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Dear CCP , regarding: web "exploit".
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Mr Blue
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#41 - 2012-03-20 16:27:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Blue
Dez Affinity wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
This is just ccp dumbing eve down another tiny notch.


Only way to counter it is to have an alt warp scramble you or jam the guy webbing you so you can cancel warp.

or just align before you press warp?
Rixiu
PonyTek
#42 - 2012-03-20 16:28:51 UTC
I thought the problem was that the warp couldn't be stopped.

1. Freighter/JF undocks from station.
2. Above clicks warp to something (gate for example).
3. 3x 90% webs are applied to the JF/Freighter
4. The JF/freighter now wont warp (for ages atleast) and is unable to cancel the warp and dock up because of "you cannot do that while in warp" since :mechanics: use the ships top speed to determine if a ship is in warp and the ship is moving in 100+ m/s.

Hence your ship will never warp and you cannot cancel warp to dock up which of course is to be considered an exploit.
Misunderstood Genius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2012-03-20 16:30:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Misunderstood Genius
Liang Nuren wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Where's the confusion?

If people are managing to use a webber (a module that in no way inhibits warping) in a way that makes it inhibit warping, then that is indeed the module not working as intended — a bug — and making use of such a bug is pretty much the most basic and fundamental definition of an “exploit”.


It is not a bug, and it is not an exploit. The GM simply did not understand game mechanics well enough to comment.

-Liang


Before you try to tell us that a GM and finally CCP don't understand their own mechanics let me teach you about the issue:

The Freighter undocks and initiates warp. Once you triple web the freighter the freighter can't stop warp and can't dock up. Finally the Freighter is stucked with initiated warp and the Freighter never will reach the speed to warp. Result: Freighter will die. Meanwhile the Freighter will be additionally bumped off undock range just to make it 200% sure.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#44 - 2012-03-20 16:32:45 UTC
Not sure why the OP compares this situation with bumping and regular webbing. It's clearly a different matter, as bumping was for the longest time (and is), a viable mechanic to stop people from warping. Webbing people has always been a way to help them warp faster. Both above have counters; while this new issue at hand is a glitch in a mechanic that function like a warp scrambler, even tho it's a web.

I think it's harsh by CCP to make it a bannable offense tho, it's clearly an existing mechanic that doesn't work as it should, but as it's a) obvious what happens and b) not very hard to counter (scout before undock), it just create unecessary fuss to try to purge people using it at present.

Should it be fixed/removed? Yeah, it's clear it's not intended. Bannable offense? No, that's tad excessive.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Jean McBean
Doomheim
#45 - 2012-03-20 16:33:09 UTC
Andski wrote:
bitters much wrote:
Andski wrote:
there is a huge, huge difference between webbing a JF entering warp and bumping supercaps


WTS:

246450 x Morphite
2995634 x Megacyte

Lol




WTS:

god knows how much technetium


would have been a semi-decent Joke if not to troll quite PL...

Thanks for the attempt tho
bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
#46 - 2012-03-20 16:34:31 UTC
Rixiu wrote:
I thought the problem was that the warp couldn't be stopped.

1. Freighter/JF undocks from station.
2. Above clicks warp to something (gate for example).
3. 3x 90% webs are applied to the JF/Freighter
4. The JF/freighter now wont warp (for ages atleast) and is unable to cancel the warp and dock up because of "you cannot do that while in warp" since :mechanics: use the ships top speed to determine if a ship is in warp and the ship is moving in 100+ m/s.

Hence your ship will never warp and you cannot cancel warp to dock up which of course is to be considered an exploit.



And the above was all fine and nice ( for years ) as long as it was abused to get your freighter faster into warp, now that some PVPers use it to blow you up its not anymore ?
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-03-20 16:36:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Muad 'dib
remember the bug is NOT BEING ABLE TO CANCEL WARP or being able to dock again

Not webs working too well, webs slow you down as they should, not stop people being able to cancel warp is a fully ccp derp!

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Honeyhole
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#48 - 2012-03-20 16:38:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Honeyhole
The ship must be at speed (like on undock) and unaligned before hitting warp. Hitting warp in this state will force an obscene length of time aligning and speeding up while 'warping'. If a player applies webs to the target, adjusting it's max-speed in relation to the web bonus and then bump the ship to a speed greater than its max speed, the ship will be stuck effectively trying to slow-down in order to warp.

Again, this is nothing new. It can happen to ANY ship in almost ANY circumstance and it has been petitioned many, many times over the years. I believe it last happened to me after I was webbed by a rapier in a vagabond after I had initiated warp where my inertia upon getting webbed carried my current speed much faster than my max-speed after getting webbed. I was stuck in warp and promptly died. Rapier pilot exploits, I guess?
Prince Kobol
#49 - 2012-03-20 16:38:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
bitters much wrote:
Rixiu wrote:
I thought the problem was that the warp couldn't be stopped.

1. Freighter/JF undocks from station.
2. Above clicks warp to something (gate for example).
3. 3x 90% webs are applied to the JF/Freighter
4. The JF/freighter now wont warp (for ages atleast) and is unable to cancel the warp and dock up because of "you cannot do that while in warp" since :mechanics: use the ships top speed to determine if a ship is in warp and the ship is moving in 100+ m/s.

Hence your ship will never warp and you cannot cancel warp to dock up which of course is to be considered an exploit.



And the above was all fine and nice ( for years ) as long as it was abused to get your freighter faster into warp, now that some PVPers use it to blow you up its not anymore ?



It isn't because the above method will not get your freighter to warp quicker, it does the opposite.

One question.. who did the JF belong too that was blown up with this method that caused CCP to define this as an exploit?
Xpaulusx
Naari LLC
#50 - 2012-03-20 16:39:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Xpaulusx
your Vindi's.......... give them too me.

......................................................
seany1212
M Y S T
#51 - 2012-03-20 16:40:11 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:
remember the bug is NOT BEING ABLE TO CANCEL WARP or being able to dock again

Not webs working too well, webs slow you dont and they do not being able to cancel warp is a fully ccp derp!


This, but CCP better not take it the wrong way, otherwise I wouldn't be surprised everything ending up with ******* no-clip X
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#52 - 2012-03-20 16:40:12 UTC
Goons have brought it to our attention that they lost a JF. This is now a clear exploit and by clear we mean you should somehow know that despite all the strange physics and things that happen in Eve Online, from supercapital bumping to Battleship propulsion mods on cruisers, this particular one will get you banned. The use of the word "clear" exonerates us from the fact that this bug has existed for years and never once have we acknowledged it until right now.. because you should have just known. To reiterate; everyone who has ever used it will be reviewed for banning and the Goon who just lost a 20bn isk JF an hour before we posted this will be reembursed. - Regards, CCCP Stalin
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Nirnias Stirrum
UberWTFBBQ and Battle Technologies
#53 - 2012-03-20 16:41:56 UTC
Wait so let me get this straight and see if im reading it correctly... Webbing a freighter/cap ship in order for it to get into warp faster is an exploit now? since when? this is commenly used by everyone.

Also does that mean frag warping (cloaking, then uncloaking and instawarping) is an exploit also?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-03-20 16:42:35 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Goons have brought it to our attention that they lost a JF. This is now a clear exploit and by clear we mean you should somehow know that despite all the strange physics and things that happen in Eve Online, from supercapital bumping to Battleship propulsion mods on cruisers, this particular one will get you banned. The use of the word "clear" exonerates us from the fact that this bug has existed for years and never once have we acknowledged it until right now.. because you should have just known. To reiterate; everyone who has ever used it will be reviewed for banning and the Goon who just lost a 20bn isk JF an hour before we posted this will be reembursed. - Regards, CCCP Stalin


the ignorant paste-eating incursion runner got it right folks

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
#55 - 2012-03-20 16:42:46 UTC
I'm worried about the following:

This is a clear exploit and anyone found abusing this will be dealt with accordingly.

Can an exploit which by definition is an abuse, be abused?

Back to the cave to ponder on this

I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#56 - 2012-03-20 16:42:57 UTC
Xpaulusx wrote:
your Vindi's.......... give them too me.


I'll buy your Vindi's for 1 trit Lol
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
#57 - 2012-03-20 16:43:00 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
bitters much wrote:
Rixiu wrote:
I thought the problem was that the warp couldn't be stopped.

1. Freighter/JF undocks from station.
2. Above clicks warp to something (gate for example).
3. 3x 90% webs are applied to the JF/Freighter
4. The JF/freighter now wont warp (for ages atleast) and is unable to cancel the warp and dock up because of "you cannot do that while in warp" since :mechanics: use the ships top speed to determine if a ship is in warp and the ship is moving in 100+ m/s.

Hence your ship will never warp and you cannot cancel warp to dock up which of course is to be considered an exploit.



And the above was all fine and nice ( for years ) as long as it was abused to get your freighter faster into warp, now that some PVPers use it to blow you up its not anymore ?



It isn't because the above method will not get your freighter to warp quicker, it does the opposite.

One question.. who did the JF belong too that was blown up with this method that caused CCP to define this as an exploit?


Just because you use now 3 instead of 1 or 2 webs doesnt make it an exploit.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#58 - 2012-03-20 16:44:16 UTC
Misanth wrote:
Not sure why the OP compares this situation with bumping and regular webbing. It's clearly a different matter, as bumping was for the longest time (and is), a viable mechanic to stop people from warping. Webbing people has always been a way to help them warp faster. Both above have counters; while this new issue at hand is a glitch in a mechanic that function like a warp scrambler, even tho it's a web.

I think it's harsh by CCP to make it a bannable offense tho, it's clearly an existing mechanic that doesn't work as it should, but as it's a) obvious what happens and b) not very hard to counter (scout before undock), it just create unecessary fuss to try to purge people using it at present.

Should it be fixed/removed? Yeah, it's clear it's not intended. Bannable offense? No, that's tad excessive.


Webbing has also long been a way to make people take longer to get into warp. Its very noticeable when you fly something like a Vaga or nano Ishtar and you get hammered by the old 90% webs. You simply don't warp anytime soon. Furthermore, webbing people to keep them out of the undock radius of the station is a critical part of game mechanics.

The way things stand, they've declared webbing people (under any circumstances) an exploit.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#59 - 2012-03-20 16:45:18 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
The way things stand, they've declared webbing people (under any circumstances) an exploit.


clearly

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
seany1212
M Y S T
#60 - 2012-03-20 16:46:05 UTC
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:
Wait so let me get this straight and see if im reading it correctly... Webbing a freighter/cap ship in order for it to get into warp faster is an exploit now? since when? this is commenly used by everyone.

Also does that mean frag warping (cloaking, then uncloaking and instawarping) is an exploit also?


No, what happens is a station kicks out a freighter/JF faster than the speed the freighter is able to naturally fly at, aggressor then webs said freighter/JF so much that due to the ships terrible inertia takes a ******** amount of time to decelerate from the over speed and align to warp while being unable to stop warp or dock.

From what I gather anyway... Lol