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CSM 7 - We Should Not Accept This Behavior!!

First post First post
Author
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2012-03-27 05:00:52 UTC
Darius III wrote:
Nothing but removal from the CSM will show that CCP cares about this issue. What would have turned out to be possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars in free good publicity for CSM now turns out to be PR nightmare and unmitigated disaster for our whole community. Just step down and be done with it.


This man knows what he's talking about when it comes to punishments that warrant removal from the CSM.
Scooter McCabe
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2012-03-27 05:17:31 UTC
Darius III wrote:
Nothing but removal from the CSM will show that CCP cares about this issue. What would have turned out to be possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars in free good publicity for CSM now turns out to be PR nightmare and unmitigated disaster for our whole community. Just step down and be done with it.


You have the lotion, tissues and ostrich feather by the computer if that happens don't you?
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#43 - 2012-03-27 05:40:46 UTC
Darius III wrote:
Nothing but removal from the CSM will show that CCP cares about this issue. What would have turned out to be possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars in free good publicity for CSM now turns out to be PR nightmare and unmitigated disaster for our whole community. Just step down and be done with it.


Thanks for joining my call for action!

Issler
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#44 - 2012-03-27 05:43:17 UTC
Wolodymyr wrote:
Blawrf McTaggart wrote:
give it thirty seconds and darius III's fuckgoons detector will go off.
Oh come on now I think you might be exaggerating a little there....

Darius III wrote:
Nothing but removal from the CSM will show that CCP cares about this issue. What would have turned out to be possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars in free good publicity for CSM now turns out to be PR nightmare and unmitigated disaster for our whole community. Just step down and be done with it.

.... oh well, shine on you beautiful butthurt diamond.

Also Issler welcome to the harsh realities of the rest of eve that isn't highsec. May your own butthurt confirm every negative stereotype I have ever heard about carebears.


I've spent plenty of time outside high sec and even a "high sec care bear" can spot someone being an asshat and crossing the line of all reasonable standards of behavior.

Sorry your hero mittens threw anything he ever did good away in one act of absolute stupidity.

Issler
Arkady Vachon
The Gold Angels
Sixth Empire
#45 - 2012-03-27 05:53:33 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Darius III wrote:
Nothing but removal from the CSM will show that CCP cares about this issue. What would have turned out to be possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars in free good publicity for CSM now turns out to be PR nightmare and unmitigated disaster for our whole community. Just step down and be done with it.


Thanks for joining my opportunistic ploy to increase my own power!

Issler



Fixed that for you.

Nothing Personal - Just Business...

Chaos Creates Content

Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#46 - 2012-03-27 06:04:34 UTC
Arkady Vachon wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Darius III wrote:
Nothing but removal from the CSM will show that CCP cares about this issue. What would have turned out to be possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars in free good publicity for CSM now turns out to be PR nightmare and unmitigated disaster for our whole community. Just step down and be done with it.


Thanks for being the first CSM to step up can call this behavior what it was! Flat out unacceptable

Issler



Jumped in to show mittens I am a loyal lap dog!! Bark Bark!!!!


Right,

This is about not letting some very bad behavior undo all the gains the CSM has made in gaining player support.

And pro-mittens trolls will just make the anti-mittens backlash even greater.

I am still questioning where the other CSM 7 are on this, this should be a unanimous call for at a minimum censure.

Folks that just voted, ask yourself why your candidates haven't joined this protest!

Issler
Revolution Rising
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2012-03-27 06:07:46 UTC
I have to agree, you and I - especially during voting week (hey what happens in voting week stays in voting week) - haven't agreed on much, but we agree on this.

This kind of predatory behavior shouldn't be tolerated.

It's akin to watching a Rodney King tape - the fact that the beating was psychological and not physical doesn't make it any less evil.

CCP shouldn't be just sitting on the sidelines saying "Oh the EULA and TOS weren't breached" on this one either.

.

michaelthered
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-03-27 06:11:16 UTC
consequences on this one should be of the real world grown ass variety.....
Frying Doom
#49 - 2012-03-27 06:13:20 UTC
I don't think this will even be anything to do with the CSM7 except The Mittani himself of course, CCP is getting further in the whole as time goes on with less choices. The only thing that could make this worse now was if a real news agency picked up the story to fill a slow news day.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

michaelthered
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-03-27 06:19:27 UTC
how was a prepubescent mouthbreather allowed to speak on behalf of this game in the first place?
Yuki 0nna
The White Rose Conventicle
#51 - 2012-03-27 06:30:53 UTC
CCP should take this opportunity to lose TheMitanni, who has long fomented and exploited hatred of high sec players, especially miners, as persons. "I have found the average hisec dweller to be truly execrable." This recent outburst was in no way a departure from his usual behavior and "leadership." It merely brings into focus an ugly element in EVE that has got way out of hand recently, thanks in no small part to TheMittani.

This incident reminds me, in may ways, of the PR disaster of the last Alliance Tournament, for which CCP, ready to impress its then recently announced Sony partner, had even managed to lineup some genuine advertisers, only to discover that player arrogance had turned a potentially dramatic virtual "World Cup Final" into a pathetically staged World Wide Wrestling Federation match. How many times does CCP have to take a hit like this before it wakes up to the fact that too many members of its veteran player base, including many it coddles closest, are little but a millstone around its neck.
Highauger's animated corpse
Jove Observation And Neutrality Negotiations Act
#52 - 2012-03-27 06:32:11 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Highauger's animated corpse wrote:
Isslers 1st post in : The Office of the Chairman: A ~chill place~ for constituent issues

Issler Dainze wrote:
Have you stopped beating your wife in the wormholes you hate so much

No, seriously, no actual questions from me at the moment but I think you doing this thread is a great idea, I hope you get some good questions

Issler


+1 for a balanced fair discourse.

Scumbag


People doing good things can loose their way and screw up. And when they do they need to "own it" as Mittens said repeatedly in the alliance panel.

Issler


Fair enough, respect.

And you have recognised elsewhere his apology. What has been asked is 'is that enough'
that's a different and valid question. On this?, I would take the movement to Crucible, the efforts on monoclegate
and the fact that the best possible penance would be CSM chair into consideration. Let's say it straight, chair is a
very difficult job, and this will be awkward in that role for a long time. I wouldn't want to do it.

For those who missed the apology....


The Mittani wrote:
This has been hanging over my head since Thursday when I stumbled away from the Alliance Panel with a vague sense that I had done something horrible. I didn't know the extent of how much of a shitheel I had been until today, when footage of the presentation went up. As many of you now know, I gave out the in-game character name of a Mackinaw miner if anyone had wanted to blow him up - except that I was so smashed that I didn't recall exactly what I said (as anyone who was there can tell you). When I came to the forums the other day and saw threads complaining about my behavior - not remembering what I'd said - I assumed that I was enduring the usual anti-Goonswarm trolls, and posted something like "deal with it~" in my usual "The Mittani" way.

Then I landed, and saw the article listing my actual quote.

Christ.

I feel absolutely ashamed of my behavior at the Alliance Panel. It's one thing to play a villain in an online roleplaying game - when I post on these forums or on twitter, I usually do so as 'The Mittani', and do my level best to convince everyone that I'm an unrepentant space villain, as that kind of facade provides an in-game advantage to me and my alliance. But I am not that character in real life, as anyone who has met me can attest. I went way, way, /way/ past the line on Thursday night by mocking the Mackinaw miner at a real-life event. I, as a person, am not the entity that I play in EVE; I am not actually a sociopath or a sadist, and I certainly don't want people to kill themselves in real life over an internet spaceship game, no matter what I may say or do within the game itself. CCP may say 'EVE is Real', but EVE is not real - and the line between the game and reality should not be overstepped.

I'm relieved to discover that the Mackinaw miner is doing fine and mining away, despite being blown up by Goonswarm in-game. He deserves, and he has, my heartfelt apologies - here in public as well as a private apology. There's no excuse for what I did - while some might try to use my inebriation as a mitigating factor, I put myself in that compromised mental state, and the guilt of that is entirely mine.

If I could go back in time and not have included the slide mentioning the miner, I would do so. While the Eve Online character "The Mittani" would never apologize for any sort of villany in game, I myself, as Alex Gianturco, feel utterly ashamed and sickened by my behavior.




Ravan Hekki
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-03-27 06:38:39 UTC
Am not looking forward to watching Eve vilified in the popular press, hopefully they wont get hold of the story. Be intersting to see Sony's response too. Hope they arent looking at thease forums for any idea about what the Eve player bases is like.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#54 - 2012-03-27 06:53:14 UTC
Apparently CCP is investigating it, but don't count on this issue having any consequence. PR wise, the best CCP can do about it is to cover up and shut up until it fades away.

And politically-wise, Issler just damaged a lot her chances to be listened to at the CSM, and likely killed any chance she had to be taken seriously by the CSM chairman. Roll
Lenni Lennipe
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2012-03-27 07:08:49 UTC
Leadership is about taking on a level of responsibility beyond the norm, and as such, the consequences of bad decisions must also be beyond the norm. Mr. Gianturco took that responsibility on when he campaigned for CSM.

Sure he apologized, but the decisions he made, under the influence or not, must be held to account regardless. Whether he feels bad or not, whether the victim in question is OK or not, in any other situation like this, involving someone who is supposed to represent us, he would have already been forced out. In some jurisdictions, he would be subject to arrest or a civil action.

In other words, the only punishment that fits the crime is resignation. He committed a ban-able offense, stepping down from a position of elected leadership is the very least he should do. I truly think he should be banned, not permanently, but for a significant enough time that CCP proves that they're serious about one, protecting their players from such reprehensible behavior, and two, enforcing their own rules.

In RL The Mittani, by my understanding, is a lawyer, so I would expect such an apology from him in this situation. What the hell ELSE would he say? What would ANY of us say if in his shoes? OF COURSE he's gonna apologize- that should happen no matter what. What I think we need to question are his motives for doing so, and knowing what we do, I think it's more political than regretful.

If The MIttani does not resign, as far as I'm concerned it proves that his 'apology' is nothing more than a political maneuver meant to save his own skin.



Lenrir Andven
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
#56 - 2012-03-27 08:22:14 UTC
Lenni Lennipe wrote:
Leadership is about taking on a level of responsibility beyond the norm, and as such, the consequences of bad decisions must also be beyond the norm. Mr. Gianturco took that responsibility on when he campaigned for CSM.

Sure he apologized, but the decisions he made, under the influence or not, must be held to account regardless. Whether he feels bad or not, whether the victim in question is OK or not, in any other situation like this, involving someone who is supposed to represent us, he would have already been forced out. In some jurisdictions, he would be subject to arrest or a civil action.

In other words, the only punishment that fits the crime is resignation. He committed a ban-able offense, stepping down from a position of elected leadership is the very least he should do. I truly think he should be banned, not permanently, but for a significant enough time that CCP proves that they're serious about one, protecting their players from such reprehensible behavior, and two, enforcing their own rules.

In RL The Mittani, by my understanding, is a lawyer, so I would expect such an apology from him in this situation. What the hell ELSE would he say? What would ANY of us say if in his shoes? OF COURSE he's gonna apologize- that should happen no matter what. What I think we need to question are his motives for doing so, and knowing what we do, I think it's more political than regretful.

If The MIttani does not resign, as far as I'm concerned it proves that his 'apology' is nothing more than a political maneuver meant to save his own skin.





Right, right, I guess we should sack every scientists out there because they made a 'mistake' during research. Or maybe we should sack the politburo when their polices do not go as intended. Only one chance rite?


In fact, I bet you made a mistake during your career Lenni. You should apologise then 'resign' from the game.
Lenni Lennipe
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2012-03-27 08:35:43 UTC
Lenrir Andven wrote:
Lenni Lennipe wrote:
Leadership is about taking on a level of responsibility beyond the norm, and as such, the consequences of bad decisions must also be beyond the norm. Mr. Gianturco took that responsibility on when he campaigned for CSM.

Sure he apologized, but the decisions he made, under the influence or not, must be held to account regardless. Whether he feels bad or not, whether the victim in question is OK or not, in any other situation like this, involving someone who is supposed to represent us, he would have already been forced out. In some jurisdictions, he would be subject to arrest or a civil action.

In other words, the only punishment that fits the crime is resignation. He committed a ban-able offense, stepping down from a position of elected leadership is the very least he should do. I truly think he should be banned, not permanently, but for a significant enough time that CCP proves that they're serious about one, protecting their players from such reprehensible behavior, and two, enforcing their own rules.

In RL The Mittani, by my understanding, is a lawyer, so I would expect such an apology from him in this situation. What the hell ELSE would he say? What would ANY of us say if in his shoes? OF COURSE he's gonna apologize- that should happen no matter what. What I think we need to question are his motives for doing so, and knowing what we do, I think it's more political than regretful.

If The MIttani does not resign, as far as I'm concerned it proves that his 'apology' is nothing more than a political maneuver meant to save his own skin.





Right, right, I guess we should sack every scientists out there because they made a 'mistake' during research. Or maybe we should sack the politburo when their polices do not go as intended. Only one chance rite?


In fact, I bet you made a mistake during your career Lenni. You should apologise then 'resign' from the game.


LOL fail
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#58 - 2012-03-27 08:36:04 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:


This is about not letting some very bad behavior undo all the gains the CSM has made in gaining player support.


And most of the support is for Mittens and the CSM's profile has been raised because of him.

Just get over it already and stop having a little drama lama. I'm embarrassed for you and more to the point, you welcome support from the EULA breaking Darius.
Lomarro
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2012-03-27 08:49:29 UTC
you really need to try harder to get enough member kicked so you and darius get a trip to iceland
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#60 - 2012-03-27 08:58:11 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
Arkady Vachon wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
Darius III wrote:
Nothing but removal from the CSM will show that CCP cares about this issue. What would have turned out to be possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars in free good publicity for CSM now turns out to be PR nightmare and unmitigated disaster for our whole community. Just step down and be done with it.


Thanks for being the first CSM to step up can call this behavior what it was! Flat out unacceptable

Issler



Jumped in to show mittens I am a loyal lap dog!! Bark Bark!!!!


Right,

This is about not letting some very bad behavior undo all the gains the CSM has made in gaining player support.

And pro-mittens trolls will just make the anti-mittens backlash even greater.

I am still questioning where the other CSM 7 are on this, this should be a unanimous call for at a minimum censure.

Folks that just voted, ask yourself why your candidates haven't joined this protest!

Issler



You see Issler that's the problem. You are coming from a CSM time (CSM 3) where events were formal, people had meetings that accomplished little, and the entire thing was one big crowd facing publicity stunt for the people involved. Before you even have sat down to work with the other members you've already taken a stand that you're going to do your best to make a lot of political hay out of attacking one of them. I'd take some time to work with the other people first before you try to pull this ****.