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New to EVE, and I'll tell you what attracted me to it,. HINT: it wasn't the spaceships.
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Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2012-03-21 04:03:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Nazzer Dawk wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
So your paying 15 dollars a month, almost entirely for a feature that is an extremely downgraded version of the sims?

You know, you can get the Sims 3 for like 10 dollars in some places now, and I'm sure you can mod it so it's all space themed, there might be an expansion for that but EA ***** them out every day so I don't keep track.

WiS was only meant to integrate EVE better with DUST. Speaking to someone represented by a face, is a lot easier to relate to than speaking to someone represented by a ship. In fact the old avatars were good enough, but would seem ridiculously out dated when compared to DUST or any game from the past 5 years for that matter. Development into WiS could of stopped at creating the current avatars and would be just fine for dealing with dustbunnies.

Plus WiS screwed me and my fellow lore enthusiast over big time. While capsuleers can exit their pods from time to time the experience was time consuming and rather excruciating. Most of the time if a capsuleer needed to speak with someone face to face they would be in an open pod but still hooked up to the entire thing. Like in this image from one of the chronicles

http://content.eveonline.com/www/chronicle/img/Xenocracy.jpg

Capsuleers would rarely need to do any personal walking around a station. Hell if you read the story, you can very well see that capsuleers DO NOT SCREW AROUND. Not only do they look like cold heartless intimidating machines, but they are cold heartless intimidating machines. People are going to be going to them but they go if they know what's good for them.

And this isn't some outdated piece of lore either. It was written around the time of the Tyrannis which was the planetary interaction update. Step 1 to DUST integration. At one point CCP apparently considered dust bunnies seeing us like that which I think would be A LOT cooler but no, now we are all dress up dolls indistinguishable from any other sci-fi game.



******* FINALLY. Someone talking about the integral merits of WiS instead of bitching about it somehow magically detracting from the experience.

Hey, I have a lot of appreciation for the Lore of any series. But I do want to say that lore doesn't have to be static. Would you be opposed to a WiS system if they were to advance the lore to include some kind of advancement in technology making the Pods easy to get out of?

And I've pointed out about 4 times now that I'm not playing Eve JUST for the avatars. The avatars were just the thing that made the game feel personal enough for me to get a personal connection with my character. I am playing Eve for the economic system and the awesome spaceships in the end. I just find it hard to get into RPGs unless my character feels like it actually exists in the universe.


I would be fine with WiS for the most part if CCP did indeed provide a logical explanation as to why pod pilots can now just unplug themselves from their pods like a USB, feel a little woozy for about a minute and then continue as they were like they were never in a pod. I'm thinking a good explanation for the recent pod technology advancement could be related to reversed engineered sleeper tech. I'm not saying that the sleepers had pods but maybe some scientist reversed engineered a sleeper microchip and figured out how to remove the need for all the tubes and cables that were once hooked up to capsuleers. IDK just some explanation to the sudden jump in capsule technology in just a few years.

And yeah, I can understand how that could work. My personal belief though is that if a new experience (that would make sense in the EVE universe of course) can be brought from WiS then it would be more worthwhile. For now it's nothing more than a slower and more complicated way of navigating menus.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2012-03-21 04:08:26 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Nazzer Dawk wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
So your paying 15 dollars a month, almost entirely for a feature that is an extremely downgraded version of the sims?

You know, you can get the Sims 3 for like 10 dollars in some places now, and I'm sure you can mod it so it's all space themed, there might be an expansion for that but EA ***** them out every day so I don't keep track.

WiS was only meant to integrate EVE better with DUST. Speaking to someone represented by a face, is a lot easier to relate to than speaking to someone represented by a ship. In fact the old avatars were good enough, but would seem ridiculously out dated when compared to DUST or any game from the past 5 years for that matter. Development into WiS could of stopped at creating the current avatars and would be just fine for dealing with dustbunnies.

Plus WiS screwed me and my fellow lore enthusiast over big time. While capsuleers can exit their pods from time to time the experience was time consuming and rather excruciating. Most of the time if a capsuleer needed to speak with someone face to face they would be in an open pod but still hooked up to the entire thing. Like in this image from one of the chronicles

http://content.eveonline.com/www/chronicle/img/Xenocracy.jpg

Capsuleers would rarely need to do any personal walking around a station. Hell if you read the story, you can very well see that capsuleers DO NOT SCREW AROUND. Not only do they look like cold heartless intimidating machines, but they are cold heartless intimidating machines. People are going to be going to them but they go if they know what's good for them.

And this isn't some outdated piece of lore either. It was written around the time of the Tyrannis which was the planetary interaction update. Step 1 to DUST integration. At one point CCP apparently considered dust bunnies seeing us like that which I think would be A LOT cooler but no, now we are all dress up dolls indistinguishable from any other sci-fi game.



******* FINALLY. Someone talking about the integral merits of WiS instead of bitching about it somehow magically detracting from the experience.

Hey, I have a lot of appreciation for the Lore of any series. But I do want to say that lore doesn't have to be static. Would you be opposed to a WiS system if they were to advance the lore to include some kind of advancement in technology making the Pods easy to get out of?

And I've pointed out about 4 times now that I'm not playing Eve JUST for the avatars. The avatars were just the thing that made the game feel personal enough for me to get a personal connection with my character. I am playing Eve for the economic system and the awesome spaceships in the end. I just find it hard to get into RPGs unless my character feels like it actually exists in the universe.


I would be fine with WiS for the most part if CCP did indeed provide a logical explanation as to why pod pilots can now just unplug themselves from their pods like a USB, feel a little woozy for about a minute and then continue as they were like they were never in a pod. I'm thinking a good explanation for the recent pod technology advancement could be related to reversed engineered sleeper tech. I'm not saying that the sleepers had pods but maybe some scientist reversed engineered a sleeper microchip and figured out how to remove the need for all the tubes and cables that were once hooked up to capsuleers. IDK just some explanation to the sudden jump in capsule technology in just a few years.

And yeah, I can understand how that could work. My personal belief though is that if a new experience (that would make sense in the EVE universe of course) can be brought from WiS then it would be more worthwhile. For now it's nothing more than a slower and more complicated way of navigating menus.

No, I completely agree. I am actually using the slower menus right now because I'm a sucker for avatar implementation, but it will always feel like an empty shell if there's no real content.

Reminds me of how Playstation HOME sounded pretty cool to start, but it feels so lifeless and like it's just a clunky way of messaging people and joining their games.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#63 - 2012-03-21 09:00:52 UTC
Oh, fresh meat!

Been a while since the last newb with illusions of grandeur, and that didn't even last a week before he or she ragequit so I do wonder how you will fare...?

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#64 - 2012-03-21 09:10:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
Captain's Quarters look real nice, I'll admit it. But they also get real old, real quick. Soon you'll just set it to ship-spinning mode to shave off the time it takes to load and to have easier access to all services.

It's in space where all the action happens (though admittedly some of it happens on the forums as well).

A well implemented WiS would be a great asset to EVE, but seeing how much resources CCP had to pour into realizing just a single unimpressive room for Incarna... well, let's just say there better things to work on for CCP.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Aethlyn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2012-03-21 09:50:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Aethlyn
Meryl SinGarda wrote:
The problem with walking around in your ship is that your avatar doesn't actually walk around in the ship "off-screen." You're in a POD filled with goo the entire time.

There'll be a new view when docked, making it a total three:

- Captain's Quarter - walk around as you know it.
- Hangar View - Spin your ship, wheee!
- Pod View - Spin yourself in your pod, goooooooooo!

:)

Tobiaz wrote:
A well implemented WiS would be a great asset to EVE, but seeing how much resources CCP had to pour into realizing just a single unimpressive room for Incarna... well, let's just say there better things to work on for CCP.

Don't forget the fact they didn't just have to model these rooms. They had to create the base tech to do it, etc. and I actually think further improvements can be made rather fast, once they've got the missing tech stuff done (e.g. multiplayer part of walking around; possibly NPCs and stuff).

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Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#66 - 2012-03-21 10:02:33 UTC
Meryl SinGarda wrote:
The problem with walking around in your ship is that your avatar doesn't actually walk around in the ship "off-screen." You're in a POD filled with goo the entire time.


Thats not correct, while you pilot your ship from you pod capsuleers often get out of their pods when they want to. This is offcourse entirely optional. Some interact with people, others don't. But there have been plenty of chronicles, stories and mentions in the books of just how much a capsuleer gets out of his pod, the answer being:

as much as he wants to. He can get out of his ship during flight, he can walk around and interact and get back in both in ship and in station.

I mostly agree with OP, the potential for additinal awesome gameplay is there, CCP needs to do the things they planned before they scuttled ambulation for Incarna and the NeX and make that station and the avatars a part of the game and sandbox. Nobody needs to do anything they don't want in EVE, but if they create meaningful game play and opportunities, people will go outside. Just like nobody needs to mine or go into wormholes or 0.0.

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#67 - 2012-03-21 10:14:08 UTC
Aethlyn wrote:
Meryl SinGarda wrote:
The problem with walking around in your ship is that your avatar doesn't actually walk around in the ship "off-screen." You're in a POD filled with goo the entire time.

There'll be a new view when docked, making it a total three:

- Captain's Quarter - walk around as you know it.
- Hangar View - Spin your ship, wheee!
- Pod View - Spin yourself in your pod, goooooooooo!

:)

Tobiaz wrote:
A well implemented WiS would be a great asset to EVE, but seeing how much resources CCP had to pour into realizing just a single unimpressive room for Incarna... well, let's just say there better things to work on for CCP.

Don't forget the fact they didn't just have to model these rooms. They had to create the base tech to do it, etc. and I actually think further improvements can be made rather fast, once they've got the missing tech stuff done (e.g. multiplayer part of walking around; possibly NPCs and stuff).


If making that room was so little work, why then took it so long to add the room of the other 3 races (on which they undoubtedly were already working before Incarna was implemented). I weep at what it would cost CCP to implement WiS to a degree that it would not totally sink the expectations.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Pheusia
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#68 - 2012-03-21 10:28:09 UTC
KrakizBad wrote:
I, too, enjoy signing up for games that don't have the gameplay I want so I can tell everyone on their forums how much better the game would be if they only changed it in a significant way that no one but me wants.


In fairness to the OP, CCP spent about a year hyping up how Incarna was going to transform EVE. he can be forgiven for assuming that they meant it.
ctx2007
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2012-03-21 10:41:08 UTC
ccp could have at least put a shower and toilet in the CQ so could at least clean myself up after the goo tank Blink

You only realise you life has been a waste of time, when you wake up dead.
Meryl SinGarda
Belligerent Underpaid Tactical Team
#70 - 2012-03-21 10:42:16 UTC
Nazzer Dawk wrote:
Borun Tal wrote:
Why do people get so excited about the possibility of walking in a station when it's a game about spaceships, combat, and space-stuff? I don't get it...

It's about the personal feeling that having a human there gives it. Without having an actual person in there, I'm just imagining one there. It's the "Toy spaceships in the backyard" feeling I mentioned.

Meryl SinGarda wrote:
The problem with walking around in your ship is that your avatar doesn't actually walk around in the ship "off-screen." You're in a POD filled with goo the entire time.


Hmm. I didn't know that. Well that changes my perspective of the ship thing then.

But the station still applies. I need to feel a connection with my character.


Oh, definitely. I'm all for walking around in stations, gambling, boozing, sneering and sticking my face against the glass, just so long as dev resources are allocated evenly to both space and stations.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#71 - 2012-03-21 10:45:06 UTC
I ended up watching ponies on my TVStraight
Blatant Forum Alt
Doomheim
#72 - 2012-03-21 11:18:21 UTC
Nazzer Dawk wrote:

Ai Shun wrote:

Nazzer Dawk wrote:
This is why I've been asking people to explain how WiS actually detracts from the experience, because from what I can see here and in that thread, they can't back it up.


This is why you need to understand the events around Incarna and the current situation for EVE, Walking in Stations and CCP. Until you do, you won't see why you are getting the comments you are getting.


Everything I've been hearing from them hinges on the assumption that pushing for this addition requires Eve's FiS game to suffer. Which is the impression I'm getting from that thread as well.


Dude, this is the Eve equivalent of walking into Ground Zero and announcing loudly that someone should build two skyscraper mosques there, and shouting at anyone who tuts or tells you to pipe down.

But yes, you are quite right, any development of space barbie WiS arsehattery by default will cause FiS - in other words, Eve - to suffer, as fewer resources will be used on tackling the huge list of broken and incomplete features that Eve is faced with.
Nazzer Dawk
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-03-21 14:11:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Nazzer Dawk
Blatant Forum Alt wrote:
Nazzer Dawk wrote:

Ai Shun wrote:

Nazzer Dawk wrote:
This is why I've been asking people to explain how WiS actually detracts from the experience, because from what I can see here and in that thread, they can't back it up.


This is why you need to understand the events around Incarna and the current situation for EVE, Walking in Stations and CCP. Until you do, you won't see why you are getting the comments you are getting.


Everything I've been hearing from them hinges on the assumption that pushing for this addition requires Eve's FiS game to suffer. Which is the impression I'm getting from that thread as well.


Dude, this is the Eve equivalent of walking into Ground Zero and announcing loudly that someone should build two skyscraper mosques there, and shouting at anyone who tuts or tells you to pipe down.

wut is this is dunt even???

Quote:


But yes, you are quite right, any development of space barbie WiS arsehattery by default will cause FiS - in other words, Eve - to suffer, as fewer resources will be used on tackling the huge list of broken and incomplete features that Eve is faced with.

Unless, and hear me out, they have a separate team working on WiS!

I said on the very first page that I only want this as long as it doesn't effect normal development. It's not my fault you couldn't read the first 15 posts of the thread.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#74 - 2012-03-21 14:17:25 UTC
Facts:

1) there is a team working on WiS, most importantly trying to come up with meaningful gameplay content for WiS

2) most people are fine with or without WiS

3) bittervets will bitter, no matter what happens and also if nothing happens at all

Welcome to EVE, btw :)

.
Sasha Khaine
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#75 - 2012-03-21 14:29:41 UTC
ctx2007 wrote:
ccp could have at least put a shower and toilet in the CQ so could at least clean myself up after the goo tank Blink


What do you think happens when you are loading the station environment! They can't show that stuff, there might be kids playing!

[center]"The entire British empire was built on cups of tea... and if you think I'm going to war without one mate. You're mistaken."[/center]
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#76 - 2012-03-21 14:41:35 UTC
WiS will never fly in this game until there is something relevant to the rest of the game you could do with it. Some suggested examples:

- Fleet ready room where a corp could assemble and see a live briefing from the top brass, complete with a whiteboard
- Gambling tables and other minigames
- Mindwarp, or whatever that eve lore game is called
- Drug dealing/smuggling...stuff that must occur off the market in some way
- Player run stores (seems a bit unlikely this one)

There's plenty of possibilities, but it really has to be something essential to expanding the current gameplay somehow.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#77 - 2012-03-21 14:43:14 UTC
These serious responses are HILARIOUS !

Did not ONE catch the tongue-in-cheek SARCASM of the OP ??

'Twas not a serious posting folks...........wow.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2012-03-21 14:52:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Vertisce Soritenshi
To the OP. A lot of people feel the same way you do. I wouldn't say the majority of EvE players "NEED" to have an avatar and walk in stations but the majority certainly want it. Unfortunately you have a very vocal minorty of players that think EvE is only about spaceships and don't think avatars are needed and this makes them "elite". They clearly only think they are important and don't give a **** what anybody else thinks.

CCP is fully aware that walking in stations will increase their subscriber base. It is also something they want to do to complete the full SciFi experience within EvE. Right now they are re-assessing plans for WiS to include things that make the gameplay relevant and fun instead of just walking around and waving to each other. Give them time and they will complete it for sure. It is on the backburner right now as CCP wishes to focus more on the core spaceship gameplay and fix a lot of stuff that has needed fixing for a very long time.

Blatant Forum Alt wrote:

But yes, you are quite right, any development of space barbie WiS arsehattery by default will cause FiS - in other words, Eve - to suffer, as fewer resources will be used on tackling the huge list of broken and incomplete features that Eve is faced with.


Not only is this statement ignorant but it is also completely false.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#79 - 2012-03-21 15:07:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
This is getting even FUNNIER with even more postings (FOUR pages so far) when the OP is NOT serious at all LolLolLol

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Fishmaskle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2012-03-21 16:13:25 UTC
Hmm. Like others have mentioned, the core tech to build CQ was sort of the starter template, but it was also modular so they can "easily(TM)" expand on it.... Someday. If they really did get WiS(Stations and Ships) it technically would be one of the best looking Avatar style experiences in an MMO to date (Though games like AION use the Crytek Engine, the overall look still doesn't make me go O.O at the detail, and the audio..... lets not go there)

The first thing I thought about back when WiS was announced, would be instation pub's and Poker Rooms. Not a lot required and a great way to just make it more social without it being a complete disconnect from the game.

Yadadatada...
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