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Vargur vs Machariel

Author
zappp brannigann
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-03-26 14:05:18 UTC
Ive read over the threads i could find by searching, and people seem to just throw out whichever one they prefer. Feel free to poke holes in my theory-fits. Trying to plan things out for the future. Looking at fast L4 missioning when i can actually fly one of these well enough

Vargur
4x Republic Fleet Gyro
1x Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer

100mn MWD
Tracking Computer II - Tacking Speed
2x Invuln Field II
Shield Boost Amp
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster

4x 800mm Artillery II
2x Auto Targeting System
Drone Link Augmentor

CCC I
Burst Aerator II

600 Tank
1054 DPS with Faction
3.9+47 Range
Cap Stable
.10 Tracking
1138 M/S with MWD

Machariel
4x Republic Fleet Gyro
3x Republic Fleet Tracking Enhancer

100mn MWD
Tracking Computer II - Tracking Speed
2x Invuln Field
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster

7x 800MM Artillery II
Auto Targeting System


2x Metastasis Adjuster I
CCC II

300 Tank
942 DPS with T1
4.2+69 Range
Cap Stable
.077 Tracking
1505 M/S with MWD




To me, it looks like the differences are

Speed: Mach - 400 M/S, which dosent seem like much but i am sure it would add up
Falloff: Mach - 20KM more falloff
Sensor Strength: Mach - Not very many missions with jamming, but they do seem to pay out well and marauders get the shaft


Tank: Vargur - Makes AE4 bonus room more comfortable, as well as any unexpected afks
Tracking: Vargur - Not really sure how much will make me able to hit cruisers/bc orbiting at 5k so this could be a wash
Ammo Costs and Logistics: Vargur - Able to use faction ammo for cheaper

DPS: Argueable. Vargur is 100 short with faction ammo vs t1 and sentries on mach. If you bump mach up to faction, its gains 200 extra dps.
Training time: About even with BSV vs SentryV

Is the tracking, tank, and ammo cost worth losing dps(30 - 200), falloff, and sensor?
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-03-26 14:33:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
you do not want to fly lvl4s with a 300ish tank. you also do not want to use pith a-type medium shield booster, as it is ~1.2bil on contracts.

you probably do not want to use MWDs because in most missions, you can just sit still and shoot.

i would advise you to look into a XL booster + cap booster build on both ships.

I should buy an Ishtar.

Captain Nares
O3 Corporation
#3 - 2012-03-26 14:41:54 UTC
No real differences for l4s between those ships.

Real difference is in skills required. Marauders require 5 lvl V skills. Marauder skill itself is useless for anything apart marauder.
Mach doesn't require any lvl V skills. Matar/Gall BS' are useful skills.
Mike712
Tenth Plague of Egypt
#4 - 2012-03-26 14:49:33 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
you do not want to fly lvl4s with a 300ish tank. you also do not want to use pith a-type medium shield booster, as it is ~1.2bil on contracts.

you probably do not want to use MWDs because in most missions, you can just sit still and shoot.

i would advise you to look into a XL booster + cap booster build on both ships.



Pithum A-type med is a perfect booster for lv4 missions, if cost is not an issue.

Both vargur and mach put out allot of DPS so you don't need much tank if you prioritize the right targets, besides the vargur gets about 500 DPS tank with pithum A-type med, T2 boost amp and T2 hardeners, which is almost over-tanked for most missions, the mach gets about 450 but can speed/sig tank.

Regards, Mike712 The BattleClinic Team

Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-03-26 14:52:29 UTC
Captain Nares wrote:

Real difference is in skills required. Marauders require 5 lvl V skills. Marauder skill itself is useless for anything apart marauder.
Mach doesn't require any lvl V skills. Matar/Gall BS' are useful skills.

^Most likely this.

I don't salvage much anymore, when I do, I have Noctis.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#6 - 2012-03-26 14:53:48 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
you do not want to fly lvl4s with a 300ish tank. you also do not want to use pith a-type medium shield booster, as it is ~1.2bil on contracts.

you probably do not want to use MWDs because in most missions, you can just sit still and shoot.
i would advise you to look into a XL booster + cap booster build on both ships.


Have you ever flow a mach?
zappp brannigann
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-03-26 14:58:02 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
you do not want to fly lvl4s with a 300ish tank. you also do not want to use pith a-type medium shield booster, as it is ~1.2bil on contracts.

you probably do not want to use MWDs because in most missions, you can just sit still and shoot.

i would advise you to look into a XL booster + cap booster build on both ships.

I used to fly a nightmare on a char i ended up selling. It had 450 tank and did fine. Never took it into AE4B however. Dont mind speding up to 1b on a module that will get me the tank i want, and be cap stable so i dont have to screw with boosters.

MWD for things like WC. AB takes much longer. 500M/S vs 1600M/S
zappp brannigann
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-03-26 14:59:38 UTC
Caleidascope wrote:
Captain Nares wrote:

Real difference is in skills required. Marauders require 5 lvl V skills. Marauder skill itself is useless for anything apart marauder.
Mach doesn't require any lvl V skills. Matar/Gall BS' are useful skills.

^Most likely this.

I don't salvage much anymore, when I do, I have Noctis.

This is why i hesitate on marauders. Good with tractors to make a lootball, but in actual practice it dosent hold up well.
zappp brannigann
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-03-31 22:32:09 UTC
bump
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#10 - 2012-03-31 23:17:01 UTC
I have flown them both extensively. It's a toss-up between them. DPS is comparable if you use faction ammo in the Vargur but not in the Mach. The Mach can get a lot of extra DPS from the Bouncers, but then it cannot move. Both these ships have ample tank and DPS. Honestly, apart from skills, it comes down to which you think looks better

My Vargur has an Energy Transfer because I tend to dual-box missions. Paired up with another Marauder, I can cut down the number of cap mods needed on each ship. With only one cap mod, the tank is still cap stable even without the energy transfer. I tend to just have one ship follow the other around and lay waste to everything with 2200 DPS. Don't need that much tank when you play that way. I have the tractor beam and the salvager on there, but I don't tend to waste much time looting. If I have some reason to loot/salvage (e.g. for an anti-Empire faction mission where I need the tags), I'll come back with a Noctis. I only use the tractor beam/salvager for ones or twos here and there most of the time. I don't worry about jamming - that's what the other ship is for - the odds of both ships being jammed is very small if you grab aggro properly. If I have to fight a lot of Guristas, I'm inclined to break out an Ishtar or Navy Dominix and laugh at the jamming

A pair of Machariels is also an awesome combination. I've also used them on the Minmatar epic arc several times with good results. Doesn't have as much tank as the Vargur, but it does a very lovely job. I tend to speed from warp-in to the first gate, drop sentries, kill everything, next room, repeat. I prefer T1 ammo because I feel like I can just start blasting at 60km and not worry about the expense

If I was forced to pick, I'd go with the Vargur, but that's because I already have Marauders V.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

stoicfaux
#11 - 2012-04-01 00:29:46 UTC
MWD Mach has better DPS because it can close the range quickly. Generally speaking, a T1 ammo Mach will match if the DPS of a RF ammo Vargur when the Mach is ~11km closer. Here's what I use for blitzing in minnie space: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/58393-Machariel-Level-4-Blitzer-MWD-Web-EW-Drones-Minmatar-Space.html
Immobile sentry drones are a waste of time, IMO. I use Webber and TP drones instead to improve tracking.

For the Vargur, I found that a Pithum C MSB was the bare minimum to use in Minnie space: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/59297-Vargur-Level-4-Minmatar-Space-Max-Gank-Min-Tank.html However, I've never tried it in the AE bonus room because AE is generally a waste of time.

It sounds like you should go with the Vargur. The Pithum A will provide more than enough tank, but I would still recommend swapping one of the invuls for a missions specific fit.

YMMV.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.