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Fanfest: War Declarations

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Velicia Tuoro
Light Speed Interactive
#1 - 2012-03-24 12:36:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicia Tuoro

    Why redesign?

  • Inferno was war themed, therefore we wanted to look at it.
  • Big enough problem to dedicate a team to.
  • Examined and war system was underutilized. lacks clear concept. Used for mutual fights or griefing
  • Decided to give wars more structure. Make them harder to get out of.
  • Does this fit all the game play styles?

  • Explored several designs on how to fit more aggressive/hardcore war system
  • Kept it simple in the end: Every player corp needs to accept that they can be war decc'd regardless of play style.
  • The only way to avoid war decs is to stay in an NPC corp. Need to keep an eye on this.
  • Players will have more options when conducting war. More ways to get involved. More ways to counter
  • Declaring also has higher changes of backfiring, keeping them in check. Declaring war is more of a commitment.
  • Wanted to add more clarity want to expand system to be become interesting outside of hi sec.
  • To do this, wars need to provide solid structure and provide more information

    • Goals
  • Tighten so it becomes clear how start/proceed/end
  • Make clear how the war is progressing for strategic and status
  • Make fighting a war a viable career path for merc corps.

    • Summary so far.
  • Wars are harder to get out of
  • wars have better structure
  • Info about status is improved
  • More options for corps at war
  • Career path for Merc Corps.

    • All still work in progress. Slated for inferno release. Stuff is subject to change.

  • Removes war shielding: Remove number of wars defender is in from the war cost forumal. Number of wars the aggressor is in is still a modifier. *applause here*
  • War shedding (phony alliance) Corps leaving an Alliance continue all wars the alliance has as a new independent war. *applause here*
  • If we find further ways to escape, they will be plugged. Policy is to make wars more impactful, therefore you can't easily escape them
  • Base prices is now 20mill, rather than 2. Improves isk sink and makes it more of a consideration
  • Size of defender corp is a modifier for cost of war. More expensive for a bigger corp. You are paying for more war targets. small (5man corps) are almost never decc'd. Therefore helps expand war.
  • CEO/Director makes decision. No more voting *applause*
  • Wars can no longer be retracted by the aggressor when their want. Therefore more committing.
  • Defender can only declare war mutual in 24 hours before war starts. Will remain mutual. Undecided on this one yet.
  • Wars will last for a minimal of a week unless one side surrenders.
  • Before week is up, aggressor chooses to extend. You pay the cost to extend it. Cost can change from week to week, based on size of target corp.
  • Either side can offer a surrender, but can only have one offer at a time. Offer can include ISK. Other side has 24hours to respond or make a counter offer.
  • If surrender is concluded, enforced peace period of a week starts between corps. You cannot war dec each other for 7 days

    • War Report
  • All losses inflicted by each side are tracked in a war report
  • Details include links killmails, ship classes, timelines for major battles. Losses in ISK/ships.
  • Reports is available to all war participants
  • Everything can now have value calculated for it. (e.g. titans)
  • Killmails have had face lift, more graphics and more data. Shouldn't affect API, but will assist if it does.
  • In game killmail looks like a killboard page.

    • War history
  • Every corp and alliance will have a publicly available war history. All active and concluded wars
  • Shows losses inflicted on both sides in the war and allies involved. Details not nailed down yet.
  • Rank lists based on win/loss ration isk values etc. Probably not in Inferno, but planned
  • Character war history, show if the character deserts corps! Probably not in Inferno, but planned.

    • War Options
  • Defender corp can call an ally to their aid. This can be another corp or alliance. An aggressor can never call an ally. Joins after 24hours of accepting
  • There restrictions to how many allies a corp can have *applause*
  • Ally joins the defender on the report and stays till war ends.
  • Ally contract can involve isk. Paid up front and does not recur every week.

    • Mercenary Marketplace
  • Working title not in game name.
  • Get to it through War ui or contract ui
  • CEO/Director can create new type of contract. Tentatively called Ally Negotiation. More like an application of willing to help, or notice of needing help.
  • Negotiation can occur over contract. Accept, Decline, Counter-offer
  • Several entities can negotiate, but only one offer can be accepted.

  • Considering Treaty systems. Non-aggression pacts etc
  • Other things in the mix, but not being released yet as under heavy debate.

    • Questions:
  • Current cost: 20mill + 500,000 per member in target corp.
  • Review the rating of allys/contracts. Not in inferno, but being considered.
  • Any plans to consider logi in war reports. No: but want to add in some form later. Killmails only show damage inflict. Want to show other ways participating. Not in inferno, hopefully later
  • Question about only using subscribed accounts in inflating costs. Agreed this was a good suggestion and looking at it.

Senior Representative Light Speed Interactive http://www.lightspeedinteractive.net
gfldex
#2 - 2012-03-24 12:43:16 UTC  |  Edited by: gfldex
Before the whining that is ENDLESS starts I would like to point out that war decs have a function. It tells a bad CEO that he or she is a bad CEO and need to change that. And yes, small *beep*y corps are *beep*ed.

Props to Velicia Tuoro for shamelessly fast typing. :)

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#3 - 2012-03-24 12:43:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
There are going to be so many new mercenary corps! Lol

As for carebear corps not being able to 'take control of the wardec and stopping it themselves' : just hire a while punch of mercs to pound them into submission. Once allied, the mercs will remain around and at some point the wardeccer will just stop paying.

It would be better though if then the defender can make the war mutual (after they got allies), making it no longer possible for the agressor to stop the war unless THEY formally surrender.

Choking in a bigger bite then you can chew is what balances the new wardec mechanic for the smaller corporations.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Velicia Tuoro
Light Speed Interactive
#4 - 2012-03-24 12:45:18 UTC
gfldex wrote:
Props to Velicia Tuoro for shamelessly fast typing. :)


My fingers hurt after this one!

Senior Representative Light Speed Interactive http://www.lightspeedinteractive.net
Velicia Tuoro
Light Speed Interactive
#5 - 2012-03-24 12:48:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicia Tuoro
Great tweet here:

Quote:
Matt B ‏ @Northern_Goblin
So that's 770 mil a week to dec E-Uni folks. Have fun with that. #EVEFanfest #Tweetfleet


http://tinyurl.com/7jot4up

Senior Representative Light Speed Interactive http://www.lightspeedinteractive.net
Maria Solano
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-03-24 12:49:50 UTC
Looking forward to this :))
BeanBagKing
The Order of Atlas
#7 - 2012-03-24 12:52:37 UTC
Best question I've seen on fanfest so far (not mine, wish I could take credit).

Why are they going to mark/penalize (I'm not exactly sure how, missed that part) people that leave a corp during a war, but not botters?

Lol
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#8 - 2012-03-24 12:54:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Revolution Rising
I wonder why they haven't allowed for a non-wardec option at the inception of a corp. So the corp cannot take part in wardecs at all EVER for the serious carebear high-sec miners/researchers ?

Edit: altho I guess the 0.0 corps would all choose that option too :\

.
Tam Althor
Commonwealth Industries
#9 - 2012-03-24 12:54:57 UTC
wow, this guy keeps saying they want war decs hardcore, but the aggressor is always allowed to drop the dec by not paying. Make it real hardcore.... you start a dec you get locked into it no matter how many allies your target brings until you surrender.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#10 - 2012-03-24 12:56:36 UTC
Wow this war dec stuff seems like its going to kill small starting up corps completely. Now there's no way out of wars, no downside for aggressors but a massive downside for defenders. It's basically going to be, disband your corp or log off.

There needs to be a downside for the aggressor too. Like they said, most war dec corps are made of alts. Hell, my alts are in war dec corps lol.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
#11 - 2012-03-24 12:56:46 UTC
BeanBagKing wrote:
Best question I've seen on fanfest so far (not mine, wish I could take credit).

Why are they going to mark/penalize (I'm not exactly sure how, missed that part) people that leave a corp during a war, but not botters?

Lol


Because bot tengu #59356373208346076 could really care less if it was caught for botting, as the account ban it will get is far more serious.
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#12 - 2012-03-24 12:59:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
Tam Althor wrote:
wow, this guy keeps saying they want war decs hardcore, but the aggressor is always allowed to drop the dec by not paying. Make it real hardcore.... you start a dec you get locked into it no matter how many allies your target brings until you surrender.


If the defender has teeth and makes it mutual the aggressor cannot pull out until they surrender.

edit: teeth is a nicer word than balls
gfldex
#13 - 2012-03-24 13:00:13 UTC
BeanBagKing wrote:
Why are they going to mark/penalize (I'm not exactly sure how, missed that part) people that leave a corp during a war, but not botters?


Because of alts.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Geister Bob
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-03-24 13:00:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Geister Bob
Size of defender corp is a modifier for cost of war. More expensive for a bigger corp. You are paying for more war targets. small (5man corps) are almost never decc'd. Therefore helps expand war.


This of course should be the other way around! The agressor should pay a fee based on the number of members the agressing corp has. Otherwise it will be an extorsion-fest for the griefing, bigger corps. Also: during the war, members of the agressing corp can leave, but none can join. (Corp being decced: maybe other way around...)
ivar R'dhak
Deus est Mechanicus
#15 - 2012-03-24 13:03:27 UTC
Heh, I think I saw my first DEV flee from a presentation(the Warddec pres.).
Didn´t look too happy about the round-table later either. Lol

And come on, the removal of the rise in wardec fee by number of corps who have declared will be a total rapetrain by alt higsec campers. Roll
That´s just what struck me from watching the presentation. Haven´t thought much about it yet, too fricken early for that.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#16 - 2012-03-24 13:05:13 UTC
Velicia Tuoro wrote:
Great tweet here:

Quote:
Matt B ‏ @Northern_Goblin
So that's 770 mil a week to dec E-Uni folks. Have fun with that. #EVEFanfest #Tweetfleet


http://tinyurl.com/7jot4up



Not to mention that EVE-U could probably get a ton of PvP-orientated corps to ally with them for free.

That's also why small corps really shouldn't be too scared of wardecs. 25 million ISK for a 5-men corp is just not worth it. And even then they can likely get a ton of cheap mercs to join them.

The amount of people that are going merc in Inferno is going to be insane.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
#17 - 2012-03-24 13:07:58 UTC
I don't like the new war dec thingy...it looks like they replaced a fcked up system with another fcked up system, but renamed "retract war" with "don't pay bills anymore".

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 
ColumnaLcis
Pretzel Logic.
#18 - 2012-03-24 13:08:41 UTC
Well this looks interesting indeed.

...
BeanBagKing
The Order of Atlas
#19 - 2012-03-24 13:10:43 UTC
Patient 2428190 wrote:
BeanBagKing wrote:
Best question I've seen on fanfest so far (not mine, wish I could take credit).

Why are they going to mark/penalize (I'm not exactly sure how, missed that part) people that leave a corp during a war, but not botters?

Lol


Because bot tengu #59356373208346076 could really care less if it was caught for botting, as the account ban it will get is far more serious.


First and second bans are only temporary (what is it? like 3 days or something?) so they aren't really that serious. As for alts, I'm sure some are. I think the point is more that this is something a lot more players have suggested and care about in the past, and is certainly seen as something more serious (from, IMO, both an in game and EULA perspective). With the blemish thing, they've shown they are willing to "mark" players, so why would they not go ahead and do it to botters, even if 90% of them don't care. I'd say 90% of people that bail on a corp during a war probably don't care either.
Gordon Fell
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-03-24 13:10:46 UTC
Geister Bob wrote:
Size of defender corp is a modifier for cost of war. More expensive for a bigger corp. You are paying for more war targets. small (5man corps) are almost never decc'd. Therefore helps expand war.


This of course should be the other way around! The agressor should pay a fee based on the number of members the agressing corp has. Otherwise it will be an extorsion-fest for the griefing, bigger corps. Also: during the war, members of the agressing corp can leave, but none can join. (Corp being decced: maybe other way around...)


Seems more like it should cut both ways, have the modifier mix **** up anything but a 'fair' fight (rougly equal numbers against equal numbers). I feel cheap grieving is always lame; if you want to screw someone, pay up in sec and gank ship isk.
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