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Faction Warfare: Preventing Docking is a Stupid Idea
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Fleet Warpsujarento
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-03-24 01:25:59 UTC
-Faction Warfare is in lowsec.
-Piracy is in lowsec.
-Faction Warfare players fight pirates. (Often more than they fight

Therefore, not being able to dock puts FW players at a disadvantage against pirates.
Therefore, there is a new incentive to leave faction warfare to be better at PvP.
Tahna Rouspel
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-03-24 01:33:06 UTC
I believe it's meant to prevent enemy faction in faction warfare from docking. So neutral players and pirates wouldn't be affected. I might be wrong though.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#3 - 2012-03-24 01:37:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
Assuming you're the FW player who cannot dock in the system you want to roam in, consider fighting for your faction to re-capture that system. That's the whole point of the changes to occupancy consequences, to get people to want to fight for systems instead of aimlessly roam around.

Assuming you're the pirate, you wouldn't be affected by the docking restrictions.

"Neutrals can still dock. Just so we understand."

--CCP Ytterbium

EDIT; If you don't want to fight for systems, FW isn't the place to be. There are other places in the game that provide aimless PvP. Piracy, wardecs, 0.0

Katrina Oniseki
Souvera Corvus
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
#4 - 2012-03-24 01:39:51 UTC
Initial reaction is that it'll make fights a bit harder to come by as factions stick to their own systems.

Haven't seen the detail in which the devil is concealed though.
JamesCLK
#5 - 2012-03-24 01:40:03 UTC
Tahna Rouspel wrote:
I believe it's meant to prevent enemy faction in faction warfare from docking. So neutral players and pirates wouldn't be affected. I might be wrong though.


Nope, you're pretty much right. There would probably be restrictions to prevent just jumping militias (cooldown timer or sommit) but apart from that neutrals aren't affected. The idea there is that the FW guys holding the system should promote neutral traders to supply their stations- or sommit like that.

-- -.-- / -.-. .-.. --- -. . / .. ... / - --- --- / . -..- .--. . -. ... .. ...- . / - --- / ..- -. -.. --- -.-. -.- / ... - --- .--. / .--. .-.. . .- ... . / ... . -. -.. / .... . .-.. .--. / ... - --- .--.
Fleet Warpsujarento
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-03-24 01:43:36 UTC
Tahna Rouspel wrote:
I believe it's meant to prevent enemy faction in faction warfare from docking. So neutral players and pirates wouldn't be affected. I might be wrong though.


Yes, therefore pirates can dock, but enemy FW cannot. That makes it far more difficult to fight in enemy space. Pirates do not have this disadvantage.
Magnus Orin
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-03-24 01:45:51 UTC
Standings prevent us Nullsec players from docking in most stations. Don't see us QQing and running to high or low sec.
Fleet Warpsujarento
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-03-24 01:50:13 UTC
Magnus Orin wrote:
Standings prevent us Nullsec players from docking in most stations. Don't see us QQing and running to high or low sec.


But in nullsec you can't just leave your alliance and instantly gain access to enemy stations. The problem is that it creates an incentive to leave militias.
Simca Develon
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-03-24 02:08:03 UTC
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
Magnus Orin wrote:
Standings prevent us Nullsec players from docking in most stations. Don't see us QQing and running to high or low sec.


But in nullsec you can't just leave your alliance and instantly gain access to enemy stations. The problem is that it creates an incentive to leave militias.


That will happen I'm sure. It's point is to make you actually work to take/retake systems. It gives you a reason to do so. Imagine if you did take the system and suddenly they can't dock up. That's what you should be worried about doing not whining because you can't dock in an enemy station. Pirates will be able to dock, but I don't think that gives them any real advantage.

Je suis le commencement de votre fin.

Le diable prend soin de son proper.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#10 - 2012-03-24 02:12:12 UTC
Being able to dock in stations belonging to a Faction that really hate you is also stupid. The way stations are totally randomly distributed over all Factions is also stupid.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Fleet Warpsujarento
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-03-24 02:19:32 UTC
Simca Develon wrote:
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
Magnus Orin wrote:
Standings prevent us Nullsec players from docking in most stations. Don't see us QQing and running to high or low sec.


But in nullsec you can't just leave your alliance and instantly gain access to enemy stations. The problem is that it creates an incentive to leave militias.


That will happen I'm sure. It's point is to make you actually work to take/retake systems. It gives you a reason to do so. Imagine if you did take the system and suddenly they can't dock up. That's what you should be worried about doing not whining because you can't dock in an enemy station. Pirates will be able to dock, but I don't think that gives them any real advantage.


You might work hard to get the systems back. Or you might just quit militia. Or not joint it in the first place.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#12 - 2012-03-24 02:30:41 UTC
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
Simca Develon wrote:
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
Magnus Orin wrote:
Standings prevent us Nullsec players from docking in most stations. Don't see us QQing and running to high or low sec.


But in nullsec you can't just leave your alliance and instantly gain access to enemy stations. The problem is that it creates an incentive to leave militias.


That will happen I'm sure. It's point is to make you actually work to take/retake systems. It gives you a reason to do so. Imagine if you did take the system and suddenly they can't dock up. That's what you should be worried about doing not whining because you can't dock in an enemy station. Pirates will be able to dock, but I don't think that gives them any real advantage.


You might work hard to get the systems back. Or you might just quit militia. Or not joint it in the first place.


Like I said, if you're not willing to fight for systems, just become the pirate/white-knight. You could also try flying in places where you already own the station.

Katrina Oniseki
Magnus Orin
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-03-24 02:32:34 UTC
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
Simca Develon wrote:
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
Magnus Orin wrote:
Standings prevent us Nullsec players from docking in most stations. Don't see us QQing and running to high or low sec.


But in nullsec you can't just leave your alliance and instantly gain access to enemy stations. The problem is that it creates an incentive to leave militias.


That will happen I'm sure. It's point is to make you actually work to take/retake systems. It gives you a reason to do so. Imagine if you did take the system and suddenly they can't dock up. That's what you should be worried about doing not whining because you can't dock in an enemy station. Pirates will be able to dock, but I don't think that gives them any real advantage.


You might work hard to get the systems back. Or you might just quit militia. Or not joint it in the first place.


No, that's absolutely ridiculous.

That's like saying I'm gonna leave WI. because I cannot dock in Raiden.'s or IRC's stations, or that I would choose not to move to 0.0 in the first place because of that 'limitation'.

MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-03-24 02:37:17 UTC  |  Edited by: MotherMoon
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
-Faction Warfare is in lowsec.
-Piracy is in lowsec.
-Faction Warfare players fight pirates. (Often more than they fight

Therefore, not being able to dock puts FW players at a disadvantage against pirates.
Therefore, there is a new incentive to leave faction warfare to be better at PvP.



so have the faction police, who CAN be defeated, spawn if prates attack you.

If i attack a pirate, and then he attacks back we have a fight.

If he attacks me 1st, 5 battleships spawn for me and help me fight. A large blob will easily defeat the NPCs, but the FW police would kill solo piracy in FW space. And to me, that would be a GOOD THING. FW should NOT be like 0.0 space, that's what 0.0 space is for. We need to increase the stuff you can do in the sandbox, not decrease it.

"
Quote:
But in nullsec you can't just leave your alliance and instantly gain access to enemy stations. The problem is that it creates an incentive to leave militias.

"

What? you aren't thinking this through. If you quit militias, why would the ammar suddenly increase your standings towards them? Even if you leave the factional war, you still would have standings far to low to dock in ammar FW systems. That's the current system in 0.0 space. It works just fine.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#15 - 2012-03-24 02:38:55 UTC
OP is kinda right in a way.

If you want to incentivize something, the carrot works better than the stick.

i.e. the rewards for taking a system should be the motivator, not the penalties for not.

I have no doubt you will see people dropping corp to do this and working around the mechanics endlessly, I honestly see it.

It's no different than all the people dropping corps to evade wardecs, etc.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Fleet Warpsujarento
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-03-24 02:39:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Fleet Warpsujarento
Magnus Orin wrote:
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
Simca Develon wrote:
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
Magnus Orin wrote:
Standings prevent us Nullsec players from docking in most stations. Don't see us QQing and running to high or low sec.


But in nullsec you can't just leave your alliance and instantly gain access to enemy stations. The problem is that it creates an incentive to leave militias.


That will happen I'm sure. It's point is to make you actually work to take/retake systems. It gives you a reason to do so. Imagine if you did take the system and suddenly they can't dock up. That's what you should be worried about doing not whining because you can't dock in an enemy station. Pirates will be able to dock, but I don't think that gives them any real advantage.


You might work hard to get the systems back. Or you might just quit militia. Or not joint it in the first place.


No, that's absolutely ridiculous.

That's like saying I'm gonna leave WI. because I cannot dock in Raiden.'s or IRC's stations, or that I would choose not to move to 0.0 in the first place because of that 'limitation'.






It's not the same, because leaving WI wouldn't let you dock in Raiden's stations, so that incentive isn't actually there.

The real problem is that CCP are trying to increase the number of people who join FW, but implementing mechanics like this does provide an incentive to leave it.
Fleet Warpsujarento
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-03-24 02:40:19 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
Fleet Warpsujarento wrote:
-Faction Warfare is in lowsec.
-Piracy is in lowsec.
-Faction Warfare players fight pirates. (Often more than they fight

Therefore, not being able to dock puts FW players at a disadvantage against pirates.
Therefore, there is a new incentive to leave faction warfare to be better at PvP.



so have the faction police, who CAN be defeated, spawn if prates attack you.



I'm gonna stop quoting here because you just broke lowsec.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-03-24 02:42:30 UTC
Quote:
It's not the same, because leaving WI wouldn't let you dock in Raiden's stations, so that incentive isn't actually there.

The real problem is that CCP are trying to increase the number of people who join FW, but implementing mechanics like this does provide an incentive to leave it.

So quitg FW suddenly increases your standings to the point you can dock with thier stations?

you would have t grind like NUTS to get into the ammar FW systems even when your NOT IN FW, becuase while in FW, your standings with ammar tanked.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
Fleet Warpsujarento
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-03-24 02:45:51 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:
Quote:
It's not the same, because leaving WI wouldn't let you dock in Raiden's stations, so that incentive isn't actually there.

The real problem is that CCP are trying to increase the number of people who join FW, but implementing mechanics like this does provide an incentive to leave it.

So quitg FW suddenly increases your standings to the point you can dock with thier stations?

you would have t grind like NUTS to get into the ammar FW systems even when your NOT IN FW, becuase while in FW, your standings with ammar tanked.


As I understood the Fanfest presentation, as long as you aren't an active member of the enemy militia, you would be able to dock regardless of standings. If this is not the case then the idea is even more broken than I thought.
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-03-24 02:49:01 UTC
MotherMoon wrote:

... but the FW police would kill solo piracy in FW space. And to me, that would be a GOOD THING.
....
MotherMoon wrote:
We need to increase the stuff you can do in the sandbox, not decrease it.
.


... What?

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