

Knowing how CCP loves to cover for their golden boys, he's probably right.


also he knew all to well what he was doing since he created the slide of the mackinaw pilot before the alliance panel discussions ect, he knew what he was doing and he knew what he was going to say, ide still prefer if he stepped down tbh
Lt Pizi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2447 - 2012-03-27 22:26:14 UTC
xXv1c10usXx wrote:
Lt Pizi wrote:
GallowsCalibrator wrote:
Kalathia Eginald wrote:
Abriael VonRosen wrote:
Ultimately the room of discussion is limited. The CSM grants a certain amount of personal visibility, influence and advantages. With the perks comes responsibility, and consequence for the breach of that responsibility needs to be unforgiving.

Now that the media got its hands on this mess (and mind you the same should happens if the media didn't, as it should be a matter of principle), the only way for the CSM to keep it's credibility is to remove the offender.

Do we seriously want to be publicly represented by someone that doesn't have the slight sense necessary not to get wasted before a televised panel he has to speak at, during an all expenses paid trip? That seems a rather mindboggling idea to me.


How many politicians have been caught with prossies, doing drugs, having an affair, and are still in their seats?

I'd rather be represented by someone who has made a mistake, is willing to admit it and learn from it, otherwise known as a human being, than some of the hollier than thou politicians we get. Whether or not he will learn form it is something that will have to be seen as until it is it is just conjecture that he will.

I can see both side of this argument, as I have no vested interest in either camp, and in the end what will happen will happen and we have to accept it or vote with our money.


This too is a good post.


this isnt politics and the csm isnt a democracy

ccp will do whats best for them , and imo that is the banhammer



Would that include the usage of the banhammer on your illegitimate self?


lol if i did something even remotly like this , i would be suspennded already , or banned

Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume!
Kalathia Eginald
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2448 - 2012-03-27 22:26:45 UTC
Lt Pizi wrote:
this isnt politics and the csm isnt a democracy

ccp will do whats best for them , and imo that is the banhammer


You are both correct and incorrect in this . He was elected after all, though the company makes it technically a dictatorship.

Yes CCP will do what they see as appropriate, however your opinion of what it should be, and mine as well, is irrelevant to the matter. If he has broken whatever he has to agree to in his position he sould and I think will be sanctioned. However if he hasn't then no sanction shold be implimented.
Ai Shun
#2449 - 2012-03-27 22:27:56 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Actually drunkeness was rather expected, may that never change. He needs to learn how to handle his liquor better though.

The only real questions are:

Are Panel members at FanFest subject to the same restrictions on what they can say as people are in game or on the forums?
Are CSM members subject to the same restrictions on what they can say as people are in game or on the forums?
If so, does this apply at all times or only when acting in their official capacity as CSM members?

If the decision that they apply to anyone speaking at FanFest in person, or at all times to people on the CSM, then the normal rules should apply. Namely a ban whose length should be determined by the circumstance by CCP.

Stepping down from his position as chairman or from the CSM entirely is another matter, but I believe those decisions would be directly affected by the decisions made above... then appropriate PUN-ishments can be determined (if any).

(See, now they are going to be all confused again).


:laughs: Probably very confused. But it makes me wonder, we have a number of forum warriors pushing both sides of the equation here. I've already done what I felt was necessary in this situation. Now I'm more annoyed at the arrogance of Goonswarm and the way they are using numbers and 4chan style posting to try and drown out any criticism. I feel they have CCP by the balls and I'm interested in seeing what is going to come out of this.

So, my questions:

1) Is there anybody outraged by the actions of the Mittani who are voting with their money?
2) How would they handle the situation if they ever found themselves in his position?
GallowsCalibrator
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2450 - 2012-03-27 22:28:20 UTC
Li Ter wrote:
XavierVE wrote:
Sang-in Tiers wrote:
Is he trolling or is he not... He had a wizard hat on while talking about "The Wiz", coincidence?


His apology isn't a troll, but it's not sincere either. The initial reaction of "deal with it" was much more in line with what he'd like to say. He didn't realize how far this would blow up in terms of it being covered by mainstream gaming sites and figures this meandering apology will preserve his chairmanship and his account.

Knowing how CCP loves to cover for their golden boys, he's probably right.


also he knew all to well what he was doing since he created the slide of the mackinaw pilot before the alliance panel discussions ect, he knew what he was doing and he knew what he was going to say, ide still prefer if he stepped down tbh


Again, not excusing, it was still wrong; but I wish I had the crystal ball you're suggesting; I'd have avoided hitting on so many people with one!
Mana Potion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2451 - 2012-03-27 22:30:45 UTC
I guess what bugs me is that none of these people that are complaining, have anything to do with the situation... they are just jumping up and down because they have some preconceived notion about the Mittani. None of these "I don't accept your apology" responses mean a damn thing.
Abriael VonRosen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2452 - 2012-03-27 22:30:45 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

It's rather hard to accept those consequences when they are yet to be determined don't you think?


See, the problem is that a representative deserving of my respect would have already determined ad issued those consequences by himself. That's what resigning is for.

If he doesn't have the integrity and responsibility to do so, then the CSM or CCP will have to take that decision for him. Of course that'll look much worse.

If that won't happen, the EVE community will suffer a further image damage, as it'll be seen as the community represented by someone capable to act in such an aberrant way. The EVE community is already stigmatized as an unwelcoming and ruthless one, but so far that image has been limited to the in-game aspect. Letting it publicly bleed to the out-of-game is very, very dangerous ground.

As someone that's part of the gaming press, I know quite well that there are quite a few colleagues with all sorts of articles in store. The only way for the game and the community to avoid that kind of negative press is for them to distance themselves radically from the perpetrator, if he doesn't act responsibly by distancing himself.
GallowsCalibrator
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2453 - 2012-03-27 22:32:35 UTC
Abriael VonRosen wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

It's rather hard to accept those consequences when they are yet to be determined don't you think?


See, the problem is that a representative deserving of my respect would have already determined ad issued those consequences by himself. That's what resigning is for.

If he doesn't have the integrity and responsibility to do so, then the CSM or CCP will have to take that decision for him. Of course that'll look much worse.

If that won't happen, the EVE community will suffer a further image damage, as it'll be seen as the community represented by someone capable to act in such an aberrant way. The EVE community is already stigmatized as an unwelcoming and ruthless one, but so far that image has been limited to the in-game aspect. Letting it publicly bleed to the out-of-game is very, very dangerous ground.

As someone that's part of the gaming press, I know quite well that there are quite a few colleagues with all sorts of articles in store. The only way for the game and the community to avoid that kind of negative press is for them to distance themselves radically from the perpetrator, if he doesn't act responsibly by distancing himself.


Unfortunately we don't know that such decisions have already been made, either. Hence the need for patience on all of this; throwing more fuel on the fire isn't going to put it out any quicker.
Kalathia Eginald
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2454 - 2012-03-27 22:32:39 UTC
Abriael VonRosen wrote:
Kalathia Eginald wrote:

How many politicians have been caught with prossies, doing drugs, having an affair, and are still in their seats?


Not that many actually, especially between those that covered prominent positions, and the CSM chair is a very prominent position in its context.


Clinton, a number of MPs in the UK either having affairs, voting against certain legislation even when they theselves are in the closet seeing rent boys, the PM of an EU country or two. I could go on.

Abriael VonRosen wrote:
Quote:
I'd rather be represented by someone who has made a mistake, is willing to admit it and learn from it


I'd rather be represented, in a future mandate, by someone who as made a large mistake and is willing to actually face its full consequences, instead of just apologizing and hoping in getting away with it with a wirstslap.


Your presumptpon is that he has broken whatever someone in his position has to agree to and so will be sanctioned for that behvaiour. Then if he is deserving of a sanction that he will not get it.

If that is a slap on the wrist as you call it is immaterial, the punishment has to match what is stated to happen in such a situation, which may not be a ban, it could be a suspension. Anything beyond what the policies are in such a case become vengence and is not the right way to go.
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2455 - 2012-03-27 22:34:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Yeep
Abriael VonRosen wrote:

See, the problem is that a representative deserving of my respect would have already determined ad issued those consequences by himself. That's what resigning is for.


The world would be a lot better place if there were less kneejerk resignations from people who are otherwise very good at their jobs. How many talented and dedicated politicians have we lost to affairs?

Edit: And how about we ask HP how they're doing since firing their CEO over his affair?
Lt Pizi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2456 - 2012-03-27 22:35:52 UTC
Mana Potion wrote:
I guess what bugs me is that none of these people that are complaining, have anything to do with the situation... they are just jumping up and down because they have some preconceived notion about the Mittani. None of these "I don't accept your apology" responses mean a damn thing.


if all else fails , read his own post ...

he (and me, and many other ) thinks such behavior is not acceptable

and he will resign, with is a move i honor

no need to defense him , he already has accepted his error and the consequences resulting out of it




Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume!
Jita Alt666
#2457 - 2012-03-27 22:36:01 UTC
Lets keep posting so this thread overtakes the WIS thread and thus demonstrates that players are more interested in space drama than dressing up.
Voull
Visional
#2458 - 2012-03-27 22:36:22 UTC
I'm embarassed to tell people I play this game now
Alaxen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2459 - 2012-03-27 22:37:52 UTC
L00B wrote:
So you missed the part where it was the ALLIANCE presentations? Shocking that something missed your laser intellect and complete understanding of events. Since you think the panel was a CSM thing, let's just hammer a bit here, smash that bit in there... ahh! That's better, now reality suits your version of events!


Alexander Gianturco aka The Mittani aka Mittens aka Goonswarm Leader aka CSM Chair etc etc.

It's all the same guy. He's just desperately trying to sacrifice one of his personas off so that he can save the others. "I was drunk! That wasn't the real me! I'm a nice guy the rest of the time! Erm...".

Or are we now saying that he's a sociopath, sadist and has multiple personality disorder?

He's been acting this way for years. A leopard doesn't change its spots overnight, no matter how many nice words he can come up with. Is it more likely he suddenly realized how much harm he was causing other people, or how much damage he had caused himself? Even though he's spent years torturing others for his own amusement, he suddenly realizes *now* that this is a bad thing? This epiphany is just coincidence? Really?

He's just looking out for himself. Same as ever. All he's interested in right now is damage mitigation. Minimizing the consequences of his unfortunate actions. That's all.
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#2460 - 2012-03-27 22:38:14 UTC
Voull wrote:
I'm new to this game but can tell that if this was anyone else, they would have been banned already.


Perhaps you should refrain from posting opinions until you are less new to this game?

I have been told on forums to, quote, "drink bleach", end of quote and the poster wasn't banned.

Of course, not in a single moment have I thought that "drink bleach" bore any in-game semantic, nor that the person, who said that, actually wanted me to perform this action in real life.

Of course, I'm also a political nobody, so there wasn't anyone to blow everything out of the proportion across the nerd news sites and try to extract some political dividends from that.

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos