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Rattlesnake versus CNR

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Corpus Raziel
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-03-22 11:31:33 UTC
Hi ya'll


I've not played for a fair while now, on returning to the game I breezed through my first level 4 within about 20 - 30 minutes with my CNR. During that time I was looking at the market and noticed the Rattlesnake was seemingly cheaper than I recall. I created a basic level 4 running fit on EFT and noticed, although I gain a sizeable increase in my active shield tank I loose a fair amount of dps, even if i use torps (which presents the problem of range).

Does anyone have any suggestions?
Archa4 Badasaz
Vangazhi
#2 - 2012-03-22 11:40:42 UTC
As far as I know, the Rattle is worse for L4 then CNR.
However, it has a nice passive shield tank for L5.

If you want to have a better performance at L4, and don't mind using torps, Look into Golem, but it is also not perfect. You need 2-3 Target painters to make it work
Corpus Raziel
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-03-22 11:47:11 UTC
Yeah I remember that debate, arguably for level 5's I'd be looking at a tengu though surely? (For the Passive shield tank)
Lando Tarsadan
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-03-22 13:09:52 UTC
IMHO the rattlesnake is mainly good for "afking" missions as imo it relies on DPS from your drones and tank can take a heavy beating. Its not a fast boat. for speed i mainly use tengu or mach.
OfBalance
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-03-22 13:29:41 UTC  |  Edited by: OfBalance
Inb4 Ireland VonVicious finds this thread.

Also, whomever said the rattlesnake will never be as fast at missions is correct. The only exception being those where you would have to warp out with a CNR (ie. arc missions like "showtime") or if your CNR fit is really bad, like CCC rigs bad. So if you're a joe casual L4 grinder (god help you) there's little reason to invest in a snake except change of pace.
Corpus Raziel
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-03-22 13:38:34 UTC
Seems like alots changed *hides CNR fit*

Could you recommend a decent fit for my CNR? Let's avoid officer modules for now...
OfBalance
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-03-22 13:45:54 UTC  |  Edited by: OfBalance
[Raven Navy Issue, Mid-grade]
Signal Amplifier II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II
Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II


Fit hardeners to mission appropriate, drop a tp if you feel insecure on tank.
Hans Momaki
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-03-22 21:26:50 UTC
[Raven Navy Issue, tank and gank]
Internal Force field Array I
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Caldari Navy Photon scattering field
Caldari Navy Heat dissipation field
Gist C-Type X-Large shield booster
Dread guristas Shield boost amplifier
Republic Fleet Target painter
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability field I

Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Heavy diminishing Power System drain I

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

Does every mission, provides a little more EHP
Oh, and beware, fit is damn tight on CPU. You probably have to drop the nos if you hesitate to fit faction stuff.
drdxie
#9 - 2012-03-22 23:24:22 UTC
To answer the question simply, look a the ship bonuses, the Rattkesnake is basically a super domi.. it has drone bonuses. if you worried about tank on your CNR, look at a Navy Scorpion. On one of my toons I use a navy scorp with 2x TP, and I am pretty sure even with the loss of DPS from the CNR, it works better. 2 x TP and 3 x rigors will hit full damage on a cruiser with fury. Haven't used a CNR, so this is all speculative.

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#10 - 2012-03-23 01:32:51 UTC
drdxie wrote:
To answer the question simply, look a the ship bonuses, the Rattkesnake is basically a super domi..

It's basically a lame Domi that is overtanked and can't fit a good highslot offensive rack. Sad
Slippery Surgeon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-03-27 22:17:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Slippery Surgeon
Not to change the topic but... How about.. Scorpion Navy Issue versus Raven Navy Issue?

This is a little closer to comparing apples to apples.
The rattlesnake is simply a different boat; different style.

Here is my fit for the Navy Scorp.
I like this fit over the CNR A la Lang b/c it allows for an ab. I simply love having that AB on there.
The dps is a bit lower, but the added defense and AB make up for it, in my opinion.


[Scorpion Navy Issue, L4]

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II

Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
Heavy Capacitor Booster II
Target Painter II
Target Painter II

Khanid Navy Ballistic Control System
Khanid Navy Ballistic Control System
Khanid Navy Ballistic Control System
Khanid Navy Ballistic Control System

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I


Wasp II x3
Archa4 Badasaz
Vangazhi
#12 - 2012-03-27 22:24:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Archa4 Badasaz
Slippery Surgeon wrote:
Not to change the topic but... How about.. Scorpion Navy Issue versus Raven Navy Issue?

This is a little closer to comparing apples to apples.
The rattlesnake is simply a different boat; different style.

Here is my fit for the Navy Scorp.
I like this fit over the CNR A la Lang b/c it allows for an ab. I simply love having that AB on there.
The dps is a bit lower, but the added defense and AB make up for it, in my opinion.


[Scorpion Navy Issue, L4]

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II

Dread Guristas X-Large Shield Booster
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
Heavy Capacitor Booster II
Target Painter II
Target Painter II

Khanid Navy Ballistic Control System
Khanid Navy Ballistic Control System
Khanid Navy Ballistic Control System
Khanid Navy Ballistic Control System

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I


Wasp II x3


Why do you use rigors and flares?
There is no penalty in using same type of these, so, I think, you should go either all Flares or all Rigors, because they all add up.
And Rigors are the best (unfortunately only for guided missiles).

And my CNR fit:

Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher
Small Tractor Beam II

Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Pith X-Type Ballistic Deflection Field
Pith X-Type Heat Dissipation Field
Pith X-Type Heat Dissipation Field

Capacitor Flux Coil II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Constrol System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Constrol System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Constrol System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Constrol System

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I

If tractor beam is off, capstable at 35%

And I usually do missions with only few pockets And i don't need to use AB.
Of course you have to use mission specific hardeners, but it chews through cruisers and BC very fast.
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
#13 - 2012-03-27 22:25:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Patri Andari
Corpus Raziel wrote:
Hi ya'll


I've not played for a fair while now, on returning to the game I breezed through my first level 4 within about 20 - 30 minutes with my CNR. During that time I was looking at the market and noticed the Rattlesnake was seemingly cheaper than I recall. I created a basic level 4 running fit on EFT and noticed, although I gain a sizeable increase in my active shield tank I loose a fair amount of dps, even if i use torps (which presents the problem of range).

Does anyone have any suggestions?


Basically, they nerfed Guristas If you use missiles and buffed them if you used drones. Result? Caldari have NO, 0, null, nothing after faction ships where their skills matter (training Missiles, Hybrid and Caldari) and Gallente have 3 ship lines to choose from.

Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#14 - 2012-03-28 00:20:09 UTC
Corpus Raziel wrote:
Seems like alots changed *hides CNR fit*

Could you recommend a decent fit for my CNR? Let's avoid officer modules for now...

Personally I perfer to use CN launchers and T1 ammo, so I don't need a TP, and I have an AB instead.

[Raven Navy Issue, Liang's Mission CNR Fit]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Signal Amplifier II

Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Photon Scattering Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Republic Fleet Target Painter

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-03-28 01:55:17 UTC
Rattlesnake is cheap for a reason.
That reason being it's a horrible, horrible ship.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Slippery Surgeon
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-03-28 20:06:31 UTC
Archa4 Badasaz wrote:
[quote=Slippery Surgeon]

Why do you use rigors and flares?
There is no penalty in using same type of these, so, I think, you should go either all Flares or all Rigors, because they all add up.
And Rigors are the best (unfortunately only for guided missiles).



I choose the flares because I'm going for the theory that I will have more consistent hits.
I am thinking that with the target painters, and the flares, that when I am taking out the fast movers, I will do more damage.

I use this fit for lvl 4's. I have not been running level 4s for very long but so far there are a lot of frigs and cruisers - fast movers. So I'm trying to compensate for their small signature radius and velocity - going for solid hits rather than glancing blows?

But like I said, I am new to lvl 4's. I have been doing them for about 1 month. So, any feedback on my theory above is welcome.
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
#17 - 2012-03-31 11:23:04 UTC
The Rattlesnake is great for small fleets doing level 4s since it can tank the whole mission easily but by itself it is one boring slow moving low dps monster. If you want to just warp in, agro the room and release t2 sentries while you go afk for awhile, then its the ship.
Raven Ether
Doomheim
#18 - 2012-03-31 12:57:42 UTC
Well simply put, with the CNR (especially Tengu) you have to sit glued on your screen and manage shield boosters and targets.

With the Rattlesnake, you just grab aggro and release your Ogre IIs, and they clean up EVERYTHING (even spider drones).

L4s are grindy enough. Being forced to stay glued on them only makes it worse.

It won't be as fast with the Rattlesnake, but greatly more bearable.
Celeritas 5k
Connoisseurs of Candid Coitus
#19 - 2012-04-01 11:45:08 UTC
OfBalance wrote:
[Raven Navy Issue, Mid-grade]
Signal Amplifier II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II
Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II


Fit hardeners to mission appropriate, drop a tp if you feel insecure on tank.


You drop 100 mil on the 4th BCS that gets you less than 10 DPS over T2, but you won't go for the republic fleet painters at 30 mil each?

Anyway, I prefer the navy issue scorp if I have to fly a missile boat or need the tank/range. In all honesty, since the buff I prefer my rail hyperion-- blaps frigs/cruisers while they close, no messing with target painters or counting volleys, 5 second reload and the cherry on top: it outdamages the scorp by 150dps inside 45k. I get 10-11 mil ticks pretty reliably on missions where the scorp would only get 6-8. It does have drawbacks; it's light on tank and can only deal kin/therm.

My scorp fit--

[Scorpion Navy Issue, ugh]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Republic Fleet Target Painter
Republic Fleet Target Painter
Pith A-Type X-Large Shield Booster
Caldari Navy Explosion Dampening Field
Caldari Navy Ballistic Deflection Field
Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Shield Boost Amplifier II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Trauma Fury Cruise Missile
Auto Targeting System I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst I


Hammerhead II x5
Warrior II x5

Auto-targeter because I'm lazy, and what the hell else will you do with the slot? You can swap the last cap rig for a rigor/flare if you pimp it a bit more for CPU, or maybe if you train launcher rigging 5 (maybe I should have trained that awhile ago... Oops)

And here's the hyperion fit that kicks its ass for 1/2 the price--

[Hyperion, l4 cheap]
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Centus C-Type Large Armor Repairer
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Dark Blood Cap Recharger
Dark Blood Cap Recharger
Dark Blood Cap Recharger

425mm Railgun II, Javelin L
425mm Railgun II, Javelin L
425mm Railgun II, Javelin L
425mm Railgun II, Javelin L
425mm Railgun II, Javelin L
425mm Railgun II, Javelin L
425mm Railgun II, Javelin L
425mm Railgun II, Javelin L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Obviously swap hardeners as needed, if I were to pimp harder I'd get a better rep. It's not quite cap stable, but I'll be damned if it's not close, and in a bind you can always overheat. Most of the time you can 1-volley scram frigs before they get close, but the only times I've had to warp out are when I screwed up aggro. (In unrelated news, hot damn hull reps are slow...)
Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
#20 - 2012-04-02 17:00:28 UTC
Raven Ether wrote:
Well simply put, with the CNR (especially Tengu) you have to sit glued on your screen and manage shield boosters and targets.



There is no argument that the RS can afk missions, however if your tengu requires that much managing of shield boosting? you're either fitting incorrectly or underskilled, I can think of only 2-3 pockets in which I need to pay that much attention, and its not even the duration of the pocket, usually only the first 30 seconds to a minute. Managing targets in a tengu as well is kind of a joke, the only thing it targets "slow" is frigates.

Basically managing shield boosters/targets would apply more to the CNR than it ever would the tengu.

As I started however, I agree and would never argue if you're looking to afk, the RS is pretty idiot proof, though I'd probably use sentry drones, with the right riggings/modules of course. Not having maxed heavy drone skills or sentry drone skills I won't put much weight to arguing which is better other than what I've seen in EFT.
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