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Ship Racial Design Consistency please!

Author
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-03-24 16:54:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Darthewok
OK, the new Reaper design made me question whether the graphic designers are paying attention to racial design consistency for ships. The other rookie ships were fine, but the Reaper was so far out of the Minmatar design philosophy it was shocking.

So, here is a suggestion:
Designers please compile a list of adjectives describing each race and check your new designs against those adjectives
For example

Caldari - we are the most hi-tech and want to show off our technical superiority with hi-tech jet looking designs
-Straight edges
-Hitech, lots of electronics, lights, antenna
-Silver finish
-Assymetric (actually I hope this is no longer followed as it makes Caldari look terrible)
By this measure, the Caldari rookie ship is pretty much in line, hi-tech, straight edges.
Good job here.

Minmatar - we are tough and spartan so we only need the essentials on our ships, minimalist with some tribal motifs
-Boxy, Girder-y
-Unfinished Rusty Third World Iron Girders
-Sails (Solar Panels?)
-Think of steel superstructure of skyscrapers, steel girders
-Industrial Crude/unrefined
By this measure, the Minmatar rookie ship is very much out of line
Its too curvy, the sails don't look like the others in the ship line
It looks too refined compared to the industrial crude feel
And the guns are too large

Gallente - we are refined and cultured, our ships look like sculpture to spread our cultural superiority
-Curvy, no sharp edges
-Bulbous
-Greenish
-Bomber-like cockpits, sometimes at the side like the Millennium
The middle of the rookie ship has too many straight lines and a bit too hi-tech, it looks Caldari-like
However, it is saved by the cockpit that looks bulbous and curvy, so it remains consistent
Just watch not to add too many straight lines in the future

Amarr - we are the dominant race, our ships project our might like tough golden battering rams that will smash you
-Golden
-Lights
-Armored shell (golden) all over, built to take a hit
-Ornate detail
-Phallic or Beak/Hawk-like shape battering rams
You nailed it. Looks completely Amarr

Just my 0.02 ISK. Don't want to see any more new ships that totally do not look like they came from the race.
It breaks immersion.
So please add a "Racial Ship Design Consistency" check to your ship design process.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
#2 - 2012-03-24 17:13:52 UTC
it was brought up at the art pannel at Fanfest too and the artists actually seemed suprised someone thought it didnt fit in
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-03-24 17:33:38 UTC
Linda Shadowborn wrote:
it was brought up at the art pannel at Fanfest too and the artists actually seemed suprised someone thought it didnt fit in


Yeah, I saw that over the stream. It shocked me that they don't see Reaper is off.
If it was just slightly off, I wouldn't bother, but it looks so far off from Minmatar it is troubling.
It showed they don't have any process to think through or check for racial ship consistency.
The talent and skill is certainly there shown by the Caldari and Amarr ships.
That's why this post. not a criticism. Just a suggestion to CCP.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

Gellenter Pl
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-03-24 19:52:44 UTC
Caldari should be symetric
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#5 - 2012-03-24 20:03:46 UTC
Gellenter Pl wrote:
Caldari should be symetric


No it shouldn't, it's a committee work where each party designs their part without consulting each other; Caldari capitalism at its finest.
Skorpynekomimi
#6 - 2012-03-24 20:18:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Skorpynekomimi
Found my stash of rookie ships today, and checked one. The Reaper looks like the gallente tried to design a minmatar ship. Not boxy and girdery enough.

(A stash of rookie ships? I don't like leaving them around cluttering up my assets list, I refuse to throw anything away, and I can't scrap them, so they get accumulated.)

Economic PVP

Whiteknight03
Trilon Industries and Exploration
#7 - 2012-03-24 20:27:12 UTC
Not sure what all the upset is about. Minmatar ships look like crap. The reaper still looks like crap. Just because someone decided a cockpit should actually consist of one part does not make it less minmatar, just slightly smarter design.
Vito Antonio
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-03-24 21:02:56 UTC
Assymetric are the reason why new players leave EVE after completing tutorial, the reason why vets are bitter and the reason why miners get ganked.
Sitreba Oonchevkii
#9 - 2012-03-25 00:10:11 UTC
Gellenter Pl wrote:
Caldari should be symetric


agreed, the new scorpion looks incredible, as does the tengu and the merlin, which are all symmetrical

Blod-red skies, strange beings, and the number 514, often written in blood.

Clyde ElectraGlide
Emara Entertainment Inc.
#10 - 2012-03-25 03:41:00 UTC
More Caldari ships should be asymmetric. The Moa is the most awesome-looking ship in the game because it looks like a duck with a briefcase.

In Need of a New Signature

Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#11 - 2012-03-25 06:28:51 UTC
Sitreba Oonchevkii wrote:
Gellenter Pl wrote:
Caldari should be symetric


agreed, the new scorpion looks incredible, as does the tengu and the merlin, which are all symmetrical


Ships should not look like animals. Especially animals from Earth, a place where we havn't been in over 20,000 years. This is not beast wars or something.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-03-25 07:15:06 UTC
Yawn ...

So the OP wants every gallante ship to look like a moldy potato ... Every caldari ship like a gray shoebox ... every amarr ship like your girlfriends golden special ... and every minnie ship like they have allready been blown up into wrecks.

Id rather go with the "general concept lines" ... and I think CCP has done a good job with that.
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-03-25 07:51:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Darthewok
Cedo Nulli wrote:
Yawn ...

So the OP wants every gallante ship to look like a moldy potato ... Every caldari ship like a gray shoebox ... every amarr ship like your girlfriends golden special ... and every minnie ship like they have allready been blown up into wrecks.

Id rather go with the "general concept lines" ... and I think CCP has done a good job with that.


Re: Gallente, curvy and bulbous can give rise to many many beautiful shapes and designs, definitely not just a potato.
Myrmidon, Megathron, Moros are no potatoes. Look at Boticelli, very beautiful sculptures using curves and bulges.
To me, Gallente ships look like they were sculptured, like works of art.

Re: Caldari, straight edges and hi-tech is very loose direction, within it you can have a very wide variety of ships. There is the Drake but also the Tengu. And it is not dull grey, but shiny silver like modern fighter jets. But yes, I hate the assymetric look and I doubt too many people want to keep that. In my mind, Caldari look the most like Terran ships in Starcraft. Or AWACs, modern aircraft.

Re: Amarr, what problem do you have with gold and phallic/avian looks? These shapes suggest power and dominance, which is valued in the Amarr race. Always a crowd pleaser. Sort of like the space Romulans. Pretty sure there is a very wide variety of shapes that can work within that design paradigm.

Anyway, its up to the artists. As long as there is some effort to harmonize new designs with some characteristics of what went before. They do not need to adhere extremely closely to the characteristics, but at least make some effort so new designs do not look out of place in the ship line.

Ah, actually the problem may be only that the artists don't have a clear vision of the Minmatar line.
Well, just my opinion is Minmatar empire is a Tribal Third World Empire so the ships should look functional but not slick as costs are saved on anything not necessary.
Think the steel girders and scaffolding of buildings and skycrapers without the slick exterior.
It may help if people articulate what it is that makes Minmatar look Minmatar.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

Kolya Medz
Kolya Inc.
#14 - 2012-03-26 01:15:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Kolya Medz
The artists definitely need to read into the lore a lot more. Having inconsistent ships is lame, one of the things that attracted me to Eve was the differences between the race's technology, engineering, and design philosophies.

I'm glad those artists got a wake up call at the fanfest table, i don't want to see another ship replaced with an out of place hull, lookin at you maller/sac.

That hull did not look like an amarr hull to me. The shape was too caldari, the armor wasn't shiny like other Amarr ships, and it was seriously lacking on cool lights. It was too new and hi-tech looking, like the Legion and Tengu made babies. This is a race that uses the same ship design for centuries.. it should be reflected in their ships hulls, especially tech I.

Not saying the old maller hull was better, but the new one just didn't quite fit.

Also, they ruined the old Khanid colours, Matte black? Plain silver? Very dull and boring, and matte on an amarr ship!??! Heresy!

The old colours on the otherhand... shiny black w/ dark burnished silver and tons of blue blinky lights? They were pure sex. When I show someone Eve for the first time, I'm in a khanid ship.

I'm not even gonna comment on the reaper.. that new design is so un-minmatar its laughable.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-03-26 03:36:56 UTC
I have to agree that the new sac/maller looks abit out of place ... it doesent look bad but like the previous poster said ... Too much caldari in the mix.

There would be simple fix to it thou. Just add the similar finish bling like in the punishers .. this "rune" sidepanel and proper golden sidepanels ... not just the booring desert camo yellow.
Sinigr Shadowsong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-03-26 05:42:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Sinigr Shadowsong
Minmatar ships are so ugly (esp. Rupture, Tempest, Typhoon, Mamonth) that it can stop new players from flying them. I hope they will remake those ships to more eye-pleasing versions. It seams that they was made back in 2003 by amateurs. New Reaper is perfectly in line with Tornado, Loki and Angel Cartel ships.
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-03-26 06:52:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Darthewok
Kolya Medz wrote:
The artists definitely need to read into the lore a lot more. Having inconsistent ships is lame, one of the things that attracted me to Eve was the differences between the race's technology, engineering, and design philosophies.


Good point.
Yes, the ship design characteristics should portray the race's philosophies.

Caldai = Technological superiority
In a competitive corporate culture like the Caldari, there would be a constant arms race for technology.
Therefore new Caldari ships would constantly look more and more hi-tech, like modern fighter jets.
Its all about who has the most advanced looking craft around.
I think the devs seem to have no problem with Caldari as their culture is close to Earth culture!
The problem is most of the stuff they do look Caldari-ish.

Gallente = Cultural superiority
The Gallente on the other hand are French descendants and would probably place a premium on culture and style.
Their ships are a way to show their artistic sculpture, not just function.
It must look like a curvy sculpture and show cultural superiority.
The odder and more innovative the better, it shows the free liberal principles of the Federation.
Forget functionality and straight lines, that is so pedestrian and boring. Let the cruder cultures do those.

Minmatar = Spartan warrior macho
The Minmatar are tribal warriors who pride themselves on their resilience.
The bare-bones configuration of their ships show they do not need the comforts of softer races.
Too slick finishing or blended lines makes Minmatar look like Caldari.
Minmatar needs to look a bit more rough and tumble. Think aggressive space motorcycles.
One way to make Minmatar look better is to use more tribal flourishes on their ships.
This makes their ships look more interesting yet distinctive.

Amarr = Willpower and glorious history
The Amarr are strong willed. Their ships should look like golden armored battering rams that can last for decades.
Their tradition is long and a source of pride, so traditional flourishes should be on their ships.
If an Amarr ship does not look like it can crash into other ships and demolish them, it is not Amarr.
Also, watch out for making Amarr ships look too hi-tech. It makes them look Caldari.
Amarr can upgrade their technology, but do not need to show it off on the outside of their ships.
Proud unchanging tradition on the outside in gold.

Maybe this helps.

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#18 - 2012-03-26 07:23:53 UTC
Clyde ElectraGlide wrote:
More Caldari ships should be asymmetric. The Moa is the most awesome-looking ship in the game because it looks like a duck with a briefcase.


It is the Eagle actually cause it's shinny too. Other than this miniscule correction I wanted to be able to give you one like for pointing out the obvious and an additional like for glorious duck with briefcase comment. Can't so make do with the one Bear
Aethlyn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-03-26 07:51:27 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
Ships should not look like animals. Especially animals from Earth, a place where we havn't been in over 20,000 years. This is not beast wars or something.

Would knowledge get lost as a whole? 6000 years ago people drew and wrote about mythical creatures with all kinds of horns, wings, etc. and we still know about it despite of conflics being bigger than anything before, civilizations getting lost, etc. It's not that unrealistic. It's still about three to four times that time span, however there are more people and more ways to preserve that knowledge.

As for Minmatar hulls, I'll simply wait what they have in mind. Looking at the minmatar V3 ships (Tornado, Reaper and Hound concept art) I can clearly see what they have in mind. They indeed want to get rid of some of the very simple shapes. Is it bad? No, they just don't want the new models to look odd or old again. You can add a cube to that ship to keep it looking "rough", but at the same time these days this looks "cheap" or "dated", so they add more polygons to the edges, making them a bit more round whole still keeping them quite edgy (in comparison to Amarr and Gallente). Same is true for solar sails (compare the Tornado with the Tempest and you'll clearly see the difference and where they're heading) and other elements (e.g. antennae).

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Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-03-26 08:13:46 UTC
Pretty much feels like they threw some rust and sails (and curvy sails, what the heck?) on a Caldari ship and called it a day.

Wait, what? Those fools are actually saying it doesn't fit in? But it has ruuuuuuuuussssssssstttttttttttt...

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21

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