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Are Marauders worth the time?
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#21 - 2012-03-27 03:00:39 UTC
Just for the Kronos, no. I trained Marauders V immediately after I trained all 4 BS skills to V. It is a nice to have for the Kronos, Vargur, and Golem. It is wonderful for the Paladin.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#22 - 2012-03-27 03:10:42 UTC
No -

That's an insanely long skill for something that will only benefit you in 1 activity, in 1 ship, (unless you plan on getting another BS skill to V on top of Marauders V) that's pretty niche. As opposed to a Vindi which only required Gal Bs V and Min Bs V to get all its bonuses which are both excellent skills to have and give much more variety (also, better fitting, more damage etc)

Also, I don't really look into it but apparently salvaging is getting less and less profitable so yeah, there's not much reason to train Marauders. Also Guristas missions w/ a Marauder is straight up unbearable. I get jammed 3-8 times in long missions (The Assault) with my Tengu (34 sensor strength), god help you in a Marauder.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#23 - 2012-03-27 06:13:33 UTC  |  Edited by: hmskrecik
Contrary to most of opinions stated here I'd say that it's worth to go for Kronos. I've been flying it for a while (Marauders IV) and also Vindi. Vindi is damage monster hands down, but it's bitchy to fit properly. In short, you wont' get much of it without decent pimpage.

Kronos on the other hand lags a little with raw dps but because of turret bonus has outrageous amount of PG/CPU to play with and if you settle on T2 damage rig and 3 magstabs you'll discover that you have more low/mid slots than you actually require. Oh, and you use half the ammo, just as a bonus.

While sensor is crap and you get ECM'd easily (you'll hate Guristas), in compensation you get almost twice the locking range, which helps against dampeners (you'll hate Serpentis too, but at least you'll be able to send them The Message, 425mm wide). And if you consider traveling from time to time, twice the cargo space will have obvious advantages as well. And lastly, even if you don't loot salvage, 48km tractor range comes handy when you need to grab mission object.

This is not to say whether Kronos is better than Vindi or not. In my opinion they are comparable and their strengths come out in different situations. For heavy grinding I use Vindi, for travels, like with Epic Arc or for standing repairs, I prefer Kronos.

HTH.
Dyniss
KarmaFleet University
#24 - 2012-03-27 07:26:38 UTC
Kronos is not worth it and it's a shame too. The Duvolle labs scheme makes it look really cool. You are forced to use armor tank since its bonus is around armor tanking and you still have that huge exp hole to cover up so its worthless in angel missions unless you waste it's lows covering that hole up! but by doing that you give up your lows so no tracking enhancers or mag stabs! IMHO it's shield tanking all the way for missions and honestly any pve related stuff. It's soo much better to fit a burst shield active tank and load up on the damage/tracking for turrest or bcus/painters for missile guys and simply steamroll the very stupid ai eve rats have.

I'd recommend a Mach,Navy Domi ,CNR or Golem,Maelstrom heck any Minmatar bs/bc or command ship since projectile is king of PVE really.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#25 - 2012-03-27 07:36:07 UTC
Dyniss wrote:
Kronos is not worth it and it's a shame too... heck any Minmatar bs/bc or command ship since projectile is king of PVE really.


Heh, what? Kronos ***** on the Sleip for missions.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Dyniss
KarmaFleet University
#26 - 2012-03-27 08:34:21 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Dyniss wrote:
Kronos is not worth it and it's a shame too... heck any Minmatar bs/bc or command ship since projectile is king of PVE really.


Heh, what? Kronos ***** on the Sleip for missions.

-Liang

I'd like to see a 425mm rail Kronos alpha strike cruisers and 2 shot bs's like a Maelstrom can and lets not even go into how awesome a Mach is for missions.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#27 - 2012-03-27 09:00:54 UTC
Dyniss wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Dyniss wrote:
Kronos is not worth it and it's a shame too... heck any Minmatar bs/bc or command ship since projectile is king of PVE really.


Heh, what? Kronos ***** on the Sleip for missions.

-Liang

I'd like to see a 425mm rail Kronos alpha strike cruisers and 2 shot bs's like a Maelstrom can and lets not even go into how awesome a Mach is for missions.


A few comments:
- I specifically commented on your assertion that the Sleipnir and Hurricane were better at missions than the Kronos.
- If you're using artillery on your Maelstrom, you are doing it wrong. Furthermore the traditional arty maelstrom is outdamaged by a Kronos at ALL ranges.
- If you're using an AC Maelstrom the Kronos still outdamages it at all meaningful ranges. You can't even claim superiority up close because it can fit a 90% web. Also, because the Kronos uses a third the ammo, it can better afford to use FN ammo while the Maelstrom cannot realistically afford to use RF EMP.
- The Kronos can loot and salvage at the same time and WILL make more ISK/hr than the Cane, Sleip, or Maelstrom.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#28 - 2012-03-27 10:01:53 UTC
Dyniss wrote:
I'd like to see a 425mm rail Kronos alpha strike cruisers and 2 shot bs's like a Maelstrom can and lets not even go into how awesome a Mach is for missions.

Maybe it's time to invest into glasses?

It's not happening every time but almost no mission goes without a cruiser or battlecruiser instapopped.

And if you struggle with mission Angels I dare to say that you're doing it wrong.
Julia Allrian
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-03-27 10:22:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Julia Allrian
I use the Kronos for a year or two and can say that this ship is awesome.

The damage difference to a vindicator is not that much (although it is noticable) but the 40km tractors are awesome.

Another thing you could consider is the very awesome capacitor and tank the Kronos has. I just use a capbooster as the only single cap mod and i rarely need it. Since it is a marauder you have a huge cargo bay and there is no issue to carry a few 800 around in addition to the 4 in the booster.

Since the patch even neutron blasters are viable. with 2 tracking comps with range script, and 2 tracking enhancers and Null L you can shoot up to ~40km. With nice tracking. I rarely use Rails since then (although some rats require it).

I fit it with just T2 (nno gank magenet) and a minimal tank of 2 hardeners and 1 repper. That leaves space for damage mods.

This ship works like a charm and the salvage you do while shooting adds nice isk too.

BR Julia

P.S: Yes still marauder 4 andi dont plan on bringing it to 5.

Edit:

You are probably interested in a ship to step up from a dominix. Well i also a few other navy/faction ships (but only gallente related) and the kronos is the best. nice tank and 1000+ dps.
Dyniss
KarmaFleet University
#30 - 2012-03-27 11:15:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Dyniss
Liang Nuren wrote:
Dyniss wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Dyniss wrote:
Kronos is not worth it and it's a shame too... heck any Minmatar bs/bc or command ship since projectile is king of PVE really.


Heh, what? Kronos ***** on the Sleip for missions.

-Liang

I'd like to see a 425mm rail Kronos alpha strike cruisers and 2 shot bs's like a Maelstrom can and lets not even go into how awesome a Mach is for missions.


A few comments:
- I specifically commented on your assertion that the Sleipnir and Hurricane were better at missions than the Kronos.
- If you're using artillery on your Maelstrom, you are doing it wrong. Furthermore the traditional arty maelstrom is outdamaged by a Kronos at ALL ranges.
- If you're using an AC Maelstrom the Kronos still outdamages it at all meaningful ranges. You can't even claim superiority up close because it can fit a 90% web. Also, because the Kronos uses a third the ammo, it can better afford to use FN ammo while the Maelstrom cannot realistically afford to use RF EMP.
- The Kronos can loot and salvage at the same time and WILL make more ISK/hr than the Cane, Sleip, or Maelstrom.

-Liang

Sorry if I came off rude I had no intention of doing so. Still, The Kronos is underwelming when comparing it to most faction or pirate BS and armor IMHO is ineffective for PVE unless you want missions/PVE related stuff to take longer. It's shields all the way. More dmg mods faster rep cycles and a more agile ship. Sure your active tank is not stable or efficient like a armor tank is but you deal twice as much dmg. and who cares for webs? The AI in EVE is incredibly STUPID! They fly in straight lines with mwds most of the time. And most missions its lock then pop pop pop. Most frigates when your are a turret ship never get into shooting range unless they spawn there. even Anoms and sleepers are predicable after a few runs. PVE and missions in eve atm is like mining find the most effective and fastest way to grind isk per hour. also for the tractor range most players now a days run dual accounts so most just tag along in a Noctis or logistic ship of some kind I know I do and the Noctis has a incredible cap recharge rate you can easily fit a large shield transfer and dual tracking links while still salvaging at the same time so even more dmg or tracking/bcus or painters for that shield ship.
Dyniss
KarmaFleet University
#31 - 2012-03-27 11:29:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Dyniss
My typical set up is me in a Navy Dominix with my alt in his Noctis he runs this

Noctis fit
Highs
3x Salvagers
4x Tractors
1x Large shield transfer
Mids
2x Tracking links II
Lows
2x cap power relays II
1x Expanded cargo hold II
Rigs
3x CCC's

This can run cap stable with the large shield transfer,tracking links and all the tractors. The salvagers make it not stable if they are running granted my alts cap/engineering skills need work but with EVERYTHING on I get about 5 or so minutes of cap. My Navy Domi does around 1000dps with null and drones almost 1500 with void and with the tracking links I get 0.1(with a bunch of other numbers) tracking or close to 60km range with null and optimal range scripts. I bet a player with a good alt can run a fully T2 noctis with Shadow Serpentis tracking links and some faction tracking enhancers and computers and get some AMAZING tracking!
Dyniss
KarmaFleet University
#32 - 2012-03-27 11:35:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Dyniss
I can easily solo (well duo with my alt) a AE even the bonus room with only a large shield booster and a shield booster amp and and a exp/kin and adaptive hardner and the rest of my lows are mag stabs and tracking enhancers and a tracking computer too. I bet a Vargur or Mach would destroy a Blockade mission (guessing this is one of the hardest if you trigger all the spawns) with a logi Noctis trailing behind.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#33 - 2012-03-27 12:39:35 UTC
Dyniss wrote:
....The Kronos is underwelming when comparing it to most faction or pirate BS and armor IMHO is ineffective for PVE unless you want missions/PVE related stuff to take longer.

Okay, to make long story short, can you share some performance examples of Kronos and other ships you are referring to?
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-03-27 13:04:05 UTC
Pirate BS:
Generally has better damage

Marauder:
Generally has better tank

generally, in lvl 4 missions the better damage outweighs the better tank. However, in other PvE uses you sometimes need the better tank - Ex. nullsec anoms, WH space sleeper murdering, etc.

As I currently live in nullsec, I have considered getting a marauder or 2 to run anoms wtih. The price is the big sticking point there though - instead of a marauder I could get a couple PvP ships to blow through...

-Arazel
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#35 - 2012-03-27 13:44:54 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Dyniss wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Dyniss wrote:
Kronos is not worth it and it's a shame too... heck any Minmatar bs/bc or command ship since projectile is king of PVE really.


Heh, what? Kronos ***** on the Sleip for missions.

-Liang

I'd like to see a 425mm rail Kronos alpha strike cruisers and 2 shot bs's like a Maelstrom can and lets not even go into how awesome a Mach is for missions.


A few comments:
- I specifically commented on your assertion that the Sleipnir and Hurricane were better at missions than the Kronos.
- If you're using artillery on your Maelstrom, you are doing it wrong. Furthermore the traditional arty maelstrom is outdamaged by a Kronos at ALL ranges.
- If you're using an AC Maelstrom the Kronos still outdamages it at all meaningful ranges. You can't even claim superiority up close because it can fit a 90% web. Also, because the Kronos uses a third the ammo, it can better afford to use FN ammo while the Maelstrom cannot realistically afford to use RF EMP.
- The Kronos can loot and salvage at the same time and WILL make more ISK/hr than the Cane, Sleip, or Maelstrom.

-Liang


This tbh...
In fact in a lot of missions (most of those that the damage type is not severely gimped and all of those that have close up BS action, irrespective of damage type) my Kronos feels superior to My Vargur with L Neutrons ... with 425II rails I think it is superior in the vast majority of lvl 4s... However the tank is not as good IMO... which would matter a lot in other pve envronments I guess...
Azemar
Voidhounds
Pretenders
#36 - 2012-03-27 17:02:08 UTC
I should note that I am in Sansha space, so shield tanking with Gallente is out of the question.

So after reading all these posts, i'm getting the feeling that the two are relatively equal. Again, not in guritas space so the ECM's aren't there, just tracking disruptors.

The vindi gets better damage, sensor strength (although terrible tracking range for rails which i plan on using).


So basically to help the advice:

In Sansha space
I use rails.
Mainly run Mag/Radar/DED/unrated

Does this make a more clear choice?
Nemo deBlanc
Resource Acquisition Unlimited
#37 - 2012-03-28 01:21:04 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
There's times and places where Marauders are simply the best choice. For instance, running 2 Marauders in a WH is far superior to running a faction BS and a Noctis.

-Liang

Ed: And 1x Marauder >> 1 faction BS/T3 and coming back in a Noctis.


Don't you run into issues with stuff blowing up outside tractor range in wh's? Or is there something I'm missing here?
Dyniss
KarmaFleet University
#38 - 2012-03-28 03:04:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Dyniss
No need for tractors on a battleship really. The specialized Noctis is way more efficient at doing the salvaging and as for gallente shield tanking well a Domi or a Navy Domi have more then enough mid slots for a strong shield tank. I can easily get 80 em and thermal and still have room for a tracking computer (on the 6 slot Navy Domi) also after recent hybrid buffs blasters range is much better now too. I just feel cost wise the Kronos is just not worthwhile there are much better choices. Kronos is a better pvp ship it's pve side just falls short.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#39 - 2012-03-28 05:38:07 UTC
Nemo deBlanc wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
There's times and places where Marauders are simply the best choice. For instance, running 2 Marauders in a WH is far superior to running a faction BS and a Noctis.

-Liang

Ed: And 1x Marauder >> 1 faction BS/T3 and coming back in a Noctis.


Don't you run into issues with stuff blowing up outside tractor range in wh's? Or is there something I'm missing here?


I encourage you to try it! :)

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#40 - 2012-03-28 06:49:29 UTC
Azemar wrote:
So basically to help the advice:

In Sansha space
I use rails.
Mainly run Mag/Radar/DED/unrated

Does this make a more clear choice?

Vindi:
+ better dps
+ better buffer (not crucial but helps, esp. with gank-tank)

Kronos:
+ better cap
+ uses half the ammo
+ better locking range
+ more utility slots, more fitting options
+ more tanking potential

Differences are slight in their magnitudes making both ships comparable and in my opinion, interchangeable for most parts. As you said, they are relatively equal so you as well may choose just what you like.