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Off Gride Command Bonuses Please don't nerf them.
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Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-03-26 21:17:42 UTC
Command ships and T3 Cruisers are not the only ships to be talking about

Battle Cruisers
Orca
Rorqual
Carriers
Super Carriers
Titans

Some ships have bonus but others don't. Some ships like the Rorqual should not be on grid as it has to be in In Industrial Mode (5 minute cycles) at the belt is Scary as Crap, and null sec is not a nice place to leave capital ship stuck in seige mode at a belt with out substantial support! Unlike a dread a Rorqual needs to be out there for the full 3 hours to get the task done for a mining op, where a dreadnaught it out in a spot for a fraction of the time to kill what it needs and adding more combat dreads to the targets speeds up the process.
And a person has a tough time compressing with out access to storage unit to pick up and compress and deposit from.

Oh! and trying to get Tactical support for a mining op is hopeless. The rats don't spawn enough to keep any PVE player occupied and they begin to get board and either leave or start shooting the miners.

If this proposal goes though the Rorqual boosting needs a SERIOUS re design.
I would recommend a 25% flat cut from the Module effecting those off the grid.

This game needs to be more than just Group weapons Primary f1!
Does now one know how to scan down a ship anymore?

At least with Battle Cruisers you can hide the booster with in the fleet of Battle cruisers. The orca simply warps off the field with the miners if trouble shows up.
Carriers - just hide in the blob of carriers when repairing
Super Carriers, and Titan well we see how they work and they will have a sub cap fleet to support them since they are all on the same PVP or Structure Goal!

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-03-26 21:31:42 UTC
lulz

Whiners whine when they can apply the same tactics against their enemy.

They chose to not put a command ship off grid, they lose, so its the fault of the other guy.

Yeah, that makes so much sense.

To bad you can still probe them out, can catch them on the gates if you don't suck and if you don't...yeah you deserve to lose to the gang facing you. To bad, you can't ******* just leave the system and set up an ambush on the next gate...lets not forget that you don't even have to face the enemy at all so you can just pick up your ball and go home (<- means go find explodey action elseware). Risk means you have to be eyeball to daddy bag and all oiled up now I guess, to bad risk could also mean using your own command ship off grid.

Worst idea ever, limit on grid. To bad it only takes alpha and primary targets to counter that suggetion + the fact the lock idea will probably have a limit on how often it can like the Micro Jump drive (every 2 freaking minutes, boring inbetween uses) be used so its not abused like a red headed step child and the command ship will still just die .
Arsedestroyer
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-03-26 21:58:08 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
lulz

Whiners whine when they can apply the same tactics against their enemy.

They chose to not put a command ship off grid, they lose, so its the fault of the other guy.

Yeah, that makes so much sense.

To bad you can still probe them out, can catch them on the gates if you don't suck and if you don't...yeah you deserve to lose to the gang facing you. To bad, you can't ******* just leave the system and set up an ambush on the next gate...lets not forget that you don't even have to face the enemy at all so you can just pick up your ball and go home (<- means go find explodey action elseware). Risk means you have to be eyeball to daddy bag and all oiled up now I guess, to bad risk could also mean using your own command ship off grid.

Worst idea ever, limit on grid. To bad it only takes alpha and primary targets to counter that suggetion + the fact the lock idea will probably have a limit on how often it can like the Micro Jump drive (every 2 freaking minutes, boring inbetween uses) be used so its not abused like a red headed step child and the command ship will still just die .



What fricking noob still uses a CS as an offgrid booster? You use a T3, fit it to be closely to unprobable, set up your directional scan appropriately and scan for probes - once you catch one on scan, you switch safespots.

As for being caught on gates - yeah - what fricking failure loses a cov ops cloaked, interdiction nullified T3 on a gate?

If it's a home system, you won't need all that crap as you just park it in pos shields.

Not sure if really bad troll or seriously dumb.

Gevlin has a point though...
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#24 - 2012-03-26 22:07:59 UTC
Tech 3 commands are getting toned down Arse keep up wtih the conversation.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-03-26 22:24:18 UTC
Command Links give good bonuses but they have never been overpowered.

You already can't warp with the things on, and one more nerf and you might as well just remove the links all together.


Off course you could remove certain links and build them into the ship as bonuses and change the ship requirements accordingly.

THen make those ships have to be on grid.

At leat then you could be something more then a moving target.




EVERYBODY KNOWS
Arsedestroyer
Doomheim
#26 - 2012-03-26 22:25:35 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Tech 3 commands are getting toned down Arse keep up wtih the conversation.



Sounds good - got a link?
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#27 - 2012-03-26 22:36:18 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
I don't see a problem with them sitting off grid. If both sides use them then the fight should be even.

Why mess with my play style? Isn't this game a sandbox?

Jest aside. I do actually use ganglinks while on grid. But I hardly do any pvp. I don't see why you wouldn't have a ganglink ship on grid in small gangs. Large fleets I'm guessing that both sides would have similar gang boosting. You guys must be talking about medium sized gangs?

Edit: If I was taking a rorq on a mining op. I'd like to put up a small tower for it to sit in during the mining op. Having one sit out in the open could be bad. Have you seen the price of them now? I might start building them. Lucky that I already own one.
Revii Lagoon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2012-03-26 22:42:59 UTC
Talkietoaster wrote:
I could imagine something like this
- near Station / Gate: considerable nerf


Oh god that would be horrible considering the vast majority of fights are fought on gates.
Talkietoaster
Panta-Rhei
Synergy of Steel
#29 - 2012-03-27 20:30:33 UTC
Okay, never mind :-), in that case base the nerf factor purely on distance from grid or would you prefer no bonus at all when off grid ?

_"Why don't we just break out the lasers?" - _"An excellent plan, sir, with only two minor drawbacks. One, we don't have a power source for the lasers; and two, we don't have any lasers. " http://gplus.to/talkietoastereve
Severian Carnifex
#30 - 2012-03-27 20:33:20 UTC
don't nerf off grid boosting.
BOOST ON GRID BOOSTING.
Hayaishi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-03-27 20:35:20 UTC
Imo, the bonuses should be at 50% strength when off grid, and full strength on grid.

This way it's not all or nothing, but actually allows for game play variance.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-03-27 20:37:47 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
E man Industries wrote:
AraniFyr wrote:
It should be on grid...too big of an advantage for such low risk

Agreed, how ever command ships are primary....they need mor eof a buffer when boosting to exist on grid.



The Damnation is a prime example of how a CS should be build, like a motherfucking tank. Give the other CS's bonuses to their tanking as well, AND nerf off grid bonuses.


Command ship pilot here, I hate off grid boosting, I like to be on field.

First off, they are strong, cannot be doomsdays, really tough to alpha 300k ehp off the field, and with all +80% resists, you are not going to break any logistics on it.

Moreso, what might be needed is a midpoint command ship to bridge the mass fleet and the cap blob. Ganglink carriers do work. A different link battleship would help in the +100 fleet subcap fights.

I agree with Aiwha on the subject of more tank for the other CS. The passive regen needs to be fixed in order to allow vulture to get it's neede EHP. It runs a bit over 150k, not quite as good resists and has to have a huge sig size to do so.

The T3 are supposed to be multrole hull, however when a safespot or a pos exist, they will outboost the commships. Tank doesn't matter when nothing can shoot at it.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#33 - 2012-03-27 20:39:58 UTC
Command ships should give better bonuses than the do it all T3s anyway, and yes command linking ships should be on grid with their fleet.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
adopt
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-03-27 20:42:15 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
E man Industries wrote:
AraniFyr wrote:
It should be on grid...too big of an advantage for such low risk

Agreed, how ever command ships are primary....they need mor eof a buffer when boosting to exist on grid.

How much did the biggest tank have again .. 1/4M+ EHP (Damnation)?

Some slight tweaking of numbers will be necessary as in all things, but most commands/T3s are perfectly capable of surviving on-grid NOW provided they don't insist on sporting a full rack of links .. spread the love (read: bring more than 1 uber link ship) and you have all the tank you'll ever need


1.1 million EHP Proteus
\thread
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-03-27 20:42:30 UTC
Nerf them...nerf them HARD!

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Neddy Fox
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#36 - 2012-03-27 21:31:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Neddy Fox
Also FC/Command ship pilot here.

I was at all ship balance meetings, and raised the issues/questions about these ships.

IMO a T2 Command ship should be well tanked (EOS BUFF) , but also the T3 need some love after they get nerfed :

Drop the command processor requirement, and make them viable on grid, since that's not possible now. They need the same tank as a normal CS.

Points noted :

-CS will have 2 racial boosts / bonusses, 5% per level
-T3 will have 4 racial boosts / bonusses , 3% per level

Boosts on grid will be BETTER then offgrid; it still will give a bonus, but not as much.

Rorquals will NOT require to be on grid.

Titans where not mentioned, would be nice to get a statement from the devs here. Do they need to be on grid for max bonus as well?

The damnation is fine as is; IMO a normal tanked / painter Damnation tanks already over 400k EHP, the rest of these ships should have the same.. Make them HARD to kill, but of course not impossible; I guess a Mael Alpha fleet can do it instantly, but even then it should be hard.

ATM a damnation is normally never primary; a Vulture or Claymore dies way faster, and the Eos is just a joke; get them up to par.

And yes, on grid boosting ftw.


Also : atm a loki is STILL unscannable with max skills, t2 warfare links (sig radius). It's the only one though, so CCP check the hard cap on this..
(Tried with maxxed out probing alt with prospectors, sitting next to the loki, max result was 88%)
Kattshiro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-03-27 21:36:47 UTC
Talkietoaster wrote:
How about phasing the booster effect?

The booster effect could be at 100% if on grid and and the boost would be decreased with distance from grid?

Just a thought.


This is what I was in favor of.

But really if you dont fit a full rack of Co -pro, and cmd mods you can in fact fit a nasty tank... And heaven forbid shoot at something with remaining highs...or neut em might be more effective.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-03-27 21:41:29 UTC
Neddy Fox wrote:
Much excellent info, appreciated


That is all very cool info, /signed on it all. I found that a single link T3 was fairly effective, but not as a mass fleet fight. I always used the T3 during corp explorations and wormholes to support low mass and maneuverable fleets. The one part I am not sure I follow is the #boosts/bonuses. Does that mean command ships would only fit two links or does it mean they get two different racial boosts able to be applied?

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#39 - 2012-03-27 21:41:39 UTC
I'm fine with them being on grid. Our FC's have been on grid with them on a fairly regular basis, provided you have decent logi and the enemy isn't using proper alpha tactics (No one in game does to date) it shouldn't be too much of an issue. A few of our FC's fight from command ships, they are watch-listed and several of the logi have then pre-locked.

We generally only lose them if we lose the engagement in general.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2012-03-27 21:48:32 UTC
i'll make you a deal
I'll support off-grid boosters if I can shoot ships that are off-grid
what's fair is fair