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Fanfest: Crimewatch

First post First post
Author
Katrina Oniseki
Oniseki-Raata Internal Watch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#21 - 2012-03-22 16:07:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Katrina Oniseki
Okay just to be sure, am I correct in my understanding of the changes to suicide ganking?

Does this mean a single cruiser could spend an hour soloing a freighter in highsec, and only get CONCORDed when the freighter dies (however long that takes)? Sure anyone can shoot me... but how many people are actually going to shoot me instead of help kill that freighter and nab all the loot?

In other words... suicide ganking is gone. You don't even need to gank. Just kill them normally with the understanding that you will die too afterwards.

Katrina Oniseki

Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-03-22 16:08:16 UTC
Actually if some of those changes leads to genocide all neutral alts/jams/boosters: awesome and needed

Being rewarded for killing criminals in high sec is common sense, it's the risk vs reward and the consequence of a choice, and criminals have nothing to do in HIGH SEC, their place is in low/null sec because it's the consequence of their choice of shooting everything just because they can.
I'm am not convinced if those changes are implemented that those high sec players that don't know other game play style than abuse game fail mechanics will ever move to low/null sec, the main reason being that those are the most risk averse player type you'll ever find in Eve. Expect hundreds pages and threads of ragequit crap.

Faction criminals being pursued by faction Police, get flagged and killed scrammed etc this seems fair enough to me: action = consequence

Well, those are just some lines of what has been told by some devs. This means they acknowledge the benefit of those needed changes or at least the downside of actual ones. I'm not naïf so I'm happy this has been told by them, but do I believe it will be implemented? -not really.

So far seems a good fanfest.
Velicia Tuoro
Light Speed Interactive
#23 - 2012-03-22 16:08:17 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:

Any news on the return of Flashy Flashy?


This was asked in the questions section. CCP Greyscale admitted it was his request to remove that. It was down to them not being a threat in high sec. (unless they are going to gank...) It didn't seem like they were going to add it back.

Senior Representative Light Speed Interactive http://www.lightspeedinteractive.net

Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-03-22 16:14:03 UTC
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Okay just to be sure, am I correct in my understanding of the changes to suicide ganking?

Does this mean a single cruiser could spend an hour soloing a freighter in highsec, and only get CONCORDed when the freighter dies (however long that takes)? Sure anyone can shoot me... but how many people are actually going to shoot me instead of help kill that freighter and nab all the loot?

In other words... suicide ganking is gone. You don't even need to gank. Just kill them normally with the understanding that you will die too afterwards.



Had same thought than you. Need more information because this looks more like regression than improvement and just replaces actual wardec/gank mechanics for cheaper easier ones? -what's the point?
Jace Errata
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-03-22 16:14:14 UTC
Floppie- it looks like they're separating "shooting" and "killing". Shooting gives you Suspect, killing gives you Criminal.

tweeten

One day they woke me up so I could live forever

It's such a shame the same will never happen to you

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
#26 - 2012-03-22 16:14:46 UTC
Velicia Tuoro wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:

Any news on the return of Flashy Flashy?


This was asked in the questions section. CCP Greyscale admitted it was his request to remove that. It was down to them not being a threat in high sec. (unless they are going to gank...) It didn't seem like they were going to add it back.


So... he really thinks that flashy flashy pirates aren't a threat in high sec? Lol

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#27 - 2012-03-22 16:16:39 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Velicia Tuoro wrote:
New "suspect" flag
- Minor crimes. Anyone can shoot you without penalty.
- Flipping a can for example

- Shooting someone makes you a suspect (I think)
- Anyone assisting a suspect becomes a suspect
- Not sure if gate guns will attack a suspect. Undecided yet.


So you're basically saying that they're deviating from their course of gradually removing pvp from high-sec by removing it entirely in one fell swoop? Even a can flip duel will no longer be viable?


Eve is a unforgiving harsh place. Now for everyone, not just bears.

HTFU, etc.

Mr Epeen Cool

Being "hard" and being suicidal are not necessarily mutually inclusive. It will indeed require people who take the cans of others (for whatever reason) to become harder. However, when a game mechanic forces an extreme tactical disadvantage on players when they perform a specific action, they will stop performing said action.

If CCP were to propose a system in which a player who performs some kind of unsavory action is immediately enclosed in a glass prison to act as a pinata for anyone who wants to take a swing, I doubt your reply would have been any different. It's a nice blanket justification for any changes the developers make, no matter how stupid they are.

And that's the thing: I'm not against changes that help carebears; I'm against changes that cause imbalance. Case in point:

Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Okay just to be sure, am I correct in my understanding of the changes to suicide ganking?

Does this mean a single cruiser could spend an hour soloing a freighter in highsec, and only get CONCORDed when the freighter dies (however long that takes)? Sure anyone can shoot me... but how many people are actually going to shoot me instead of help kill that freighter and nab all the loot?

In other words... suicide ganking is gone. You don't even need to gank. Just kill them normally with the understanding that you will die too afterwards.

This would be about as balanced as a change that results in a criminal flag for non-criminal actions. It wouldn't be balanced, and this is coming from someone who really really likes to blow up defenseless haulers for their loot.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Velicia Tuoro
Light Speed Interactive
#28 - 2012-03-22 16:18:29 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:

So... he really thinks that flashy flashy pirates aren't a threat in high sec? Lol

-Liang


there was a laugh to that comment :)

Senior Representative Light Speed Interactive http://www.lightspeedinteractive.net

Thabiso
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#29 - 2012-03-22 16:22:25 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Pak Narhoo wrote:
Just know it's still on paper. Nothing hard, nothing coded. Can go anyway from here.

Like a good point: friendly can flipping to have a 1 on 1 fight is out the window with these presumed changes.

Oh, I'm by no means jumping to conclusions; I know these things aren't set in stone. However, if a change like this is even on the table, it has to be fought tooth and nail for the sake of this game's integrity.

If can-flipping is just an "example," think of how many other "suspect" actions might result in this type of flag:

- Scanning someone's ship/cargo
- Trying to access someone's secure container
- Shooting an NPC that's part of someone else's mission
- Why not just go ahead and say it: locking someone without their permission


If you start going through my backpack on the street to see if anything was worth stealing, I guarentee you there will be repercussions or if I catch you stabbing the tire on my bike there will be consequences.

Also, shooting someone elses NPC should be a punisable offence, you might kill his trigger/trigger drop, which could end farming or prevent a turn-in of mission.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
#30 - 2012-03-22 16:22:54 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

Being "hard" and being suicidal are not necessarily mutually inclusive. It will indeed require people who take the cans of others (for whatever reason) to become harder. However, when a game mechanic forces an extreme tactical disadvantage on players when they perform a specific action, they will stop performing said action.

If CCP were to propose a system in which a player who performs some kind of unsavory action is immediately enclosed in a glass prison to act as a pinata for anyone who wants to take a swing, I doubt your reply would have been any different. It's a nice blanket justification for any changes the developers make, no matter how stupid they are.

And that's the thing: I'm not against changes that help carebears; I'm against changes that cause imbalance. Case in point:


I'm not sure that the change makes for an "extreme tactical disadvantage". Its more like being red flashy (anyone can shoot you) but being allowed to be in high sec all the time. I'm likely to just roam in a PVP ship can flipping every system just so retards will shoot at me.

Can flipping one guy gives everyone aggression against you? So much easier.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
#31 - 2012-03-22 16:24:11 UTC
Thabiso wrote:

Also, shooting someone elses NPC should be a punisable offence, you might kill his trigger/trigger drop, which could end farming or prevent a turn-in of mission.


Mission drop/triggers are based purely on the death of the NPC - regardless of who shoots it. If someone came into my missions and shot all my rats, I'd tell them "thanks!".

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#32 - 2012-03-22 16:27:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
Velicia Tuoro wrote:
Assisting people grants jump/dock timers. Keeps resetting until assist stops or original persons timer expires.

Hear that? That's the sound of neutral RR alts being sold in a few months.

People who field single or small numbers of non-chaining logistics ships like Oneiros and Scimitars to save their asses when they get themselves into stupid fights are going to scream bloody murder. However people who routinely field large numbers of chaining logistics ships as part of fleets aren't going to be affected at all.

Because of the limit number of involved parties and the lack of escalation highsec wars are going to be minimally affected. However, carriers on stations and gangs on gates in lowsec are going to be totally screwed.
Adunh Slavy
#33 - 2012-03-22 16:37:24 UTC
Suspect Flag

Sounds fun. Opens the door for smuggling as a profession, flag a contraband player carrying ship when it jumps through a gate and let the players deal with it. Steal the guys stuff and jump the next gate your self - Big game of hot potato with guns.

Criminal Flag

No real change that I can tell


Sec Status

Tags for sec status sounds good. Can start dropping tags from rats and less ISK, could help reduce the faucets by producing something "new", useful and in line with the back story.

Could be expanded into faction standings as well. Turn in tags, also allow tags to be contraband in the appropriate areas, also useful for FW.

The + guys shooting bad guys sounds fun too. Obviously some alt abuse issues to work out, but it could be a time limited thing like only get the bonus once every hour, or once every 15 minutes, the same way it is done for rats.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#34 - 2012-03-22 16:41:26 UTC
Karl Planck wrote:
nope, just fleet up and meet at a safe

And pound dscan for probes if I'm around and have reason to think there are valid targets to be had.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#35 - 2012-03-22 16:42:26 UTC
Thabiso wrote:
If you start going through my backpack on the street to see if anything was worth stealing, I guarentee you there will be repercussions or if I catch you stabbing the tire on my bike there will be consequences.

Is that what you tell the TSA agents when they make you take off your shoes to check for explosives? How do I know you're not carrying contraband in that ship of yours?

Thabiso wrote:
Also, shooting someone elses NPC should be a punisable offence, you might kill his trigger/trigger drop, which could end farming or prevent a turn-in of mission.

I'd be perfectly fine with this change, as long as punishment rights are only limited to the person who received the mission from the agent, and not every neutral in local.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Thabiso
Merchants of the Golden Goose
#36 - 2012-03-22 16:47:16 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Thabiso wrote:
If you start going through my backpack on the street to see if anything was worth stealing, I guarentee you there will be repercussions or if I catch you stabbing the tire on my bike there will be consequences.

Is that what you tell the TSA agents when they make you take off your shoes to check for explosives? How do I know you're not carrying contraband in that ship of yours?

Thabiso wrote:
Also, shooting someone elses NPC should be a punisable offence, you might kill his trigger/trigger drop, which could end farming or prevent a turn-in of mission.

I'd be perfectly fine with this change, as long as punishment rights are only limited to the person who received the mission from the agent, and not every neutral in local.


Why would I complain about police/TSA? Granted I don't like TSA, but they have a government appointed job. It's not your prerogative to check if I'm carrying something dangerous; you are invading private space and thus will be dealt with by me and/or bystanders (fun experiment, go out on the street and put your hand in someones purse and see what happens*)






*Actually don't, real life has real consequences
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
#37 - 2012-03-22 16:51:23 UTC
Tanya Powers wrote:
Katrina Oniseki wrote:
Okay just to be sure, am I correct in my understanding of the changes to suicide ganking?

Does this mean a single cruiser could spend an hour soloing a freighter in highsec, and only get CONCORDed when the freighter dies (however long that takes)? Sure anyone can shoot me... but how many people are actually going to shoot me instead of help kill that freighter and nab all the loot?

In other words... suicide ganking is gone. You don't even need to gank. Just kill them normally with the understanding that you will die too afterwards.



Had same thought than you. Need more information because this looks more like regression than improvement and just replaces actual wardec/gank mechanics for cheaper easier ones? -what's the point?



What it would facilitate is the use of escorts for valuable cargo and mining fleets, anyone taking a shot would become a valid target for the escorts.

WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place...

Stellar Vix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-03-22 16:53:27 UTC
Not sure if win for SWA PVP.

Time will tell.

-Vix

SWA Instructor, Commander Select Currently being blamed as SWA's CEO SWA PVP Program

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#39 - 2012-03-22 16:53:44 UTC
Thabiso wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Thabiso wrote:
If you start going through my backpack on the street to see if anything was worth stealing, I guarentee you there will be repercussions or if I catch you stabbing the tire on my bike there will be consequences.

Is that what you tell the TSA agents when they make you take off your shoes to check for explosives? How do I know you're not carrying contraband in that ship of yours?

Thabiso wrote:
Also, shooting someone elses NPC should be a punisable offence, you might kill his trigger/trigger drop, which could end farming or prevent a turn-in of mission.

I'd be perfectly fine with this change, as long as punishment rights are only limited to the person who received the mission from the agent, and not every neutral in local.


Why would I complain about police/TSA? Granted I don't like TSA, but they have a government appointed job. It's not your prerogative to check if I'm carrying something dangerous; you are invading private space and thus will be dealt with by me and/or bystanders (fun experiment, go out on the street and put your hand in someones purse and see what happens*)






*Actually don't, real life has real consequences

According to that logic, I should also get flagged to all players after taking a peek, much less firing upon, a Serpentis frigate.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

None ofthe Above
#40 - 2012-03-22 17:05:55 UTC
Karl Planck wrote:
Pak Narhoo wrote:
Just know it's still on paper. Nothing hard, nothing coded. Can go anyway from here.

Like a good point: friendly can flipping to have a 1 on 1 fight is out the window with these presumed changes.



nope, just fleet up and meet at a safe


If I could be spared from another massively lame "you take from my can... no you take from my can" spamming of local, this is a very good thing.

Perhaps an actual dueling mechanic, a more personal consensual miniwar dec for good fytes should be considered.

(Not to be interpreted as me advocating making wardecs consensual only, am talking about a dueling mechanic.)

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.