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My Apology

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David Cedarbridge
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2181 - 2012-03-27 19:18:07 UTC
Eidric wrote:
I think my post will get buried fast in this avalanche but here are my 2 cents:

- Did i vote for him - No

- Did he screw up during alliance panel - Yes

- Does he need to somehow fix his mistakes - Yes

- Does he need to leave the chairman position - No


Frankly leaving CSM he would undermine the trust of thousand of people voting for him. Get him apologize to The Wis - in such a way so Wis would actually post on forums and says all is forgiven. But do not let him leave CSM.

While i do not condone many of his policies i am perfectly fine with him as chairman.

Most of the people yelling "Resign!" say it not because they think this would somehow make situation resolve itself. They yell it because it fits their own needs. They care about "The Wis" as much as general public does if not less. Because for them "The Wis" is not a person its a tool to get Mittani off the CSM.





Not empty quoting.
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2182 - 2012-03-27 19:19:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Eidric wrote:
I think my post will get buried fast in this avalanche but here are my 2 cents:

- Did i vote for him - No

- Did he screw up during alliance panel - Yes

- Does he need to somehow fix his mistakes - Yes

- Does he need to leave the chairman position - No


Frankly leaving CSM he would undermine the trust of thousand of people voting for him. Get him apologize to The Wis - in such a way so Wis would actually post on forums and says all is forgiven. But do not let him leave CSM.

While i do not condone many of his policies i am perfectly fine with him as chairman.

Most of the people yelling "Resign!" say it not because they think this would somehow make situation resolve itself. They yell it because it fits their own needs. They care about "The Wis" as much as general public does if not less. Because for them "The Wis" is not a person its a tool to get Mittani off the CSM.




i bet a few billions of isk could sway The Wis to put up a generous communique Blink
It would be even more funny if there is a counter offer from another party for not so generous communique Lol
Maybe its time for all those anti mittani alliances to start opening up their wallet to The Wis Shocked
Inovy Dacella
Empire Assault Corp
Dead Terrorists
#2183 - 2012-03-27 19:19:54 UTC
Magnus Orin wrote:
Florio wrote:
But fanfest events showed that Alex Gianturco does not have the qualities that CCP must demand for an out-of-game CSM position: his behaviour was unacceptable and his ingame achievements (or number of fans) should not excuse him.


What the fuck does this have to do with anything? He would have been on that stage had he been on the CSM 6 or not. He was there representing Goonswarm Federation, an alliance in the spaceship game Eve Online.

And since when does CCP demand that CSMs have certain qualities aside from being over 18 and willing to give out their real name?


Magnus Orin, you just made the dumbest comment possible! You are doing more damage to your beloved leader than you can comprehend.
Hikaru Kuroda
Extheria
#2184 - 2012-03-27 19:21:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Hikaru Kuroda
We do not need your apology. It seems that all you want is to regain your honour with the community since you're the CSM Chairman.

Instead, send a private message to the player you abused asking for forgiveness, and let he decide.

It would be more correct.
Josef Djugashvilis
#2185 - 2012-03-27 19:22:07 UTC
Given that mittens has admitted a lapse in judgment and done the honourable thing by apologizing, should the Goons consider acting in the same vein by asking him to quit all his roles in their organization?

This is not a signature.
Magnus Orin
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2186 - 2012-03-27 19:22:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Magnus Orin
RougeOperator wrote:
L00B wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
Magnus Orin wrote:
Florio wrote:
But fanfest events showed that Alex Gianturco does not have the qualities that CCP must demand for an out-of-game CSM position: his behaviour was unacceptable and his ingame achievements (or number of fans) should not excuse him.


What the fuck does this have to do with anything? He would have been on that stage had he been on the CSM 6 or not. He was there representing Goonswarm Federation, an alliance in the spaceship game Eve Online.





You should read the rules of running for CSM mate.

Thanks for admitting he dosent represent the players though.


So you missed the part where it was the ALLIANCE presentations? Shocking that something missed your laser intellect and complete understanding of events. Since you think the panel was a CSM thing, let's just hammer a bit here, smash that bit in there... ahh! That's better, now reality suits your version of events!



So he is not the chair of the CSM just because he was on an alliance panel?

He is a CSM chair 24/7, he was a CSM chair while on the alliance panel.

He just also happens to be an Alliance leader.

Not the other way around.



Oh god.... this is not real-world politics. He is an elected spaceship dude that gets to talk to CCP about ideas to make this space ship game better from time to time.

He's not a fucking Congressman. He's not a fucking Member of a Parliament. He's a dude who likes to blow up other people space ships in a video game and be an ass about it. I think a good percentage of the population fall into that category.

Put your goddamn noose down.
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#2187 - 2012-03-27 19:23:52 UTC
Eidric wrote:
I think my post will get buried fast in this avalanche but here are my 2 cents:

- Did i vote for him - No

- Did he screw up during alliance panel - Yes

- Does he need to somehow fix his mistakes - Yes

- Does he need to leave the chairman position - No


Frankly leaving CSM he would undermine the trust of thousand of people voting for him. Get him apologize to The Wis - in such a way so Wis would actually post on forums and says all is forgiven. But do not let him leave CSM.

While i do not condone many of his policies i am perfectly fine with him as chairman.

Most of the people yelling "Resign!" say it not because they think this would somehow make situation resolve itself. They yell it because it fits their own needs. They care about "The Wis" as much as general public does if not less. Because for them "The Wis" is not a person its a tool to get Mittani off the CSM.


- Does his apology somehow fix his mistakes? - No

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
stoicfaux
#2188 - 2012-03-27 19:24:17 UTC
Magnus Orin wrote:

This is not real world politics. This is a fucking video game.

/facepalm

Since when are real world politics not allowed in a video game? Whenever you have three or more people doing something together, you have politics. Heck, this "video game" even has huge RMT operation(s) in the real world.

"Real world politics" kicked in hard when the scandal was streamed publicly to the world and when the story hit the various gaming news sites. 10,058 votes out of 59,109 votes cast out of 355,436 eligible Eve voters out of millions of MMO gamers isn't that impressive in the context of public opinion. To add further insignificance to the 10,058 vote "mandate", there are "super-voters" who vote with millions of dollars, namely CCP business managers (Eve, Dust, WoD,) potentially Sony business managers (needed for Dust,) and CCP's lawyers. Never mind the potential of politicians, activist groups and the mainstream media getting involved, all of whom can easily trump a 10,058 vote "mandate."

Mittani has (inadvertently) gone from "destroying *your* game" to "destroying *the* game." The rank and file seriously need to get behind Mittani's apology and try to generate some public *out of game* good will instead of further inflaming people against Mittani and the Goons in general with bad spam posting.


Finally, the bad boys and girls of Eve created enemies, enemies who probably took advantage of a couple of PR slip-ups to take down Mittani. Big deal. The Goons will still exist. You don't need a Goon CSM Chair to stir up trouble in the sandbox. Taking a year off from the CSM isn't going to cause the downfall of the Goons.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Kara Roideater
#2189 - 2012-03-27 19:25:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Kara Roideater
Yeep wrote:
Kara Roideater wrote:

I don't think 'conversely' is the word you're after. The precise point is we don't know what will happen, which means such actions are a gamble with someone's well-being. I don't think 'internal consistency' is really the phrase you need either since you haven't pointed out any inconsistency but do please continue to throw arbitrary words and phrases into sentences. You know, monkeys and typewriters and all that ... you might put together something sensible somewhere down the line by accident.


My point was we shouldn't be completely paralyzed into inaction because someone might be upset enough at something we do to kill themselves. Should we remove non-consentual pvp from Eve in case it upsets someone? What about scams? What if someone builds their entire sense of self worth around a terrible idea they post in features and ideas (its a trick question, all F&I posts are terrible)? Should we not be allowed to criticize it because they might kill themselves?

Suicide is tragic and encouraging someone to kill themselves is also bad but in this case there was no suicide and if people keep sensationalizing things CCP will be forced by the public outcries of people who will never play Eve to make it a lesser game.


None of your examples parallel what the Mittani did. He didn't engage in non-consensual pvp, or scam someone or just criticise someone. In all those circumstances it might well be reasonable to claim that such actions, which constitute integral parts of the game, shouldn't be constrained by someone's claims about their health, especially if those claims are directed at stopping parts of the legitimate action of the game. What he did was stand up in public, out of the game, as an influential figure in the eve community and mock someone for their claims about their real life mental state before giving out that person's name and then encouraging other people to pursue him, explicitly in the context of his self-identification as someone who had considered taking his own life and with the implication that such actions might cause him to do so. That is not an integral part of the game and preventing such actions in future would have no negative effect on game-play and nor would it constrain any reasonable behaviour.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2190 - 2012-03-27 19:25:33 UTC
Magnus Orin wrote:


Oh god.... this is not real-world politics. He is an elected spaceship dude that gets to talk to CCP about ideas to make this space ship game better from time to time.

He's not a fucking Congressman. He's not a fucking Member of a Parliament. He's a dude who likes to blow up other people space ships in a video game and be an ass about it. I think a good percentage of the population fall into that category.

Put your goddamn noose down.



Then it shouldn't be a big deal for him to step down.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Magnus Orin
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2191 - 2012-03-27 19:26:14 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Magnus Orin wrote:

This is not real world politics. This is a fucking video game.

/facepalm

Since when are real world politics not allowed in a video game? Whenever you have three or more people doing something together, you have politics. Heck, this "video game" even has huge RMT operation(s) in the real world.

"Real world politics" kicked in hard when the scandal was streamed publicly to the world and when the story hit the various gaming news sites. 10,058 votes out of 59,109 votes cast out of 355,436 eligible Eve voters out of millions of MMO gamers isn't that impressive in the context of public opinion. To add further insignificance to the 10,058 vote "mandate", there are "super-voters" who vote with millions of dollars, namely CCP business managers (Eve, Dust, WoD,) potentially Sony business managers (needed for Dust,) and CCP's lawyers. Never mind the potential of politicians, activist groups and the mainstream media getting involved, all of whom can easily trump a 10,058 vote "mandate."

Mittani has (inadvertently) gone from "destroying *your* game" to "destroying *the* game." The rank and file seriously need to get behind Mittani's apology and try to generate some public *out of game* good will instead of further inflaming people against Mittani and the Goons in general with bad spam posting.


Finally, the bad boys and girls of Eve created enemies, enemies who probably took advantage of a couple of PR slip-ups to take down Mittani. Big deal. The Goons will still exist. You don't need a Goon CSM Chair to stir up trouble in the sandbox. Taking a year off from the CSM isn't going to cause the downfall of the Goons.


Hyperbole much?
Magnus Orin
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2192 - 2012-03-27 19:27:47 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
Magnus Orin wrote:


Oh god.... this is not real-world politics. He is an elected spaceship dude that gets to talk to CCP about ideas to make this space ship game better from time to time.

He's not a fucking Congressman. He's not a fucking Member of a Parliament. He's a dude who likes to blow up other people space ships in a video game and be an ass about it. I think a good percentage of the population fall into that category.

Put your goddamn noose down.



Then it shouldn't be a big deal for him to step down.


Are you doing this for the 'victim' or are you doing this because you hate The Mittani?
Temulkar Blaine
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2193 - 2012-03-27 19:29:36 UTC
Mittens deliberatly cultivated a position as the public face of the eve player base in the gaming press. He wanted a profile to fit his ego so whored himself to everybody and anybody last year as the public face of us as players because of his position in the CSM. He cant have it both ways he got his face in the forums of the wider gaming press and enjoyed the attention it gave him. He wanted to be the public face of us players, he wanted the proffile, he wanted to be seen as an ubercool spaceship politician. Well now the chickens have come home to roost he has to take the fall.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2194 - 2012-03-27 19:30:40 UTC
Magnus Orin wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
Magnus Orin wrote:


Oh god.... this is not real-world politics. He is an elected spaceship dude that gets to talk to CCP about ideas to make this space ship game better from time to time.

He's not a fucking Congressman. He's not a fucking Member of a Parliament. He's a dude who likes to blow up other people space ships in a video game and be an ass about it. I think a good percentage of the population fall into that category.

Put your goddamn noose down.



Then it shouldn't be a big deal for him to step down.


Are you doing this for the 'victim' or are you doing this because you hate The Mittani?



Im doing this for EvE and all the players of eve yet to come.

I never made my arguments about a specific victim. Its about the behavior that is unacceptable to such a level that an apology is insufficient.

Its about the next person that might not be stable enough to not be pushed to far.

Try actually reading my posts.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Murrior
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2195 - 2012-03-27 19:31:19 UTC
I've put on some weight lately. Not in any digusting amount, but it does annoy me.

The weather is getting better finally and while I enjoy winter as much as the rest of the seasons, I've had enough of it this year. Spring is finally here and that makes me feel better.
DaiTengu
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2196 - 2012-03-27 19:33:13 UTC
Temulkar Blaine wrote:
Mittens deliberatly cultivated a position as the public face of the eve player base in the gaming press. He wanted a profile to fit his ego so whored himself to everybody and anybody last year as the public face of us as players because of his position in the CSM. He cant have it both ways he got his face in the forums of the wider gaming press and enjoyed the attention it gave him. He wanted to be the public face of us players, he wanted the proffile, he wanted to be seen as an ubercool spaceship politician. Well now the chickens have come home to roost he has to take the fall.


Find me one quote from him where he says he represents the ENTIRE EVE COMMUNITY.

Go ahead, I'll wait.






You can't?

It's because he didn't. He's clearly said he stands for his constituents. Those people who specifically voted for him. Quit making **** up.
L00B
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2197 - 2012-03-27 19:34:11 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:


Its about the next person that might not be stable enough to not be pushed to far.

Try actually reading my posts.



Oh, we're reading them. You're talking about defending someone that may or may not exist, but may definitely exist in some version of the future that has or has not come true yet.

In other words, it's hypothetical bullshit.
Metal Dude
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2198 - 2012-03-27 19:36:04 UTC
The real questions is why is anyone suppressed that the leader, who publicly and privately encourages and even demands the retards under his command to constantly mock people in game and real life would behave differently if there are no reproductions for doing so? CCP is to blame here once again for allowing it for so long. CCP deserves to be ridiculed in every gaming magazine for allowing this idiot to be selected representing the player based and bending over at his every demand. Serves you ******* right. Until CCP starts acting like it cares about it’s players, all this public talk and apologies and concerns for its player base is just ******* joke. Actions speak louder than words and CCP has no balls or morals to take any action against the tool that has been doing this kind of **** for years without even a slap on the wrist.
Prince Kobol
#2199 - 2012-03-27 19:36:11 UTC
DaiTengu wrote:
Temulkar Blaine wrote:
Mittens deliberatly cultivated a position as the public face of the eve player base in the gaming press. He wanted a profile to fit his ego so whored himself to everybody and anybody last year as the public face of us as players because of his position in the CSM. He cant have it both ways he got his face in the forums of the wider gaming press and enjoyed the attention it gave him. He wanted to be the public face of us players, he wanted the proffile, he wanted to be seen as an ubercool spaceship politician. Well now the chickens have come home to roost he has to take the fall.


Find me one quote from him where he says he represents the ENTIRE EVE COMMUNITY.

Go ahead, I'll wait.






You can't?

It's because he didn't. He's clearly said he stands for his constituents. Those people who specifically voted for him. Quit making **** up.


Yeah.. the second external Internet Sites reported him as being a CSM Council Member and CSM Chairman he stands for the Eve Community.

Who he stands for on the Eve Forums doesn't mean **** in this case.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2200 - 2012-03-27 19:37:20 UTC
L00B wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:


Its about the next person that might not be stable enough to not be pushed to far.

Try actually reading my posts.



Oh, we're reading them. You're talking about defending someone that may or may not exist, but may definitely exist in some version of the future that has or has not come true yet.

In other words, it's hypothetical bullshit.



We have a living breathing example of Alex calling for someone to be harassed to a real life death. Its no longer a hypothetical. EvE is only barley dodging a bullet on this because we caught it before it had real world ramifications.

Its real and staring us in the face at this moment.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **