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Confusing abuse, when is an exploit an exploit?
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gfldex
#21 - 2012-03-22 20:54:17 UTC
Aphoxema G wrote:
If another player does not understand that this is considered an illegal exploit, or even if this is done entirely on accident, or even if it's not even used and they manage to kill someone, they can get banned forever?


They get banned after a GM told them to stop using this exploit. First offense will always get you a warning until you threaten somebody IRL, you bot, RMT or use an exploit to get sick rich in no time.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#22 - 2012-03-22 21:06:52 UTC
gfldex wrote:
Aphoxema G wrote:
If another player does not understand that this is considered an illegal exploit, or even if this is done entirely on accident, or even if it's not even used and they manage to kill someone, they can get banned forever?


They get banned after a GM told them to stop using this exploit. First offense will always get you a warning until you threaten somebody IRL, you bot, RMT or use an exploit to get sick rich in no time.


And that's a process I can appreciate.

I know that GMs will generally be fair, I raise my eyebrow when someone says they were banned for no reason because I have doubts that it was for no reason. I'm still going to advocate the player, though, because in a screwed up world it's easy to get swept up with the bad guys. It's more important that some unscrupulous players will get through than to go punishing the ones who act to make this world what it is.

It didn't help that I saw that dev blog after seeing this... https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=84360&find=unread

It doesn't matter to me that the thread was closed, the troubling part is the important question was never answered and now never gets the chance to be answered; Is it not a legitimate thing to RR sentry drones and walk away? When exactly is it okay to do nothing and make money (R&D agents) and when does it become exploitative to use game mechanics to indirectly do the same thing (sitting in a site with drones out)?

I'm not asking for an answer to that, it's just an example of where lack of communication can be upsetting. No one has yet said it's okay to web friendly freighters or sit in a belt with drones out all day, but hints have been made that it might not be.
Borun Tal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-03-22 22:09:02 UTC
Astrid Stjerna wrote:
Punishment needs to be direct and unambiguous-- the rules can't be applied contextually, lest we get bogged down in an argument about which law applies when. Claiming that it's a 'victimless crime' allows the application of law to slip further and further into ambiguity, until the law iself becomes meaningless.


You do understand that we're talking about Eve Online and CCP Games, yeah? Cuz, it sounds like you're talking about some fine, upstanding gaming community. Twisted
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#24 - 2012-03-22 22:36:24 UTC
Aphoxema G wrote:
[quote=Astrid Stjerna]

A small punishment isn't necessarily ineffective. I know it's cynical, but the reason they are turning to threats is because it's easier to ban someone than it is to fix the problem or reimburse for losses.


Just wanted to point out, Aphox, that they're working on a fix for the problem, according to the post you quoted.

Yeah, I'm not in favor of permanent bans, myself, but the use of 'loopholes' in a game environment can have unintended side-effects (some of them can even destablize the server).

I'll give you an example:

Just after I bought The Sims 3 (yeah, laugh at me all you want, guys ;) ), I discovered that by repeatedly renaming my 'family' in a certain way in the Creation screen, I would end up with a family in which the parents were married to their grandparents, three people were pregnant with the same child, and one person was married to himselfand was his own grandchild.

The point I'm trying to make is that if your game glitches and your graphics look wonky, it's one thing -- but if you go out of your way to combine game mechanics in a way that clearly lets you do something that you shouldn't (or normally couldn't), it's a different story.

And go ahead and be cynical -- it just means you're not going to be suckered as easily as people hope :)

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....
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