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looking for a high dps pve ship
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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-03-23 07:06:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
I'm finally getting my SP up into the realm of tech 2 ships, and also getting enough income for once to buy them. So can anyone advise me on a ship to try out?

I'm in a wormhole ops corp, running class 1 and 2 sites currently, will be moving to class 4 soon. Ideally I want something capable of tanking level 4s, but we'll probably have logistics support. The most important thing I want is high damage. I'm not picky about range or tracking, I'm pretty good at hitting unintelligent NPC targets. And finally, I'm looking for something within 200 mil, and from any of these categories:
  • battlecruisers
  • faction cruisers
  • tech 2 cruisers
    • or similar in skill requirements. I won't be able to fly a command ship for a long time and I won't be able to afford a strategic cruiser for a long time so those are out of the question, as are battleships because they are too big for many of the class 1 wormholes.

    Any input is much appreciated!

    -edit-
    New input/questions added on post #7.

    FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

    Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
    Substantia Nigra
    Polaris Rising
    Goonswarm Federation
    #2 - 2012-03-23 07:23:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Substantia Nigra
    Whatever you already have under your belt.

    Plain ol' reliable drake for now ... great cheap w-space workhorse for low-end holes.

    While your drake is earning you C1/2 isk direct your training towards tengu, tech 2 heavy missiles, and good support skills for active shield-tanking ship. That tengu will soon be able to solo C3 and C4 sites and will be a great addition to whatever gang you end up with in the C4.

    If you're C4 gang also plays pvp then you might also look at some specialty support skill ... such as HICtors, EW and recons (your caldari cruiser V especially useful here).

    Squillions of other options and prolly tens-of-squillions of opinions ... but there are no two ships better suited for beginner and intermediate w-space utility PvE work. There are many higher-DPS ships, but none are better w-space tools.

    I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
    Svodola Darkfury
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #3 - 2012-03-23 07:56:11 UTC
    Drake and tengu are excellent choices for caldari pilots. Drake can roll 500 dps with 500 omni tank in a cheap t2 fit while your tengu can work c1-c5 solo or fleet in the later wormholes. When i was living in a c4 we used basis and ravens for anoms which is another great cheap workhorse route.

    Drake is the best cheap solo wormhole ship. Its performance to isk ratio is probably the best in EVE. From there earn cash for a raven or a tengu and you can use that in c4s with logi support.

    Director of Frozen Corpse Industries.
    Reaver Glitterstim
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #4 - 2012-03-23 09:07:06 UTC
    I didn't ask what's good for soloing, I asked out of the ships that can do wormhole ops, which one has the best dps? That's all I'm interested in. For instance, I wouldn't want to bring a tier-3 battlecruiser because while it has fantastic dps, it can't take the heat well enough to be safe.

    FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

    Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
    Outlawd
    Asset Seizure and Reclaimation
    #5 - 2012-03-23 10:37:14 UTC
    Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
    I didn't ask what's good for soloing, I asked out of the ships that can do wormhole ops, which one has the best dps? That's all I'm interested in. For instance, I wouldn't want to bring a tier-3 battlecruiser because while it has fantastic dps, it can't take the heat well enough to be safe.


    Both previous posts gave you enough information for you to be able to make an informed decision.

    In fact, if you read Subs' post properly, it states exactly what you wanted to know;

    Substantia Nigra wrote:
    Squillions of other options and prolly tens-of-squillions of opinions ... but there are no two ships better suited for beginner and intermediate w-space utility PvE work. There are many higher-DPS ships, but none are better w-space tools.
    OfBalance
    Caldari State
    #6 - 2012-03-23 17:21:16 UTC
    Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
    I didn't ask what's good for soloing, I asked out of the ships that can do wormhole ops, which one has the best dps? That's all I'm interested in. For instance, I wouldn't want to bring a tier-3 battlecruiser because while it has fantastic dps, it can't take the heat well enough to be safe.


    Aspie is mad.
    Reaver Glitterstim
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #7 - 2012-03-23 18:34:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
    Outlawd wrote:
    In fact, if you read Subs' post properly, it states exactly what you wanted to know;

    No, it doesn't. You all are assuming from my post that I'm a beginner to wormhole ops and that I want to know what works best in general. But in fact I'm fairly experienced both with low-end wormhole ops and in fitting my own ship. What I lack experience with is the flying of the ships I mentioned. And furthermore, I do know that a drake does NOT offer the best DPS I can get.

    I want to know which ship, with the right fit, kills sleepers the fastest in general, with safety being put at a minimum. Consider I have near-perfect SP in tanking across the board and have plenty experience fitting ships for a rock-solid defense, but I just re-mapped to a perception/willpower build and am finally training my gunnery skills. For a long time I've been struggling with terrible dps, and I'm eager to break out of that.

    You know what, why don't I ask it like this...
  • Is a brutix/myrmidon/vigilant the best DPS I can get within my price/skill range?
  • Will a vigilant get significantly more DPS than a brutix due to being able to fit more damage upgrades or something, or does it not work like that?
  • Is the extra dps on a myrmidon worth the extra drone reliance and reduced mobility? (I'll be using tech 1 drones either way, to save money on drone losses)
  • Is there a way to mitigate drone losses so that I can use tech 2 drones without losing money on their account?
  • is it possible to fit a tier 3 battlecruiser to do well in class 1 or 2 wormhole ops without logistics support? If you know from experience, please tell which one--no fits needed but they are appreciated.
  • Anyone with experience know how often a dominix is likely to make it into a class 1 wormhole system? Is there any variance in wormhole mass at all, from one to the next?

    • And finally, could anyone tell me where the legion stands on straight dps out of the strategic cruisers? I already can fly a legion, I just can't afford one. Will the legion suit my tastes for demolishment (I'm coining this word!) or should I consider training for a different one eventually? Again, consider only the DPS it'll get in a sleeper-running setup, not it's overall sleeper-running utility. If a particular T3 with higher DPS requires more tank modules in class 4 which lowers its DPS, then that's something to consider. But if it's just more tricky to use, or there are a greater prevalence of situations in which it's not a good hull for the job, then I don't need your solutions because I'm good at working on the fly. Besides, I like to keep things interesting. In fact I might avoid a Tengu because it seems like a boring ship.

    Hope that clears up what I'm asking for. Again, any input is appreciated, even if it's slightly off-topic! I just want some answers to my main questions, too!

    FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

    Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
    Fango Mango
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #8 - 2012-03-23 18:58:29 UTC
    Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
    Outlawd wrote:
    In fact, if you read Subs' post properly, it states exactly what you wanted to know;

    No, it doesn't. You all are assuming from my post that I'm a beginner to wormhole ops and that I want to know what works best in general. But in fact I'm fairly experienced both with low-end wormhole ops and in fitting my own ship. What I lack experience with is the flying of the ships I mentioned. And furthermore, I do know that a drake does NOT offer the best DPS I can get.

    I want to know which ship, with the right fit, kills sleepers the fastest in general, with safety being put at a minimum. Consider I have near-perfect SP in tanking across the board and have plenty experience fitting ships for a rock-solid defense, but I just re-mapped to a perception/willpower build and am finally training my gunnery skills. For a long time I've been struggling with terrible dps, and I'm eager to break out of that.

    You know what, why don't I ask it like this...
  • Is a brutix/myrmidon/vigilant the best DPS I can get within my price/skill range?
  • Will a vigilant get significantly more DPS than a brutix due to being able to fit more damage upgrades or something, or does it not work like that?
  • Is the extra dps on a myrmidon worth the extra drone reliance and reduced mobility? (I'll be using tech 1 drones either way, to save money on drone losses)
  • Is there a way to mitigate drone losses so that I can use tech 2 drones without losing money on their account?
  • is it possible to fit a tier 3 battlecruiser to do well in class 1 or 2 wormhole ops without logistics support? If you know from experience, please tell which one--no fits needed but they are appreciated.
  • Anyone with experience know how often a dominix is likely to make it into a class 1 wormhole system? Is there any variance in wormhole mass at all, from one to the next?

    • And finally, could anyone tell me where the legion stands on straight dps out of the strategic cruisers? I already can fly a legion, I just can't afford one. Will the legion suit my tastes for demolishment (I'm coining this word!) or should I consider training for a different one eventually? Again, consider only the DPS it'll get in a sleeper-running setup, not it's overall sleeper-running utility. If a particular T3 with higher DPS requires more tank modules in class 4 which lowers its DPS, then that's something to consider. But if it's just more tricky to use, or there are a greater prevalence of situations in which it's not a good hull for the job, then I don't need your solutions because I'm good at working on the fly. Besides, I like to keep things interesting. In fact I might avoid a Tengu because it seems like a boring ship.

    Hope that clears up what I'm asking for. Again, any input is appreciated, even if it's slightly off-topic! I just want some answers to my main questions, too!


    Well If all you care about is DPS, then you have to go blaster.

    If you want to fly cheap and have logistics support, go battlecruiser.

    That leaves you with two options
    Brutix and Talos

    I suppose a deimos is also an option, but you can't shield tank it and it does the same damage as a brutix (but is a bit tougher and faster)

    The Brutix will put out 800+ dps (without drones) and the Talos will put out 1300+ dps without drones.
    Hitting sleepers will be very tough for the Talos so I suggest going Brutix.


    [Brutix, Blaster fit]

    Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
    Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
    Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
    Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
    Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
    Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M
    Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Void M

    Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
    Large Shield Extender II
    Invulnerability Field II
    Invulnerability Field II

    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
    Damage Control II

    Medium Ancillary Current Router I
    Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
    Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


    Hammerhead II x5


    You can swap the Shield extender for a web to help with smaller targets if you want and your logistics is on top of their game



    -FM
    FloppieTheBanjoClown
    Arcana Imperii Ltd.
    #9 - 2012-03-23 18:59:18 UTC
    There's more to killing sleepers quickly than just DPS. I have ship builds that do 2,000+ DPS and can tank the damage output of a C5. The problem is that their blasters have such a short range and poor tracking that I'd never actually hit anything.

    THAT is why the Drake and Tengu are the workhorses of w-space. They don't care about range. Sleeper frigates can't get under their guns. They don't have to chase the cruisers and battleships that want to orbit at 40 km. They get quite a bit of their speed from the fact that they can mostly fight from one position and clear the field.

    Tier 3 BCs are glass cannons. I wouldn't recommend attempting sleeper sites in them. They're not built for that and I certainly wouldn't try to shoe-horn them into the role. Tier 2s do a great job as low-level wormhole ships.

    Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
    Wingmate
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #10 - 2012-03-23 19:32:13 UTC
    i'd love to see a 2k dps ship. biggest i ever saw was a vindi with 1750dps using heavy t3 blasters and t2 dps ammo.

    you want to know what kills sleepers fastest? a tengu with dual webs, an ab, and heavy assaults. catch them, web them, they're done. and you can hero-tank the crap out of it. want a cheaper ship to fly in these things, with crazy tank and decent dps? a well-skilled drake can fit two damage mods and keep kicking at lower-level sites. range doesn't matter, huge shields mean they just don't care about incoming damage, and if you have a bomber with a salvager on it, you're set for the scooping. nothing else really comes close, honestly. as long as you tank the drake correctly (huge signal radius means that missiles deal much more damage than guns, so watch your resists for the em/therm that those missiles deal), you're golden.

    brutix is way more dps than a myrm, but myrm gives you the flexibility of light drones (and their excellent speed and tracking). a dual-repper myrm is more than enough to tank most C1 sites, and likely is fine in C2s as well with decent skills, and you can fit salvagers and tractors and a cloak on the highs instead of guns for less dps but more solo-ability. brutix does a ton more dps, and if you have logi support, is a much better choice, all things considered. it can't tank all c2 sites solo, however.

    beyond that, just raging at people because they didn't answer a question you didn't ask isn't really going to get you anything.

    i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433
    FloppieTheBanjoClown
    Arcana Imperii Ltd.
    #11 - 2012-03-23 19:47:26 UTC
    Wingmate wrote:
    i'd love to see a 2k dps ship. biggest i ever saw was a vindi with 1750dps using heavy t3 blasters and t2 dps ammo.


    T3 fleet booster not included. They're ostensibly solo ships, but require off-grid fleet boosts to get the 2k DPS and crazy tanks. In w-space, your booster can sit inside the POS shield all day.

    Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
    Reaver Glitterstim
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #12 - 2012-03-24 21:37:37 UTC
    Thanks for the input guys. I guess there's really no significantly better dps than a plain ol' brutix. If it's not enough for me, it just means I need to improve my gunnery and/or drone skills.

    FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

    Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
    Slippery Surgeon
    Republic University
    Minmatar Republic
    #13 - 2012-03-27 21:56:41 UTC
    Hello,

    I will share this link with you.
    It is an easy way to view many ships that are fit for incursions - so most of them going for high DPS.

    Hope this helps.
    http://incursions.nexsoft.de/?mode=dps
    drdxie
    #14 - 2012-03-27 23:32:02 UTC
    Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
    Thanks for the input guys. I guess there's really no significantly better dps than a plain ol' brutix. If it's not enough for me, it just means I need to improve my gunnery and/or drone skills.


    Normally I don't give people crap for posting silly questions of the forums, we all started somewhere... BUT...
    I don't get you at all reaver, you say "will be moving to class 4 soon" you ask for advice from experienced people.. you choose not to even listen to their reasoning... anyway, i would love to see some videos of your brutix in a C4, even with logistics.. your super DPS is never going to get applied, so as far as applied DPS, the drake will out dps you. Perhaps you should google a bit and see what you can expect in the C4... you will be webbed, you will be neuted and BS and cruiser rats will orbit you out of your range... but you're the expert.. post the video

    Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277
    Reaver Glitterstim
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #15 - 2012-03-27 23:37:08 UTC
    drdxie wrote:
    [quote=Reaver Glitterstim]anyway, i would love to see some videos of your brutix in a C4, even with logistics..
    I didn't say I was going to use a brutix in class 4, and I'm tired of people like you refusing to read my posts and then insisting that I'm wrong. Don't you have anything better to do?

    FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

    Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
    Bernie Nator
    Seal Club Six
    Plug N Play
    #16 - 2012-03-27 23:42:53 UTC
    Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
    drdxie wrote:
    [quote=Reaver Glitterstim]anyway, i would love to see some videos of your brutix in a C4, even with logistics..
    I didn't say I was going to use a brutix in class 4, and I'm tired of people like you refusing to read my posts and then insisting that I'm wrong. Don't you have anything better to do?


    Can I ask what your plan for doing WH sites is? Just wondering.
    Reaver Glitterstim
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #17 - 2012-03-27 23:52:46 UTC
    Bernie Nator wrote:
    Can I ask what your plan for doing WH sites is? Just wondering.

    Partly making money, partly just experiencing a new side of EVE, and partly because I found a great corp, and so I'm following them.
    I'm sort of a casual/hardcore hybrid gamer, if that makes any sense. There are things I just don't take seriously, and there are things I take very seriously. One thing I take seriously is ship fittings. I like recommendations, but I always make the final choice on my fit, and I almost always disagree with other people's advice on the matter.

    You should see my dual-boxing cyclones, I've never seen anyone else do anything like it. I've got a large cap transfer on both, and two emmission rigs. It's great for sleepers because they can run the large shield booster indefinitely without running out of power, since they won't both be running it at the same time anyway. Could probably tank a class 3 with those, but with a lot more dps than a couple of drakes, especially considering they each have a tractor beam and salvager as well.

    FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

    Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
    drdxie
    #18 - 2012-03-27 23:53:49 UTC
    Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
    drdxie wrote:
    [quote=Reaver Glitterstim]anyway, i would love to see some videos of your brutix in a C4, even with logistics..
    I didn't say I was going to use a brutix in class 4, and I'm tired of people like you refusing to read my posts and then insisting that I'm wrong. Don't you have anything better to do?


    Nope I am at work so can't play eve.. so I resort to the next best thing.. trollingTwisted.. need to get my fix somehow...Blink
    BTW, never said you were wrong..

    Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277
    Reaver Glitterstim
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #19 - 2012-03-27 23:59:07 UTC
    drdxie wrote:
    BTW, never said you were wrong..
    You may not have used the word 'wrong', but you certainly insinuated that I was wrong.

    FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

    Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
    drdxie
    #20 - 2012-03-28 00:08:40 UTC
    Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
    drdxie wrote:
    BTW, never said you were wrong..
    You may not have used the word 'wrong', but you certainly insinuated that I was wrong.


    Nope..didn't even insinuate it... If I pick my nose with my thumb.. doesn't mean I am doing it wrong.. just means its not the most efficient way to do it...

    Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277
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