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PvE Amarr Cruiser Choice for a Newbie?

Author
Meiyo Itansha
Kite Co. Space Trucking
#1 - 2012-03-26 16:45:56 UTC
Hi all,
After playing for about a week, I bought my first Cruiser - and Omen. I loaded it up with some inexpensive modules and jumped into the SoE Epic arc. I was doing fine until I hit Burning Down the Hive, in which I got blown to bits. It was a dumb mistake, I didn't check out the mission report first, and assumed since I was in a cruiser for a level 1 epic arc I'd be fine. Anyway, losing the Omen got me thinking. What should I be looking at for PvE as a newbie? And am I trying to graduate to cruisers too fast?

Everyone that I asked about it in game said that I should get into a cruiser ASAP, as level 1 missions are mostly useless. I have the recommended Omen certs, but I'm still wondering if I shouldn't be spending more time in my Destroyer. I have around 8 mil ISK right now, and purchasing and fitting another Omen would pretty much clean out my balance.

So my first question is should I wait until I have the ISK to buy better mods before I buy another cruiser?

Now, the more nitty gritty questions:

What cruiser should I be looking at? I looked around at some fits, and all I see are arguments. The only fits that people agree on tend to be quite expensive and out of my league. When looking at cheaper fits, everyone seems to be arguing about whether an Omen or a Maller is better, or whether pulse or quad lasers are better, etc.

So what are some general guidelines? My last Omen had a couple EANM 1s, some plating (I forget which, I think it was 200mm), a Medium Armor Repairer, a medium cap battery, 3 medium laser turrets and 2 pulse laser turrets. I have no idea if it was really a decent fit or not aside from the fact that I was doing fine until I hit that darn Burning Down the Hive mission.


Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. Currently looking at an Arbitrator as well, though I'd need to spend a little time skilling up drones before I'd feel comfortable in it.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#2 - 2012-03-26 16:56:47 UTC
From what I've heard, the Arbi is the best PvE T1 Amarr cruiser, though I'll admit that I'm not an expert on Amarr ships myself.

I think your core issue, however, is your skills (as you guessed it might be). You'll be better off sticking to small stuff for a bit while you spend more time skilling up. Most importantly though, the first rule of Eve is that you should never fly what you can't afford to lose. So you should spend some time saving up before spending all your ISK on a bigger ship that you might or might not be ready for.
Meiyo Itansha
Kite Co. Space Trucking
#3 - 2012-03-26 17:00:24 UTC
Thanks for the advice!

I know a lot of people say ignore certs, but are the recommended certs for a ship a good thing to shoot for? That's what I have been doing so far, I made sure I had the recommendeds for the Omen before i bought it.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#4 - 2012-03-26 17:12:03 UTC
Certs do show some skills that can help you out, but they're more like guidelines than anything. If you're not sure what to train next, certs (especially Core Competency) are good to go for, but they're not the end-all skills for that ship, there's even more skills that will help it and not all the skills in the certs will be as helpful.

tl;dr: they're good, but they're still just rough guidelines
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-03-26 17:27:24 UTC
IIRC the problm with that mission is that you get webbed and scrammed by small, fast targets. this is of course problematic for a cruiser without decent gunnery skills. i remember losing two or three artillery thrashers back in the day.... Oops
the solution in this special case is to have drones on your cruiser. they can chew up anything that gets too close for your guns; you should obviously call them back if they get aggroed.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Kakari Ra
3Ra Syndicate
#6 - 2012-03-26 17:30:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Kakari Ra
Arbitrator is the best all around PvE ship for Amarr. It lets you have a decent tank while having also decent damage

But, if drone isn't your forte, Omen works. But I suggest Navy Omen which is a much better cruiser to handle with

In PvE, your biggest problem will be dealing with fast NPC frigates that happen to get in close and orbit you close where medium guns simply can't hit. That's where light drones will come in play. Maller has no drone bay. Omen has very little. Navy Omen can field 5 light drones which helps a lot. In addition, navy omen also have a lot more slots to work with

Last time I checked, navy omen was going for 55m ish in Jita.
Arlen Fehrnah
MLJ Space League
#7 - 2012-03-26 17:33:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Arlen Fehrnah
I was in a similar situation to you 6/7 months ago. I had just finished the SoE arc in my Coercer, and was looking to upgrade to a cruiser for level 2's. I bought the Omen based purely on looks, as I thought the maller looked like a giant flying nose, and the arbitrator, whilst cool, just wasn't quite as nice as the Omen. I didn't consider the Augorer due to it being ugly aswell as being more of a support ship.

Anyway, about 3 missions into my Level 2 career my Omen was destroyed. Got warp scrammed by frigs and couldn't get out. Needless to say I was gutted, but went and bought another Omen with the last of my cash. A few days later the same mission came up, and I thought "aha, I'll get them this time" I didn't. Lost my Omen in the exact same way as the first one. Now obviously this was partly my fault for being stupid and getting scrammed twice. But the ship doesn't help either.

The Omen is very difficult to squeeze a decent fit out of. Too little PG/CPU/CAP etc. After losing those 2 ships I changed to an Arbitrator, and never lost the thing. Ran all the L2's I needed to unlock 3's, and never had any trouble. This week however I started working towards unlocking L4s for a different faction, and my Omen is blitzing through L2's with no problem whatsoever. It just seems like a really unforgiving ship for low skills. I'd recommend leaving the Omen for now, and flying one later if you want to(for PvP or whatever)

Now, I have never flown a Maller, so I'm not sure how good it is, but from what I've heard it is incredibly tough, but hits like a wet noodle. So i think the Arbi would be better suited to L2s. Also, the extra drone skills you will no doubt train whilst flying it will all be of great value when you reach Battlecruisers/Battleships, so don't think of them as wasted skills or anything like that.

So unless someone has a good arguement for the Maller that I'm overlooking(very possible, as I said I've never flown one), I'd recommend getting an Arbitrator.

*EDIT*

I'm not sure the Navy Omen is the ship for the OP. Sure its good but, he said he has 8mil, he ain't gonna be flying a Navy Omen any time soon. I mean, how many level 1's would it take to save up 50+mil? Hell of alot I reckon lol
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-03-26 18:26:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyron-Baktos
I just did a ton of level 2 missions in the Omen over the weekend and didn't really have any issues. The Blockade was a pain with that web stasis tower but I got through it. I did not see any scram frigs though. Your skills may only allow you to use tech 1 mods which will hurt you a lot

My fit going off memory is:

med pulse lasers II (switched between navy multi, navy radio and scorch crystals)
Experimental 10MN MWD
web I
heat sink II x 2
small armor repairer I ( I need level 2 but skills are not there yet)
damage control unit II
cap boosters
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane I (I think this is what I have)
Meiyo Itansha
Kite Co. Space Trucking
#9 - 2012-03-26 19:52:19 UTC
Thanks again for the responses,

I think I've pretty much settled on an Arbitrator, I like the idea of using drones and I look the look of the ship. So I have another question. Would I be best served just to focus on putting combat drones in it? Some light scout drones and medium scout drones? Or would it be better to diversify, putting combat, ewar and logistics drones in the bay?
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-03-26 19:53:32 UTC
The arbitrator is arguably the best Amarr cruiser but it relies on drones. Flying amarr you'll want to shoot lasers. I'ld recommend the Maller.
Fit it with medium pulse lasers (the same size you fit on frigates) . You'll have more than enough room to fit a nice tank consisting of a medium repper with some armor hardeners) You can use every low slot for tanking items if you really want. It's not a perfect way of running missions but while you learn the ropes, your tank will save your ship.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-03-26 20:51:15 UTC
The arbitrator is the best, it's use of drones also makes it easy to later cross train to gallente should you want to use them later.

The main problem with the arbitrator is that your going to be setting yourself up for a lot of catching up to do as all later Amarr ships use lazors (or missiles in the case of a few T2s)

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

Kneebone
K-H Light Industries
#12 - 2012-03-26 21:23:56 UTC
Meiyo Itansha wrote:
Thanks again for the responses,

I think I've pretty much settled on an Arbitrator, I like the idea of using drones and I look the look of the ship. So I have another question. Would I be best served just to focus on putting combat drones in it? Some light scout drones and medium scout drones? Or would it be better to diversify, putting combat, ewar and logistics drones in the bay?


Carry combat drones only, for what you are doing EWAR drones are a waste. At best webbing drones have a minor role in PvP, but for an Arby the drones are your main damage source. Carry spares of the drones you are using and, once you get a feel for agro and how to control drones, start carrying different flights of drones. For L2's you will be fine with Hobgoblins and Hammerheads in most missions. If you do not have good drone skills don't be afraid to put things like Omni Directionals in your mids. You don't really need tracking disruptors for PvE so your mids really are for an after burner and cap mods on an Arby.

Fredfredbug4 wrote:
The main problem with the arbitrator is that your going to be setting yourself up for a lot of catching up to do as all later Amarr ships use lazors (or missiles in the case of a few T2s)


Not true at all. Pretty much all Battlecruisers and Battleships use drones, especially Light drones for anti frig work in PvE. This is epsecially true for Amarr battleships as Large Energy weapons don't have the best tracking for close in, fast orbit frigs unless you slap webs on them. Drones skills for any combat pilot are never a waste.
Akina Damaar
Akina Damaar Corporation
#13 - 2012-03-26 22:01:10 UTC
Kneebone wrote:
Pretty much all Battlecruisers and Battleships use drones, especially Light drones for anti frig work in PvE. This is epsecially true for Amarr battleships as Large Energy weapons don't have the best tracking for close in, fast orbit frigs unless you slap webs on them. Drones skills for any combat pilot are never a waste.


Quoted for truth.

Unless you go missiles (Caldari) you will need drone skills, period. You can as well start to train them now and fly the best cruiser Amarr has, the Arbitrator.
Kosetzu
The Black Crow Bandits
Northern Coalition.
#14 - 2012-03-26 22:12:54 UTC
I agree with what has been said about the Arbitrator is the ship you want. You'll want to look at core skills that gives you a bonus no matter which ship you fly early on. Considering you're Amarr capacitor skills will be very important.

EVE is one of those games you can't rush. You can sit in a battleship in a week, but you'll need at least 2 months before you can fly it even decently. Remember that you're not limited to one race of ships, but early on it might be a good idea to stick with one ship race as getting good skills for everything would slow you down in getting to better missions with better rewards.

Damage types is something you should learn as well. Amarr lasers deal EM/Thermal damage, and is therefore good against ships/factions with low EM/Thermal resist. Blood Raiders is one of the races with weak resists to this damage type, so doing missions in Amarr space is a good idea as they give more missions against them than any other place.

Skills you might want to look into that are basics that are needed for everyone include (but are not limited to):


Rank 1/Level 4 skills: (The higher the rank, the longer it takes to train.) These take short time to get to level 4, which gives good bonuses for the time spent on them. Level 5 is recommended when you've got your basics together.

- Spaceship Command - 2% Agility for ALL ships.
- Navigation - 5% max speed increase
- Mechanics - 5% Increase to Hull hitpoints
- Energy Systems Operation - 5% increase it capacitor recharge (quicker recharge)
- Targeting - 1 more target per skill lvl
- Signature Analysis - 5% targeting speed
- Engineering - 5% to ship powergrid (PG) output
- Electronics - 5% to ship CPU output


Rank 2/Level 3/4: These take a bit longer than the rank 1 skills, and for the time spent training them level 3 early on is good usually.

- Hull Upgrades - 5% Increase to Armor hitpoints
- Evasive Maneuvering - 5% Ship agility
- Long Range Targeting - 5% increase to maximum targeting range

Rank 3/Level 3: These skills start to take a bit more time. Level 3 is recommended early on when you have the time.

- Energy Management - 5% Increase in total capacitor
- Shield Management - 5% Increase to max shield hitpoints




For the Arbitrator and other drone ships these skills are extra useful, but ANY ship with a dronebay will benefit from these (almost every ship in eve got a dronebay)


Rank 1/Level 5: These to skills to 5 will give you access to Tech 2 drones which deal a lot more damage.

- Scout Drone Operation - Increases drone control range by 5000m per lvl
- Drones - Able to control 1 additional drone per level (max 5)


Rank 2/Level 3: Increases dmg of drones, but not by too much. Good for droneboats

- Combat Drone Operation - 5% increase to light and medium drone damage


Rank 5/Level 2/3: These skills lets you deal a lot more damage with your drones, as well as field Tech 2 variants.

- Drone Interfacting - 20%! increase in drone damage
- [Race] Drone Specialization - to use T2 drones you need these skills, level 1 for Light, level 2 for Medium and so on. (Bonus only applies to T2 drones.)

I'd recommend Gallente and Minmatar specialization early on. The Gallente drones outdamage Amarr drones against EM weak targets, Minmatar drones are good against Angels and other Explosive weak enemies. Caldari drone spec is useful when you come against Kinetic weak enemies, but Minmatar/Gallente drones work fine in most cases.

For when you use a turret based ship as most Amarr ships are, you'll want certain Gunnery skills:


Rank 1/Level 4: Gives you a decent bonus for time invested.
- Gunnery - 2% Increase to turret damage

Rank 2/Level 3/4:
- Weapon Upgrades - 5% decrease in turret/launcher CPU use
- Sharpshooter - 5% Increase to optimal range (lasers have good optimal)
- Rapid Firing - 5% Increase in rate of fire
- Motion Prediction - 5% to turret tracking (can turn quicker to hit fast moving targets)
- Controlled Bursts - 5% reduction in turret capacitor need (useless for projectile turrets)


Rank 4/Level 3: Gives decent bonuses to turrets.
- Surgical Strike - 3% damage increase to all turret types


Rank 5/Level 3: Gives decent bonuses to turrets.
- Trajectory Analysis - 5% to turret falloff (most useful for ships using projectile turrets)



While training ALL of these skills takes some time when you're new they give some insight to what is useful to have when you've gotten on your feet. Most people tend to rush this game when they first start, trying to get into the biggest and baddest ship they can before they have the skills to fly it as anything other than a coffin.

In addition to the skills I've mentioned comes weapon specific skills like small lasers, medium lasers etc. Missiles have a completely different set of skills than turrets, and work differently as well.


For mission specific reports this website is useful: eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports
It's written by players (anyone can contribute), and shows you somewhat what you can expect to face in missions you take on. Some of the information is slightly outdated, but 99.9% of it will help you stay alive.


This might have been a wall of text but I hope that it sorted some things out without confusing or boring you too much.

If you still have any questions feel free to send me a mail in-game or chat with me when I'm online if you want any further help.
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-03-26 22:24:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Darthewok
Amarr T1 cruisers all suck. You want to rush by them to the Harbinger, not stay in the zone of suck.

Omen is a half-assed Harbinger
Maller is a half-assed Prophecy
Arbitrator is a half-assed Vexor (lol) at least in terms of PVE because the TD is useless vs NPCs

Since Harbinger>>>>Prophecy, Omen>Maller
Arbitrator and drones are fun and effective, but expect to spend a good while training drones. (mem/per skills, which are a bit away from per/will focus of lasers)

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

Arlen Fehrnah
MLJ Space League
#16 - 2012-03-26 22:31:00 UTC
I would highly recommend paying attention to what Kosetzu wrote. Having a list of skills laid out like that would have been mighty useful when I started, and prevented me from getting some of the random crap I ended up with(luckily I didn't end up with anything too useless, just spent alot of time missing vital skills)Even today I sometimes see a skill and think "damn, why don't I have that?" Having the right skills for the job is half of what Eve is about, and that list covers the basics that you will want ASAP.
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#17 - 2012-03-26 22:32:05 UTC
Echo, head to harbinger as soon as you can.

Since you probly can't afford that right away, Arbitrator or Maller are the two I'd recommend. Arby is the better ship, but requires good drone skills, because drones will be your primary weapon. Also good fitting skills, because it's PG and cap are very weak as it's a tier 1 ship. If you skimp on your skills, the ship will suck. Don't feel bad though, because almost all ships you'll fly later use drones as secondary weapons, and every ship ever uses fitting skills, so that training will not be wasted.

The Maller is kind of underwhelming, but has the advantage of being extremely easy to fit. It has no drones, which can make killing frigates close in tedious, so make sure you fit a webber on it. Depending on where you are in skills, you may get better performance from this then the Arby in the near-term.
Lili Lu
#18 - 2012-03-26 22:50:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Darthewok wrote:
Amarr T1 cruisers all suck. You want to rush by them to the Harbinger, not stay in the zone of suck.

Omen is a half-assed Harbinger
Maller is a half-assed Prophecy
Arbitrator is a half-assed Vexor (lol) at least in terms of PVE because the TD is useless vs NPCs

Since Harbinger>>>>Prophecy, Omen>Maller
Arbitrator and drones are fun and effective, but expect to spend a good while training drones. (mem/per skills, which are a bit away from per/will focus of lasers)

This and Kosetzu's posts are excellent examples of both ends of the posting quality spectrum. The quoted post above is for the trash bin end of the spectrum. Kosetzu's is what you should read and follow.

The Arbitrator is not a half-assed Vexor. All you will be using in level 2 missions is light scout drones and maybe the medium scout drones if an npc cruiser appears. Both ships have 4 low slots for tank. Actually the extra mid of the Arbitrator can be used to help cap regen and keep your repper on. Alternately the 4 mids allow you to shield tank against kinetic and explo damage dealing rats. Granted the Vexor has more weapon hardpoints in the highs, but in some missions you won't be using high slots because you won't have time to target and shoot the rats before your drones kill them (if you put drones on aggressive and watch for respwns that might kill your drones).

Arbitrator is the only good Amarr tech I cruiser for pve at this time. When the upcoming balancing patches hit this situation may change, one can only hope. Train cruiser 3 or 4, drones 5, combat drone and drone interfacing to 3 or 4 each and your drones, tech I or tech II, will have a big bite on all the frigs in level 2 missions. The Omen has even been admitted by devs to be a waste, the Auguror is simply there to make Guardians and the Maller has a tank and that's it.
Clyde ElectraGlide
Emara Entertainment Inc.
#19 - 2012-03-26 23:01:02 UTC
Arbitrator for all the reasons mentioned above, plus being a great reason to crosstrain Gallente after you maybe would want to get your Amarrian skills up. The Dominix is one of the easiest ships to mission in provided you have tech 2 sentry or heavy drones trained. Plus, if you were to ever venture into exploration, the Ishtar is the best non tech 3 ship for that.

I initially crosstrained Amarr specifically for the Arbitrator, and later for the Pilgrim once I realised how awesome of a ship it was. But to answer your question, yes, an Arbitrator for the short-term, and then a Harbinger when you get into level 3 missions.

In Need of a New Signature

drdxie
#20 - 2012-03-27 00:56:58 UTC
Arbitrator is OK if you have decent drone skills, which a new player probably won't. Amarr cruisers are not great for someone with low skills, I never did try the faction cruisers to be honest. I would suggest you go for a harbinger. Just make sure you have a web fitted as you going to have problems with the frigs when they get past your guns.

OH, and why on earth would you want to cross train to Gallente?? If anything.. cross train Caldari and get into a NM Twisted

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277

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