EVE General Discussion

This isn't the case.

The vocal minority is like this, but in general most EvE players are really good players who will bend over backwards to help you out.

Lets say you help out a newbie by hooking him up with a better frigate on day one and help him to figure out the UI and complete all of the tutorial missions. He's not going to understand the significance of that. But if you blew him up instead, he'll understand quite well. Therefore all the nice things go unnoticed, but the mean things don't.

I'm a member of a channel called "Mentors!" (with the exclamation point.) It's a group of veterans who assist players with all aspects of EvE. There are people in opposing factions in there who are constantly at war, yet in that channel they are completely civil and have a great time helping each other and other players out.

Personally, I've been in that channel since about my 2nd month in EvE. About 6 months ago I needed to move from contiguous high sec empire into Solitude high sec. I mentioned this in the Mentors channel asking if anyone had a good plan for moving large ships, and one guy said "Hey, I know of a wormhole that's going right into Solitude that's open right now. Meet me in Rens." We fleet up, I head to Rens, and he escorts me through low sec, and instead of blowing me up, he leads me to a wormhole that goes from low sec and sticks me right in the middle of Solitude high security space. There was even a pirate gate camp on one of low sec gates, but since he was friends with these pirates he convinced them to let me through.

My experience in EvE has been rather positive. Of course I've found people who have been trying to harass or kill me, but I expect that, and I don't hold it against them. I've lost a Caracal to a plastic/wrap renamed to PLEX bait, and does it suck? Sure. But I realized it was my own fault for not understanding the situation, picked myself back up, and even convo'd the guy who did it. He was very well mannered, and I congratulated him on the bait, and he said that if I wanted in on the action he would even invite me into his corporation. (Whether or not he was doing it just to be able to kill me over and over again, or if he was legitimate I'm not sure. But he seemed like a nice guy from the 20-30 min convo we had.)

Perhaps its your perspective. When doing battle in the economy on any MMO I expect people to do the equivalent of 0.01 isking me. Therefore I don't get upset when people undercut me. And in EvE I expect people to scam me, I expect people to try to blow me up in low sec, and I expect people to bait me with plastic wrap renamed to PLEX. Therefore I don't get upset.

In my experience EvE has had more friendly players than unfriendly ones. And most people who are the "unfriendly" ones are just using game mechanics to their advantage. If you don't like these game mechanics, then you don't like EvE, and you would be better off adjusting your attitude or not playing EvE.

Sombre Asesinos,

I invite you (and anyone else) to join the channel "Mentors!" and come hang with us. We have a good time, and if you ever need help, just ask. It doesn't matter who you're allied with or your skill level, there are always things in EvE to learn about, and we can help while enjoying the game.

on the other hand , people dont know the difference between real new players and "just another alt" from the enemy to spy with
most of the times its nothing personal , just an extreme way to protect the space we are controlling and get ride of the spies.

dont judge a book from its cover goes to both sides :)

Same thing here.

I am not amused.

Want my time back.


too fail; didn't post:
Wrote some pretty good stuff about picking through beyond the basic interaction layer to get at the actual EVE player which comes in all types. Alas, you will never know what you missed now and probably quit.

You're missing on a less obvious part of the EVE sandbox experience. The shenanigans in the forums is also part of the gameplay, which becomes interesting at times. Not many players take it that way. Drama spills over back and forth due to the single shard persistent world and I must say, the latter is one of the strongest reason why I'm still playing this game.



One word, natural social pecking order ... well several words

I see typical players who type out these questions concentrate on the word "hate" as if it's some personal vendetta against them. Well, it's not, most of the times. The social environment in EVE greatly mirrors what you see in RL. Everything that you see in RL that humans are capable off, will have some sort of equivalent in EVE.

How do you survive? Simple, use your own intelligence. Know your strengths and weakness in relations to the game mechanics. Avoid taking insults and losses personally (which might be very hard for some type of people). Do not antagonize people or foes unless you're prepared for the consequences. These are really common sense that applies in RL, if you think it doesn't apply to EVE, you're wrong.

Part of the reason why new players get picked apart in EVE is because of their naturally shallow knowledge of the game mechanics. This makes them target numero uno. You have this imaginary bullseye painted over the new players, and many of the EVE denizens will not be able to resist from trying .... just to ellicit a few lols and tears from the drama that it would entail. Sadistic? Not really. It's part of growing up imo. Yes, I'll admit the retention bar is higher due to the ragging, but I don't think it needs a change. It's fundamentally part of EVE's unique gameplay.

Now, it's not all dark and depressing. Given a good reason, perfect strangers would do things that would pleasantly surprise you .... yes, in EVE. One of the best, more recent examples of this comes from the Incursion community. I can tell you stories that would make the average EVE player go Wut?, accompanied by legions of naysayers shouting Blasphemy! It's essentially an environment that rewards players who play nice (and constructive) - which is quite a paradigm shift from the typical mayhem and destruction theme coming from EVE game designers. Who would have thought eh? (I grudgingly tip my hat off to Uncle Soundwave). The next question is, will we see more of this?

I once described eve a place where people

This is the draw of EVE and what makes it different and more satisfying then the themepark MMO's that stick you on the rails and hold your hand all the way to your first Raid. Loss has consequence when you blow someone's ship and pod up you aren't just sending them back to their bind point where they will respawn dust themselves off and come right back out. They have to replace those assets and upgrade their clone and buy new implants, unless they have the cash reserves they're going to have to figure out how to replace that isk.

That risk is what makes it interesting and a large part of that risk is the fact that people can play the villain. You'll hear people repeat time and time again that "it's just a game" and this is both true and slightly dishonest at the same time. It's true because we'll this quite literally is a game someone blowing you ship up isn't causing you any real substantive harm, they aren't coming over to your house and breaking your bones they're just destroying your pixel assets, which shouldn't cause you any problems in real life unless you are so stupid that you blow money you can't afford on GTC's and well if you do that it's on you.

It's dishonest at the same time since just because something is a game doesn't mean people won't have an emotional attachment to it. Hell look at all these crazy football fans out there who spend thousands on travel and tickets so they can pain themselves in their team colors and see the games live on TV. Hell they'll even get into actual fist fights over the actions of people who quite literally don't know they exist.

It's dishonest because we know that we're causing people emotional distress when they get all butthurt about a loss and we taunt them about it. Truth is though that if they can't deal with that loss in a mature way they really aren't cut out for this game and quite honestly we're doing them a favor getting them to rage quit saving them both money and continued emotional distress.

To properly enjoy this game you have to be able to handle such loss and laugh about it. If you can't lose a 2 billion isk ship or a set of high-grade pirate implants and laugh it off it's only a matter of time until something is going to happen that sets you off into a bout of nerd rage and the more time you invested in the game the worse it will be.

Because it is a game, and a significant part of that game is trying to destroy other peoples assets while building up your own. A chess player doesn't get mad because his opponent takes his pawn (well a mature moderately well adjusted one doesn't) though they might get somewhat mad if they are beaten they generally won't go into a fit of rage accusing their opponent of being a sociopathic sadist.

The same goes for losing assets in this game. It's a part of the game just like taking your opponents pawn in chess, as such people who go all emo about often get their well deserved mocking.

As to the community's attitude, from my experience and observations the people who get grief are the ones who don't get what I just explained. The ones who are all whinny and rage about this injustice or that and accuse their opponents of all sorts mental and criminal abnormalities. The ones who are mature about such losses and don't act like angsty teenage crybabies however, the ones who are indeed willing to learn and accept what kind of game it is will find that they get all sorts of useful advice from people who really are helpful, not in the useless sympathetic ear way but in real practical advice.

Basically don't be a whinny emo douchebag and for the most part the majority of the community will be extremely helpful. Hell if you can take a joke and don't take yourself too seriously many of the trolls give good advice it just tends to be laced with heavy doses of sarcasm.



BTW I think it's pretty sad that I've had to develop the habit copying every post to the clipboard before hitting the post button.

You are not unique. You are not different. The way you describe yourself acting is the majority of EvE in my experience. Like I said in my post above good deeds aren't noticed the same way bad deeds are. Give a newbie a frigate and/or some starting isk, and he won't understand what it means. Blow a newbie up, and he'll understand what it means.

I don't think so. But they don't think that new players should get a free pass bye their virtue of being new players. Especially as you can't readily distinguish a noob from a alt.

We all got horribly ganked when we started, but those whose stayed understood what they did wrong and adjusted their way. Pro tip : the error wasn't to go in a 0.4. The error was going in the wrong ship and the wrong fit.

I think a lot of the class went out of the game when the goons decided to stay. They are self-declared griefers. WTF is a griefer? not someone out to build an empire or a glorious name for themselves. someone out to ruin someone elses' day. someone hell bent on scamming anybody dumb enough or naive enough to fall for it. someone who prides himself on blowing up not just ten but a hundred defenseless newbie frigs.

Let me correct that. Goons and low-sec pirates (such as the guys camping rancer 23/7) do want a glorious name for themselves. But in the process they redefined glory to meaning "being the greatest psycho barbarian destroyer" instead of something more traditional such as "feared conqueror of equals".

Thats a negative goal. destroying stuff has become what this game is all about. kicking over the other kids sandcastle has become the norm. the guy whose castle is kicked over is a stupid chump for letting that happen. building stuff is for carebears. and those are sorry creatures.

In other mmo's those who like to build instead of fight are honored, prized. called crafters. makers. not derided as carebears. What i find hard to get is why there still are minerals being mined, rats being shot and goods being hauled in this culture.

I wonder why the hell i'm still giving a **** about eve. loyal as a dog i guess. love to look at purty spaceships once in a while. the game died for me when a bunch of drunks and goons destroyed ISS. When they died, 0.0 ceased being the frontier, and became the wasteland.

Sadly I have no idea how to turn the eve culture around. I dont even know if that is at all possible. How can you change a thousands minds, if changing just one can seem impossible?

How can we redefine glory to mean something more than fearsome again? Can building something become glorious again? Finding something? How about a bank that is -not- a scam for a change? How about a fleet that sweeps clean sectors of low-sec so they can be mined and ratted for fun and profit? How can these things become cool again, things to brag about and looked up to for?

This is a horrible post. Don't do this again.

Eve will go mainstream when we have WIS and can /dance.