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How many Players will quit the game due to the complete removal of High-sec PVP

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Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#181 - 2012-03-23 22:46:49 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:


[...]

If the war dec changes strike the wrong chord you might not even have to wait til the expansion inevitably bombs out like the worse expansion for a game ever "Incarna" to see the effect.

Without "us" EVE is a crap game with dull pve, long periods of inactivity and mediocre graphics. Though props on the crucible graphics upgrades, they were very nice.



Emphasis, mine.

This. Ohmyfreakingod, so totally, this.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#182 - 2012-03-23 22:50:18 UTC
Zverofaust wrote:
IMHO the only people who really, really want PVP in highsec are faggots who are too scared to go anywhere that they don't have the luxery to be completely safe until they pick and choose their unwary targets. As such, and as I never go to highsec anyway because it's literally boring space, they can remove PVP alllllllllllllllll they want. Maybe you should stop being such a carebear and PVP in lowsec.



This is so completely wrong, it's not even pitiful.

1/10.

Back to the "battlegrounds" (heh) for you!

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#183 - 2012-03-23 22:56:35 UTC
Mith'riin wrote:


Get real for one time in your life, go to 0.0 and live/die there. Then you can talk about pvp and go QQQQQQ. 90% of the "Highsec" PvP players do it for griefing or iskies (And then you complain about isk/h on some aspects of the game). I'm sorry for the legit 10% that just wanted to pewpew in 1v1 duels.




Get the **** out of my game-life, you clueless lemming.

Not everyone in EVE is blinkered by the "epic fleet fights = awesome!!111oneone11!" LIES that you RMT/bot-barons spew, and some of us understand that EVE is a niche-sandbox game--that latter is the only thing that makes it really good, because strictly as a game, it is at best, mediocre.

Sandpits are not supposed to have an explicit end-game, either, that's something you nullbears never seem to get through your heads.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#184 - 2012-03-24 01:01:40 UTC
Brom MkLeith wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
I, and a significant amount of the people I know, would probably quit, or draw down our account numbers to at best one per player. It really depends on how much things change

If changes are limited in scope to what has been proposed so far, we'd retaliate by significantly upping the amount of infiltration and in-corp griefing activities to ensure that the amount of accounts CCP loses from our activities completely overshadows the amount of accounts CCP loses from our own unsubscriptions. We'd do everything possible, and within allowed game mechanics, to collect carebear and CCP tears

If CCP makes high-sec completely nonconductive to nonconsensual player interaction, then most of us would flat-out quit. There would be nothing left for us in this game.


It's a shame that the only thing in this game for you is for you to be able to gank people. It's a chickenshit tactic requiring little skill or bravery and it harms the general player base. People crying about the POSSIBILITY of removing non-consensual pvp from HIGH SEC sound like the punk bully who gets his lawyer Daddy to sue the school because they put him in time out for smacking other kids in the head

I don't want the bully killed. I just want to be able to fight back without the teacher taking away everything that I use to protect myself with. If you give the bully a baseball bat then let me have one as well.

Don't remove Non-consensual PVP but make it so it's not soooooo damned cheap and chicken **** to do.

It's not the only thing is this game for me. I've been around since the start (well, just a few months shy of the start). In that time I spent about six years in null and two years in wormholes, and also some time flashy in low, but only until the Capital Age swung into full gear sometime around 2007/2008. I did the whole null thing, and still occasionally go to the NPC areas of null on some characters to **** around.

I see a lot of people romanticizing null in these threads, saying how it's where "real men" with "balls" go to pvp. That couldn't be further from the truth. Null is severely underpopulated, and sovereignty mechanics create a massive safety net for large-scale pve grinding and botting. Taking a trip through even an NPC 0.0 region, you'll quickly see that most decent systems either have a bot, or are empty. Yes, sometimes there is small-scale pvp in null, but it's not the standard. You guys start a defense fleet against a single guy roaming in a Vagabond, and no matter how much you try to convince yourself otherwise, that is the status quo.

You're interested in fair fights no more than the people you accuse of cowardice. And don't tell me I'm wrong; while I know there are exceptions to every rule, I've sat in the same intel channels that you inhabit now, and have read the same "do we hav enuf 4 fleet??" crap over and over again. Ninety-nine times out of one hundred, your goal in a 0.0 pvp battle is to crush the opposing side with overwhelming numerical superiority. The other one percent of engagements is the occasional "goodfite." Sorry, but not everyone has the patience to sift through the shitpile to find that one golden egg. Maybe if you didn't treat null like your own personal ISK-printing fortress of solitude, then I'd be more inclined to take two or three friends for a roam on a regular basis.

High-sec pvp is but one aspect of my game play style, but it's an important one. Why? Because it's most representative of the sandbox nature of this game. If CCP removes non-consensual pvp from high-sec, I'll leave not because of an inability to get easy industrial kills, but because at that point the game's sandbox nature would have become completely sterilized.

You say you don't want the teacher taking away everything that you use to protect yourself with, but in reality, by supporting this change you're simply asking the teacher to allow you to bring your dad to school so he can beat up that bully.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#185 - 2012-03-24 01:26:38 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
[...]

I see a lot of people romanticizing null in these threads, saying how it's where "real men" with "balls" go to pvp. That couldn't be further from the truth. Null is severely underpopulated, and sovereignty mechanics create a massive safety net for large-scale pve grinding and botting. Taking a trip through even an NPC 0.0 region, you'll quickly see that most decent systems either have a bot, or are empty. Yes, sometimes there is small-scale pvp in null, but it's not the standard. You guys start a defense fleet against a single guy roaming in a Vagabond, and no matter how much you try to convince yourself otherwise, that is the status quo.

You're interested in fair fights no more than the people you accuse of cowardice. And don't tell me I'm wrong; while I know there are exceptions to every rule, I've sat in the same intel channels that you inhabit now, and have read the same "do we hav enuf 4 fleet??" crap over and over again. Ninety-nine times out of one hundred, your goal in a 0.0 pvp battle is to crush the opposing side with overwhelming numerical superiority. The other one percent of engagements is the occasional "goodfite." Sorry, but not everyone has the patience to sift through the shitpile to find that one golden egg. Maybe if you didn't treat null like your own personal ISK-printing fortress of solitude, then I'd be more inclined to take two or three friends for a roam on a regular basis.

High-sec pvp is but one aspect of my game play style, but it's an important one. Why? Because it's most representative of the sandbox nature of this game. If CCP removes non-consensual pvp from high-sec, I'll leave not because of an inability to get easy industrial kills, but because at that point the game's sandbox nature would have become completely sterilized.

You say you don't want the teacher taking away everything that you use to protect yourself with, but in reality, by supporting this change you're simply asking the teacher to allow you to bring your dad to school so he can beat up that bully.


^^This, especially the last two paragraphs: Says it all so perfectly, and so full of win.^^

[/Thread]

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Souvera Corvus
Buena Vista Social Club.
#186 - 2012-03-24 01:29:17 UTC
Carebears Control Playerbase wrote:
Refer to the subject.

If you are to lazy to check again "How many Players will quit the game due to the complete removal of High-sec PVP"

Just curious.

Edit: I didn't make this thread to ***** and moan about the changes, I just wanted to see and show the amount of the playerbase that would be affected.


I'd like to see you go first.

Then I'd like to see all of the 'hardcore high-sec pvp'ers' who prey on targets they know damn well won't shoot back **** off as well.

You did ask...........
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#187 - 2012-03-24 01:35:08 UTC
So what is the real reason you PvP in high-sec as opposed to lowsec? I've heard reasons for why you don't want to go to null. Okay. 0.0 blobs. Is it the same reason for low?

What is it that separates high-sec from low-sec and null-sec? I want to hear what's good about high-sec PvP... not what's bad about the other two.

Katrina Oniseki
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#188 - 2012-03-24 01:38:13 UTC
Wooh boy, nullsec. Only join if you like the idea of a mouth-breathing aspie screaming orders at you over vent.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#189 - 2012-03-24 01:42:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
So what is the real reason you PvP in high-sec as opposed to lowsec? I've heard reasons for why you don't want to go to null. Okay. 0.0 blobs. Is it the same reason for low?

What is it that separates high-sec from low-sec and null-sec? I want to hear what's good about high-sec PvP... not what's bad about the other two.


Here's just one good thing of many...

Read post #65 in this thread:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=84901&p=4

As well:

One thing that I think is good is that you can choose--to engage, to not engage, or to just disappear into the crowd:

PvP can be had, more or less on your terms, and on your time--this also somewhat applies to losec--or not, as/when you choose, with friends--3 or 5, not 500+ people you don't even know--as you choose, or not.

HiSec, ideally is arguably the most "sandboxy" part of the sandbox, basically, but this is only because you--and everyone--are never 100% safe, even though a more convincing illusion that you are exists.

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#190 - 2012-03-24 01:50:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
So what is the real reason you PvP in high-sec as opposed to lowsec? I've heard reasons for why you don't want to go to null. Okay. 0.0 blobs. Is it the same reason for low?

What is it that separates high-sec from low-sec and null-sec? I want to hear what's good about high-sec PvP... not what's bad about the other two.


Here's one good thing:

Read post 65 in this thread.

One thing that I think is good is that you can choose--to engage, to not engage, or to just disappear into the crowd:

PvP can be had, more or less on your terms, and on your time--this also somewhat applies to losec--or not, as/when you choose, with friends--3 or 5, not 500+ people you don't even know--as you choose, or not.

HiSec, ideally is arguably the most "sandboxy part of the sandbox, basically, but this is only because you--and everyone--are never 100% safe, even though a more convincing illusion that you are exists.


I can see where you're coming from with that then about 1v1 PvP. Gang fights in Highsec tend to be pretty lame though, with slaved and pimped Vindicators (as an example) and neutral RR. The same mechanics that allow 1v1 PvP to be done easily and without too much risk don't scale well into gang fights. People are able to fly around in things that would get you hotdropped in low-sec. People leave logistics out in the open, play obvious station games, and simply aren't exposed to enough risk at that level.

That's my opinion.

Katrina Oniseki
ConranAntoni
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#191 - 2012-03-24 01:50:53 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
So what is the real reason you PvP in high-sec as opposed to lowsec? I've heard reasons for why you don't want to go to null. Okay. 0.0 blobs. Is it the same reason for low?

What is it that separates high-sec from low-sec and null-sec? I want to hear what's good about high-sec PvP... not what's bad about the other two.



Personally, sheer number of delicious targets and tears harvesting in highsec. It helps fuel my shitfit canes in lowsec.

If lowsec had higher population density, sure, I can imagine alot more things would happen there. But while theres idiots like the masses on this forum, while theres impotent rage from those whose only existance stems from their comfortable little sandcastle in the sandpit, there will always be many, a great many, who will enjoy EvE for the sandpit it is. Don't like your sandcastle being knocked over, dont build it where other people can see it.

Empyrean Warriors - Recruiting now.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#192 - 2012-03-24 01:53:04 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
So what is the real reason you PvP in high-sec as opposed to lowsec? I've heard reasons for why you don't want to go to null. Okay. 0.0 blobs. Is it the same reason for low?

What is it that separates high-sec from low-sec and null-sec? I want to hear what's good about high-sec PvP... not what's bad about the other two.

Low is essentially the same thing. Let me find one of my previous posts...

Destiny Corrupted wrote:
...

Low-sec will still be a numbers-and-capitals game as usual. The last time I went there, I had a guy in a faction cruiser tackle and shoot me with one gun at a station. I targeted him back, and sent a flight of medium armor bots in his direction. The drones weren't even halfway there when he popped the cyno. I highly doubt this kind of behavior will ever change.

Personally, I wish low-sec would get a nice boost to entice people to go there. I'd certainly like to go back. I just don't expect it to happen.

There are a few things I like about high-sec pvp, and I loosely define high-sec pvp as a combination of wars, suicide-ganking, and can-flipping:

- It can be highly profitable
- It is more dynamic, since you don't always know who has neutral assistance, and how much of it
- Ability to use high-end implant sets and ships
- Less emphasis on blobbing, smaller-scale pvp
- No capitals

About half of those reasons is why I also like wormhole stuff, but unfortunately, wormholes' inherent nature means that pvp happens inconsistently (but is quite enjoyable when it does).

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Soporo
#193 - 2012-03-24 02:11:24 UTC
I've no idea what else is gonna happen, but I rather doubt they will totally nerf nonconsentual high sec pvp. I mean, cmon...

On the plus side, neutral rr is supposedly gonna get fixed. Smile

As for Null, whatever. Been there, done that (over and over add nauseaum), and fk that noise.

SubCap is where it's at.

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H.L. Mencken
Ender Karazaki
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#194 - 2012-03-24 02:55:04 UTC
In EVE, I'd rather people be scared than bored. Just sayin'.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#195 - 2012-03-24 05:57:08 UTC
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#196 - 2012-03-24 07:20:47 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:

What is it that separates high-sec from low-sec and null-sec? I want to hear what's good about high-sec PvP... not what's bad about the other two.


If the choice farms weren't in High Sec for all the sheep to graze at the wolves wouldn't be there. Move the good farms to where they ought to be in Null, Low Sec and WH space and see much of the High Sec PvP leave with them.
Gedid Tava
Alpha Galactic Group
#197 - 2012-03-24 09:28:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Gedid Tava
I find this thread much easier to stomach when I read "PvP" not as Player vs Player but Predator vs Prey. HS PvP has never been anything but cyclical predation. It functions primarily around finding players who choose a more passive or less conflict oriented play style and punishing them for how they choose to play the game. Often this is done through mechanics that, while not exploits, are sketchy or just poorly designed. Primarily can flips and war decs.

EVE's a tough place where your balls should get stepped on every day; this does not apply as wholly as it should in HS. All entities are naturally risk averse, it's simple survival. It's no surprise that some players choose HS predation due to it's high reward and, once you learn how to game the system, low risk. Pick your targets well, reap tear filled evemails, feel your genitals swell.

I'm eager to see the final implementation of the Suspect/Felon mechanic. Primarily the "can the suspect shoot back when fired upon" question. Frankly, it'll blow my mind if they can't. That's criminally (ho ho) un-EVE. White Knights should put themselves at risk for the chance to fluff their ego by shooting "bad guys" just as Black Barts will put themselves at risk for the chance to fluff their ego by shooting "viable targets". Risk and Reward coming closer into line.

If the HiSec Pirate vanishes due to the changes, it will only be temporary. As these go in, carebears will feel emboldened and become more lax in their safety protocols. Kills will still be had. Tears will still be shed. CCP's just getting rid of the "If I help my friend, I get blown up but their friend can rep and that's ok?" types of illogic that are currently used as shields by the attackers.

For good or bad, the changes are coming. My gut tells me that CCP won't pay much heed even if all the griefers get together and have an Amarrian sit-in.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#198 - 2012-03-24 09:42:06 UTC
Gedid Tava wrote:
CCP's just getting rid of the "If I help my friend, I get blown up but their friend can rep and that's ok?" types of illogic that are currently used as shields by the attackers.

That's a ridiculous claim. What exactly is stopping you from helping your friend? Just start repairing him. CONCORD won't intervene, just like it won't intervene when the flipper's friend provide remote assistance.

I'm not entirely sure that some of the posters in these threads even play this game.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Sol Tertia
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#199 - 2012-03-24 09:51:32 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Gedid Tava wrote:
CCP's just getting rid of the "If I help my friend, I get blown up but their friend can rep and that's ok?" types of illogic that are currently used as shields by the attackers.

That's a ridiculous claim. What exactly is stopping you from helping your friend? Just start repairing him. CONCORD won't intervene, just like it won't intervene when the flipper's friend provide remote assistance.

I'm not entirely sure that some of the posters in these threads even play this game.

Two remote repaired ships neither of which is going to die, that sounds like fun for nobody. The point is if you flip a can the friend who's hanging around to provide security should be able to blow you out of the sky not just provide a little repping.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#200 - 2012-03-24 10:10:13 UTC
Sol Tertia wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Gedid Tava wrote:
CCP's just getting rid of the "If I help my friend, I get blown up but their friend can rep and that's ok?" types of illogic that are currently used as shields by the attackers.

That's a ridiculous claim. What exactly is stopping you from helping your friend? Just start repairing him. CONCORD won't intervene, just like it won't intervene when the flipper's friend provide remote assistance.

I'm not entirely sure that some of the posters in these threads even play this game.

Two remote repaired ships neither of which is going to die, that sounds like fun for nobody. The point is if you flip a can the friend who's hanging around to provide security should be able to blow you out of the sky not just provide a little repping.

If that friend is in the victim's corporation, he can.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted