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CCP, CSM, CCL and insider info (New bomb, repost from kugu)

Author
Asiyeonekana Roho
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-03-23 14:11:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Asiyeonekana Roho
http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?13156-CCP-CSM-CCL-and-insider-info

CCP, CSM, CCL and insider info



Disclaimer.

I decided to write this article after I stumbled upon a topic on http://forum.eve-ru.com which was made to discuss whether community need CSM or not. Very briefly the topic was derailed to discussion of CSM members’ personalities, their access to special information, private contacts with CCP employees and using all this for their personal concerns . Inbefore starting the post I want to apologize that all examples and information was taken from the life of ru-comminity. It happened only because I don’t have needed contacts anywhere else, but I think you’ve heard of the hero of this wall of text. Here is link for that topic, but it's in russian and moderated by topic starter.
http://forum.eve-ru.com/index.php?showtopic=88437&st=0

Part 1 – CSM, prelude. Reality and fiction.

When CSM was announced first time, Russian community paid little attention to it. Really, who can ever get interested in a volunteer’s opinion who is supposed to do something for the greater good, getting nothing in return. Almost nothing, because getting a couple of free trips to Iceland is crap, considering the short time you spend as CSM delegate and amount of efforts you do to join it.

Major figures of that time were busy with arranging the isk-flow to pay fee to their full-time FCs, propaganda managers, other random ppl you always need to maintain the life of a huge organization… and for some shadowy busyness. That’s because the first Russian delegate for CSM was Korvin. I’ve never known why he has applied. Maybe he is a fanatic idealist who dreamed of improving our game, or just lurking for some “inside” information, or maybe he just wanted that free trip (really don’t think so), but anyway, he was well known for his active participation in the life of our community.

And only when CSM 6 was announced, people with serious internet spaceship busyness understood the chances that CSM membership could give them. These things were really serious: access for special information, personal acquaintances with gamedevs from main Icelandic office… and opportunity to use these things for personal purposes, while also being able to push through ideas that could give advantage to their alliances. Shall I mention that https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/UAxDEATH was one of the CSM 6 delegates and https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/The%20Mittani, his IRL friend also was. Such a kind of New York Mafia, standing each other out. By the way, have you ever heard of Darius Johnson? He is also known to be a friend of this couple.
Asiyeonekana Roho
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-03-23 14:11:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Asiyeonekana Roho
Part 2 – Becoming a delegate? That’s why you want to.

After having a look on various things that are spread everywhere on random and official forums you can easily notice that insider info was a good part of the action. It was discussed in UaxDeath’s CSM election topic on eve-ru, which also became the final push for me to snoop around a bit and get all available info into one whole thing. One of the interesting moments that came out to light was our hero’s private correspondence, in which we can see cases of breaking nondisclosure agreement.

Quote:
I_gor (02 Jan 2012 – 18:58) wrote:
In his speech, UAxDeath told that CCP are going to make “destructible outposts idea” go live.


This were the words of random Red Overlord member, who listened stolen speech carefully and made some conclusions, that tell us about things that were going to be announced by CCP only in three weeks. The discussion that came after that post also uncovered the case when a botter in drone regions started accumulated alloys to sell them for real money when the mineral prices will “suddenly” go up seriously. Hey… but this talk took part three months ago… nothing about removing alloys was ever told that time…
After that goes a chatlog from the legion of xxdeathxx members, who had an opportunity to see all this crap with his own eyes.

Original

Quote:
(07:22:43 PM) DarkPhoenix: но в цсм он лишний, если ты не мембер
(07:23:04 PM) DarkPhoenix: я просто знаю как круто дич решает дела
(07:23:10 PM) DarkPhoenix: т.к. тс там слышал, и прочее
(07:23:19 PM) DarkPhoenix: но, видимо, он круто решает только свои дела
(07:23:30 PM) DarkPhoenix: и просто помня, как он там у себя
(07:23:33 PM) xxx: 100000%
(07:23:35 PM) DarkPhoenix: и как он в цсм
(07:23:41 PM) DarkPhoenix: это просто говно и ничто
(07:23:46 PM) DarkPhoenix: не нужно такого
(07:24:08 PM) xxx: угу
(07:24:21 PM) DarkPhoenix: если бы он направил свои силы на не подгребание под себя
(07:24:25 PM) DarkPhoenix: это было бы круто
(07:24:35 PM) DarkPhoenix: но сейчас я в это уже не верю
(07:24:36 PM) xxx: я и прошлый раз нза него не голосовал
(07:24:42 PM) DarkPhoenix: типа, он сам же надежду убил
(07:24:56 PM) xxx: я знал чего он хотел, вернее подозревал
(07:25:02 PM) DarkPhoenix: хехе
(07:25:04 PM) DarkPhoenix: инсайд?
(07:25:05 PM) xxx: там сям услышал
(07:25:08 PM) xxx: угу
(07:25:11 PM) xxx: инсайд
(07:25:17 PM) xxx: причем очень разный
(07:25:19 PM) DarkPhoenix: ясно
(07:25:24 PM) DarkPhoenix: потому и "бухать"
(07:25:31 PM) DarkPhoenix: спьяну можно много чего сболтнуть
(07:25:39 PM) xxx: просто у меня есть доступ занть про весь профит дича в исках)
(07:25:58 PM) xxx: мой знакомый написал ему нахяляву прогу учета аоенды
(07:26:07 PM) xxx: и вот какая фишка)
(07:26:19 PM) xxx: перед войной в казне не оказалось денег)))
(07:26:37 PM) DarkPhoenix: я на оффе прочитал его рекомендации от других людей, там реальных дел нету, зато есть "он клевый пацан и притащил виски"
(07:26:46 PM) DarkPhoenix: вывел чтоли?
(07:26:49 PM) DarkPhoenix: ну, зармтшил
(07:27:07 PM) xxx: за руку не схватил
(07:27:16 PM) xxx: но али сильнее не стал)


Translated

Quote:
(07:22:43 PM) DarkPhoenix: CSM don’t need him
(07:23:04 PM) DarkPhoenix: I know how he does things
(07:23:10 PM) DarkPhoenix: after listening to him in teamspeak and elsewhere
(07:23:19 PM) DarkPhoenix: but it’s only HIS problems he’s worried about
(07:23:30 PM) DarkPhoenix: after remembering how he works with his ally
(07:23:33 PM) xxx: 100000%
(07:23:35 PM) DarkPhoenix: and having him in CSM
(07:23:41 PM) DarkPhoenix: is just ****
(07:23:46 PM) DarkPhoenix: we don’t need it
(07:24:08 PM) xxx: ye
(07:24:21 PM) DarkPhoenix: if he’s ever spent any effort not for himself
(07:24:25 PM) DarkPhoenix: that would be cool
(07:24:35 PM) DarkPhoenix: but I don’t believe him anymore
(07:24:36 PM) xxx: I haven’t voted for him on previous election
(07:24:42 PM) DarkPhoenix: he destroyed hope himself
(07:24:56 PM) xxx: I always knew what he wanted, at least supposed it
(07:25:02 PM) DarkPhoenix: hehe
(07:25:04 PM) DarkPhoenix: insiders?
(07:25:05 PM) xxx: a whistle here a noise there
(07:25:08 PM) xxx: ye
(07:25:11 PM) xxx: insider info
(07:25:17 PM) xxx: very different info
(07:25:19 PM) DarkPhoenix: it’s clear
(07:25:24 PM) DarkPhoenix: that’s why he mentions drinking with employees
(07:25:31 PM) DarkPhoenix: drunk ppl can’t hold their tongues even if they want to
(07:25:39 PM) xxx: I’ve got access to alliance isk transactions
(07:25:58 PM) xxx: a friend of mine wrote a program counting rent from shadow
(07:26:07 PM) xxx: and you know…
(07:26:19 PM) xxx: there was no money on alliance valet when the assault on us was launched
(07:26:37 PM) DarkPhoenix: I read his election topic on eve-o, absolutely no serious info, just random stuff from random renters that tell that he’s cool and he’s bought them whiskey
(07:26:46 PM) DarkPhoenix: where’s all that isk gone?
(07:26:49 PM) DarkPhoenix: for RMT?
(07:27:07 PM) xxx: unfortunately I haven’t caught his hand on it
(07:27:16 PM) xxx: but my alliance made one more step to It’s death.
Asiyeonekana Roho
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-03-23 14:11:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Asiyeonekana Roho
But the most indicative was the 1000 and 1 drake incident, as I call it.
Here’s this story.
“Agent Grom” who turned out to be a man known as Gravyz, has stolen from UAxDeath 1000 drakes (there were less of them actually, but there was lots of other random stuff and “The 1000 drakes incident” sounds cool) using shared director’s account. Some proofs.

http://imglink.ru/pictures/10-11-11/62968dc00c1da5e1a3853df4338005c5.jpg
http://imglink.ru/pictures/10-11-11/1a0c70253bab7aa0515a594fc54a0350.jpg
http://imglink.ru/pictures/10-11-11/403d1a74f8bff93070d1260b0c4f59fe.jpg
http://imglink.ru/pictures/10-11-11/05d7439f06e690d85ec30eafacb511ee.jpg

You can say: LOL he robbed him and what? But the most interesting part came after. CCP returned stolen assets to their owner… Just think about it… CCP SHOULDN’T return rightfully stolen assets and MUST ban accounts proved for being shared… What can we call a proof on acc-sharing after this?
Friends of UAxDEATH have even started a topic about it on eve-ru, calling it “punishment”

Here is a story from that unlucky robber
Quote:
Mr Gravyz (23 march 2012 - 11:17) wrote:

So let’s start
At first a little opening word: ppl in eve know me as Gravyz. Some of them hate me, some became my friends and are helping me now. In the end of july I’ve started new corp – JE. Our first alliance was the Legion of xXDEATHXx. We started to take first positions on the CTA membercount and killboard activity.

But soon our paths diverged. The reason was a serious talk with legion’s officer Maugly about the RA.

Following the UAxDeath’s order, he wanted to destroy triple A while flying in RA fleets. His idea sounded like: we must take all their space before some patch goes live, after it –a- was going to die and drone regions would be safe…. I didn’t like that idea. I wanted to make our alliance grow both with quality and numbers, wanted to roam around, kill stuff, lead alliance CTA doing things like that and bringing ppl fun. That’s where the conflict started. After all Maugly told that he wanted to lure some RA corporations into legion, he thought that their leadership was ****, and RA was going to die after that.. that we just needed to push them up a little closer to the edge…
I’ve brought that information to Silent Dodger, which immediately caused epic emorage from legion’s leadership and denial of compensation for my corp. When Dodger asked for explanations, they told him that all that was MY and only my idea. Soon after that we left the legion.

About acc sharing in the legion:
As it always happens with account sharing, everyone know about it, no one hides it and no one have any proofs. Time to change it, cause I’ve got some.
During one operation in LXQ, some chars were shared for me:

STYPY RUS's leviathan:
Форелька (15:58:27 19/09/2011)
stypy-caldar *** Zagushka (edit: I’ve deleted the password)


proof: http://s003.radikal.ru/i202/1203/e4/a2302ac9cfdc.png
I’ll bring a better screenshot next time, this one looks like ****


Forelka's mothership:
ivanpetrov *** vince locke (edit: I’ve deleted the password)


Proof: http://s57.radikal.ru/i157/1203/e2/c322fbd10276.png
Same with this, wait a bit.

I can say with full confidence that half of xix supers is shared among xix directors.
If CCP likes to ban for account sharing, they’ve got work to do, since they can check that easily.

You can’t see the correspondence on these screenshot cause their quality sucks, but you can see that I was given account data for some accounts. There was also an account with ragna, but it wasn’t used in LXQ that time.

1000 drakes and hacking bans:

After leaving XIX I’ve decided to help my xix friends to drop the burden of some assets in their homeworld. I’ve chosen Forelka’s mothership, that as I’ve mentioned before was shared for me. Cheked roles on him and assets in 1а8. After makin sure that assets are located in 1а8 and there are no directors online, I assaulted the corphangar in 1a8, using the shared character. All assets were passed to my original character.
That’s what was called the 1000 drakes incident.

But in 2-3 weeks after this incident, half of my accounts get banned for hacking.
being honest… very interesting accounts:

1 mothership account with my main Gravyz
And some account that were frozen with no characters for some time.

The game master who banned my account had a talk with me, I gave him screenshots and some other proofs and the answer was: sharing is prohibited, you get permo-ban, your petition is closed.
I’m still talking to game masters about it, but with no result. After publishing it, UAxDEATH will do everything to make my characters kicked from goonswarm, and even more bans are possible after that.
We’ll see.



Let me remind you that Gravyz took part in an operation in LXQ on the shared mothership. In this one http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=10669596 The top damage one. From his IP. It could be a 100% proof that the was no hacking since who will ever hack an account to go to CTA on it, lol. It could be, but it wasn’t somewhy. Game master surely checked the IP addresses, since another account, that didn’t belong to Gravyz and also acted from that IP was banned too. But what about that aeon, vince locke? It’s still not banned. How has it happened? Miracle… or not? You know after that dirty story with Band of Brothers there was no way that could have happened, really? /Sarcasm off.
Asiyeonekana Roho
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-03-23 14:13:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Asiyeonekana Roho
Part 3 – CSM of CCL?

Let’s return to the topic that made me write this. The topic starter there https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/Astarta%20Atrax tells about the idea of destroying the institute of CSM (after being told and accepting things that were told about UAxDeath in that topic she stated that she voted for UAxDEATH with 7 accounts, while telling that there is no need in CSM, lol women logic). But what hides under this slogan “Let’s pass all the authority that CSM has to CCL” ?
After this 1000 drakes incident it’s completely clear that the owner of these magic drakes will become CCL in no time with help of their magic. It’s very useful to be anonymous and possess the same abilities than before. No angry ppl on forums, no elections, no answers to community… What else can this good man want for his personal favor?

Epilog - All the things around.

No need to think that I started all this mess because of my personal hatred to UAxDeath. Cause it is not truth. I don’t want anyone to have such an ability to cheat in the game I play.

But anyway, I understand that CSM is needed for only two entities:
1. CCP. As a puppet voice of people under their dictation. (No offence, they are businessmen afterall).
2. The CSM themselves. To access insider information for their personal needs.

I totally accept that CCP will not remove CSM, that is actually used as a fig-leaf covering a huge **** that they put on their players, to give it a smell of democracy.

Why does UAxDEATH is only one mentioned in this article? Because during his time in CSM, he is a perfect example of using the positive sides of being a delegate for his personal needs. Money does not smell.
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2012-03-23 14:21:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Terminal Insanity
CCP doesnt seem to ban shared accounts unless they really cause a problem. Its one of those times where they will enforce the ban depending on the situation.

Cant understand some of that article, bad translations etc... but just goes to show, you shouldn't use shared accounts. ever. for any reason. What did you expect when you started breaking rules?

Even if someone tells you to use his account... just dont. Your account will become associated with theirs and if they cheat/RMT/whatever, you might get fingered as well.

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP

JeanMichel Bizarre
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-03-23 14:23:16 UTC
What is this I don't even

Dangerzone

Zowie Powers
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-03-23 14:29:47 UTC
This is just crazy talk.

CCP implemented Internal Affairs to make sure CCP could never again show favouritism or cheat at their own game.

Oh wait.... lolinternalaffairslol


ATX: The best of the rest.

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#8 - 2012-03-23 14:32:25 UTC
Ed: lolwut

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Aiden Andraste
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-03-23 14:35:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Aiden Andraste
EDIT: after wading through that a second time, i'm not really sure what's going on here. Halp I need an (Russian?) adult.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-03-23 14:37:00 UTC
i hear that spaceships are serious busniess

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.

Skex Relbore
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-03-23 14:45:28 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
CCP doesnt seem to ban shared accounts unless they really cause a problem. Its one of those times where they will enforce the ban depending on the situation.

Cant understand some of that article, bad translations etc... but just goes to show, you shouldn't use shared accounts. ever. for any reason. What did you expect when you started breaking rules?

Even if someone tells you to use his account... just dont. Your account will become associated with theirs and if they cheat/RMT/whatever, you might get fingered as well.


Rules against account sharing in MMOs are mostly a customer service out. CCP and other MMO companies don't care if you log your buddies account in. What they care about is when you rob your "buddies" account and your "buddy" sends in a petition that they have to look at.

At which point they point to the EULA and tell your "buddy" that he's SOL.

They aren't going to expend resources looking for something that literally no one cares about, that would be counter to the whole point of the rule in the first place which is to reduce customer service overhead.
Terminal Insanity
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2012-03-23 14:49:56 UTC
Skex Relbore wrote:

Rules against account sharing in MMOs are mostly a customer service out. CCP and other MMO companies don't care if you log your buddies account in. What they care about is when you rob your "buddies" account and your "buddy" sends in a petition that they have to look at.

At which point they point to the EULA and tell your "buddy" that he's SOL.

They aren't going to expend resources looking for something that literally no one cares about, that would be counter to the whole point of the rule in the first place which is to reduce customer service overhead.

Thats basically what i said. They do 'look the other way' in most cases. Until the accounts in question become a real problem, in which case they go ahead and enforce the rule and clean up the mess. This is why i said, you simply shouldn't share accounts. It IS against the rules, and when **** hits the fan, you risk a ban for it or for your account's association with 'bad' accounts.

Do it at your own risk, but realize that it IS a risk. and it IS a stated rule

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP

Kai Tel
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-03-23 14:56:42 UTC
Contrary to the reported text, I couldn't make fun of the Russian alliances’ female player base for being illogical. I saw the beauty pageant pictures and they actually have some real babes playing. lol That guy can't even dream now.
Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#14 - 2012-03-23 14:57:35 UTC
Too long, what's the skinny?
Xython
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-03-23 15:00:04 UTC
Wow, Kugu's wordfiltered? Why?
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#16 - 2012-03-23 15:27:46 UTC
Hardly a bombshell. I think the average Eve player already knew this kind of stuff happens.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#17 - 2012-03-23 15:50:14 UTC
We all know that when CCP said they'd give "players transparency" after the T20-incident, they clearly meant "we'll give CSM transparency", not ALL players. P

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.

Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-03-23 16:13:35 UTC
Misanth wrote:
We all know that when CCP said they'd give "players transparency" after the T20-incident, they clearly meant "we'll give CSM transparency", not ALL players. P


As long as the right kind of people are on the CSM then that's ok.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
#19 - 2012-03-23 16:42:21 UTC
CSM using privileged information to further their own goals?!?!?!!!?!?
Them making friends within CCP?!?!!!?
CCP has no idea how the game works, but blindly takes advice from the CSM that furthers their own agendas?!?!?!
*cough* Titan nerf *cough*

This isn't new, everyone knows this, deal with it and move on...
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-03-23 16:47:54 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Misanth wrote:
We all know that when CCP said they'd give "players transparency" after the T20-incident, they clearly meant "we'll give CSM transparency", not ALL players. P


As long as the right kind of people are on the CSM then that's ok.



Even the perfectly right people for the CSM jobs once they become a real CSM - suddenly and instantly suck and steal and lie cheat and anally abuse our game.

"That eve life, thats what all the players say...."

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.

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