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self destruct changes?
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Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#101 - 2012-03-23 20:49:58 UTC
Hainnz wrote:
Do away with kill mail. All of these problems solved.


No.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2012-03-23 20:58:50 UTC
How about selfdestructing generating a killmail for the ship without information about cargohold and fitting?
clamslayer
Doomheim
#103 - 2012-03-23 21:04:15 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
How about selfdestructing generating a killmail for the ship without information about cargohold and fitting?



that would be a better compromise.

but even then, i dont think you deserve a mail if you didnt bring enough dps to destroy a ship before the pilot self destructs. perhaps making the timer longer or shorter based on the size of the ship. i would be happy with that.



the reality is the majority wants kill mails, so the majority will get kill mails.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#104 - 2012-03-23 21:15:41 UTC
clamslayer wrote:
Pheusia wrote:
clamslayer wrote:
wtf, why?

its already bad enough that everyone on grid gets the message that you started self destruct, now a killmail for a ship that you didnt kill wtf?

what is the point of self destructing your ship now?

i know, plenty of you chodes who never solo, will start flaming me about self destruct being lame, but how about bring more dps.

this is ******* bullshit




Do you routinely self-destruct rather than admit you lost a fight?



since when is self destructing a victory, or a means of not admitting you lost a ship? the ******* ship explodes



If someone is holding you or attacking you and you self-destruct it is a victory to them (lets face it you would have died anyway). There should be a kill-mail plus loot, as well as it being recorded somewhere incase of misusing the feature (exploit).
clamslayer
Doomheim
#105 - 2012-03-23 21:20:43 UTC  |  Edited by: clamslayer
Sasha Azala wrote:
clamslayer wrote:
Pheusia wrote:
clamslayer wrote:
wtf, why?

its already bad enough that everyone on grid gets the message that you started self destruct, now a killmail for a ship that you didnt kill wtf?

what is the point of self destructing your ship now?

i know, plenty of you chodes who never solo, will start flaming me about self destruct being lame, but how about bring more dps.

this is ******* bullshit




Do you routinely self-destruct rather than admit you lost a fight?



since when is self destructing a victory, or a means of not admitting you lost a ship? the ******* ship explodes



If someone is holding you or attacking you and you self-destruct it is a victory to them (lets face it you would have died anyway). There should be a kill-mail plus loot, as well as it being recorded somewhere incase of misusing the feature (exploit).



in warfare, combatants destroy their equipment specifically to deny it to the enemy. i dont understand why few grasp this simple real world concept "eve is real..pfft"

its a legit tactic.

i know everyone gets their panties in a wad when they get cockteased out of a killmail. get over it, or bring more dps to the table to deny your enemy any chance of destroying his equipment.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#106 - 2012-03-23 21:33:17 UTC
clamslayer wrote:
Sasha Azala wrote:
clamslayer wrote:
Pheusia wrote:
clamslayer wrote:
wtf, why?

its already bad enough that everyone on grid gets the message that you started self destruct, now a killmail for a ship that you didnt kill wtf?

what is the point of self destructing your ship now?

i know, plenty of you chodes who never solo, will start flaming me about self destruct being lame, but how about bring more dps.

this is ******* bullshit




Do you routinely self-destruct rather than admit you lost a fight?



since when is self destructing a victory, or a means of not admitting you lost a ship? the ******* ship explodes



If someone is holding you or attacking you and you self-destruct it is a victory to them (lets face it you would have died anyway). There should be a kill-mail plus loot, as well as it being recorded somewhere incase of misusing the feature (exploit).



in warfare, combatants destroy their equipment specifically to deny it to the enemy. i dont understand why few grasp this simple real world concept "eve is rell..pfft"

its a legit tactic



EVE is not RL, surprised how many don't seem to grasp that concept.

I doubt the self-destruct was meant as a way to keep destroying your ship just to deny another player loot or a kill-mail. And as far as I know CCP don't control KMs.
clamslayer
Doomheim
#107 - 2012-03-23 21:37:10 UTC  |  Edited by: clamslayer
no **** eve isnt real life, is that not obvious?

so you think the fact that loot doesnt drop is a mistake?

ccp doesnt control killmails?
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#108 - 2012-03-23 21:48:43 UTC
OP has a point tbfh, griefing is a major aspect of this game, and few things seems to **** people off more than depriving them off a killmail.

I have missed several super-km's as they selfdestructed, you won't see me whine about it. In fact, I lift my hat off to them succeeding in "damage control". They still lost their ship, but we did not get loot or a killmail, so he 'took something with him' when he fell.

Creating killmails for selfdestructed ships is just another way from CCP to cave in for populism.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
clamslayer
Doomheim
#109 - 2012-03-23 21:50:47 UTC
Misanth wrote:
OP has a point tbfh, griefing is a major aspect of this game, and few things seems to **** people off more than depriving them off a killmail.

I have missed several super-km's as they selfdestructed, you won't see me whine about it. In fact, I lift my hat off to them succeeding in "damage control". They still lost their ship, but we did not get loot or a killmail, so he 'took something with him' when he fell.

Creating killmails for selfdestructed ships is just another way from CCP to cave in for populism.


+1
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#110 - 2012-03-23 21:51:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Sasha Azala
clamslayer wrote:


so you think the fact that loot doesnt drop is a mistake?




I think loot does not drop simply because if it did people would abuse the self-destruct just like they used to with insurance payouts. But yeah, it's a dead ship so there should be wreakage.
clamslayer
Doomheim
#111 - 2012-03-23 21:58:10 UTC  |  Edited by: clamslayer
Sasha Azala wrote:
clamslayer wrote:


so you think the fact that loot doesnt drop is a mistake?




I think loot does not drop simply because if it did people would abuse the self-destruct just like they used to with insurance payouts. But yaeh, it's a dead ship so there should be wreakage.



instead of assuming it doesnt drop, why dont you conduct an experiment before talking about something you obviously know little about.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#112 - 2012-03-23 22:14:40 UTC
clamslayer wrote:
instead of assuming it doesnt drop, why dont you conduct an experiment before talking about something you obviously know little about.



clamslayer wrote:
if self destruct is strictly for preventing someone from holding you in position, then why doesn't loot drop?



clamslayer wrote:
unless there was a change in the last month, loot does not drop.



You've changed your tune.
clamslayer
Doomheim
#113 - 2012-03-23 22:19:05 UTC
typos my friend typos

i have always said that loot doesnt drop.

then someone claimed it did, my response was that if it did drop the change was recent.\

then i self destructed a half a dozen fitted ships with cargo

loot does not drop and never has
Alu Utukku
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#114 - 2012-03-24 00:39:40 UTC
Including self destructs to have a loss mail is a long needed change (as long as it does not go to the self destructor as a 'final blow' but to the last actual blow). +1

now to figure out a way to deal with self destructing sieged gear while in worm holes. perhaps by using the reinforcement timers to prevent such a thing from occurring inside the shield perimeter when reinforced.

looking forward to more details.
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#115 - 2012-03-24 00:51:32 UTC
Honestly, I feel as if self destructs are working as intended. I think if a fleet or person can't kill something before the self destruct, then they shouldn't get credit for it. I was on a Hyperion once being tackled. and his fleet was 10 jumps away. I wasn't going to hit the guy and my drone bay was empty. I knew his fleet was coming, but the frig was just scramming and webbing me. I self destructed. I died before the fleet got there. Should that one frig, who wasn't using any high slots, get a kill mail for just holding a Hyperion? I don't think so.
DelBoy Trades
Trotter Independent Traders.
Disaster Strikes
#116 - 2012-03-24 01:02:39 UTC
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
Honestly, I feel as if self destructs are working as intended. I think if a fleet or person can't kill something before the self destruct, then they shouldn't get credit for it. I was on a Hyperion once being tackled. and his fleet was 10 jumps away. I wasn't going to hit the guy and my drone bay was empty. I knew his fleet was coming, but the frig was just scramming and webbing me. I self destructed. I died before the fleet got there. Should that one frig, who wasn't using any high slots, get a kill mail for just holding a Hyperion? I don't think so.

You were forced to lose your ship, so yes.

Damn nature, you scary!
clamslayer
Doomheim
#117 - 2012-03-24 02:36:23 UTC
DelBoy Trades wrote:
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
Honestly, I feel as if self destructs are working as intended. I think if a fleet or person can't kill something before the self destruct, then they shouldn't get credit for it. I was on a Hyperion once being tackled. and his fleet was 10 jumps away. I wasn't going to hit the guy and my drone bay was empty. I knew his fleet was coming, but the frig was just scramming and webbing me. I self destructed. I died before the fleet got there. Should that one frig, who wasn't using any high slots, get a kill mail for just holding a Hyperion? I don't think so.

You were forced to lose your ship, so yes.



If you don't bring enough dps to kill the target before it self-destructs, too damn bad, bring more dps next time.

The target does lose a ship, but at their own will by self destructing, therefore no loot, mail, intel, or salvage. Legit tactic of warfare.
clamslayer
Doomheim
#118 - 2012-03-24 02:49:25 UTC  |  Edited by: clamslayer
Alu Utukku wrote:
Including self destructs to have a loss mail is a long needed change (as long as it does not go to the self destructor as a 'final blow' but to the last actual blow). +1

now to figure out a way to deal with self destructing sieged gear while in worm holes. perhaps by using the reinforcement timers to prevent such a thing from occurring inside the shield perimeter when reinforced.

looking forward to more details.


Why shouldnt the player who self destructs get the final blow? Because technically ifa player successfully self destructs they killed the ship before their attacker did.

Not difficult to grasp
Alu Utukku
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#119 - 2012-03-24 04:53:08 UTC
clamslayer wrote:


Why shouldnt the player who self destructs get the final blow? Because technically ifa player successfully self destructs they killed the ship before their attacker did.

Not difficult to grasp


an unwillingness to manually post, and an unlikely api pull.

not difficult to grasp, bro.
Kessiaan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#120 - 2012-03-24 04:56:02 UTC
These threads are all the same - broad consensus that self-destructing should generate killmails, and one or two extremely vocal dissenters grasping at straws.

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