Crime & Punishment

My impression is that the Tornado is actually underutilized by most of the ganking community.

"Tempest volley on a Battlecruiser hull!" ,was the cry, as gankers calculated the cost savings of the smaller hull and sized up their Orca Maintenance Bays. And yes, that 12-13K volley at 30-40km is impressive. But with slow 1400MM reload times, (around 13-14 seconds) most figure it is good for only one or two shots.....

But most have missed something important. That Battlecruiser hull is Minmatar - and Minmatar are known for something other than volley, speed and duct tape: AGILITY!

Most gankers kill their targets, then sit there and wait for inevitable death. This is a mistake.

With skills, an agility hardwire, a fleet boosts and cheap rigs, you can get the Tornado into warp in 3.9 seconds.
USE THAT ABILITY. CCP's policy of "You must lose your ship to Concord" doesn't mean you have to meekly wait for it. You spent 50M on that Tornado hull - get your moneys worth!

Once safely in warp (en route to another target or a SS) - your guns are reloaded for ANOTHER 13K long range volley....and another...and another, for as long as you can find targets and stay ahead of Concord.

Combine a 13K 'front-loaded' volley with a 3.9 second warp - you can be in and out in 7 seconds. Its a machine that can tear a bloody hole into icebotter ranks and depopulate belts in very short order. Not quite as ISK-efficiently as with Catalyst mobs, but FAR more time-efficiently -killing multiple Exhumers - per 15 minute GCC.

My Tornado Fit: "Wild Ass Mother"

8x T2 1400MM Heavy Artillery + RF PP ammo
3x T2 Tracking Comp II + Tracking Script
2x Sensor Booster II + Scan Res Script
4x Gyrostabilizer II

3x Low Friction Nozzle Joints I

Implants I use:
5% Fitting: Allows you to fit the 4th Gyrostab II.
5% Agility: Get into warp faster!
5% Large Proj Damage = more volley
5% Turret Damage = more volley

Why it works:

T2 Howitzers/Gyros: with the proper hardwires and skills mean you can deal a 13.5K Volley.
These guns are not cheap (4M each), however T2 gives you the ability to split your guns into two 4x groups - with each group instapopping a Mackinaw. Also, split them 4 ways and you can kill 4 Retrievers or nail some pods....but Exhumers are the prime target. Half of the guns will survive the explosion for reuse - more if you UNFIT them into an Orca before death.

3x TCs/2x SEBOs
I've come to the conclusion that this is the correct mix for the mid-slots.

On Tracking Computers - in this context are essentially damage mods - as they increase the chance of high quality hits that give you a 25-50% damage bonus. They are especially important to reduce the negative transversal effect your warp-landing often has on firing. A Target Painter MAY be slightly more useful than TC #3, however it can only be used on one target at a time, and must be fired BEFORE the guns - while TC's have a global effect and remain on while in warp.

3x Low Friction Nozzle Joints I

What? Rigging a suicide ganking ship? Trust me, these are the sauce. The faster you can warp out, the longer you delay Concord death - which multiplies the number of volleys you get and targets you kill.

They are cheap, costing only 500K each. For 1.5 Million ISK you can cut your warp-time by 1.5 seconds. Combine them with:

-Evasive Maneuvering/Space Ship Command at V,
-Level V Skirmish Gangboost Orca (only the skills help, not the ganglinks)
-5% Agility Hardwire

You are now fast enough to warp and fire 3 times in 0.7 security space, and more in lower security situations. When you witness your Tornado light up 2 Mackinaws, turn 180 degrees on a dime - and get into warp before Concord has even left the donut shop, you'll thank me.

A side-benefit: This also makes it incredibly difficult for 'white knights' to interfere, as the Tornado is there and gone in 7-8 seconds. A 40km practical engagement range + cloaked scouts mean they have no idea where you are going to appear and cannot stop you (though they'll try...)

My ideal ice belt hunting procedure:

-I take a page from Goonswarm and stage a small, cheap POS in the system. This gives you a safe place to board ships and frustrates the hell out of random 'white knights' who try to scan your outlaw capsule. It also allows you to use your Orca as a scout ship. Just remember that a non-corp member must re-enter the password if changing systems or docking up.

-Place cloaked scouts in the belt at least 150km away from each other within the same ice belt. (Generally, one at the top of the belt and one on the bottom) For warp-in points, I tend to use a cloaked Orca and Rapier pair. Both are equipped to passively scan targets. Rapier is for quickly salvaging and looting, also equipped to lock down and kill random can flippers.
Orca is for scooping ice and, most importantly - unfitting T2 Howitzers into it if the Tornado happens to be 'caught' next to it. Sometimes the Orca is staged at a safe-spot, if placing it in the belt is not necessary or desirable for some reason.

-I feel the fastest and easiest way to get into warp under pressure is use "Warp to Member" fleet window, rather than bookmarks or pulldown windows.

-Goonswarm 'Clearing' Concord technique is useful - but not strictly necessary. If a Concord swarm is located in the bottom of the ice belt, you simply launch your FIRST attack at least 150km away, say, at the top of the belt. Then 'warp-to' the bottom of the belt. Concord will chase you like a puppy-dog, but will never be in the right place at the right time, as you bounce back and forth - setting multiple Mackinaws or Hulks alight.

-The 15 GCC countdown isn't all that inconvenient, as it takes a few minutes to salvage and loot, move a new Tornado into position, and get your scouts into position before the next strike.

Continued...

I sense a nerf. I'm betting four days. I'll put 100m on it. Any takers?

Wilk, excellent work being the cleverest dude. Too bad clever dudes aren't rewarded for their cleverness in this game.

Well, ganking miners is what I do. My profession. Would hardly be a profession if I had to lose money doing it.

Yes, when it comes to ganking - or any kind of 'high-sec non-consensual' aggression....
I think that most of TEARS agrees with me when I say that CCP collectively has been a tremendous group of carebear nutsak hugging toggafs.

However, most of this stuff I figured out in December within a few weeks of the Tornado's release. And I've explained it to anyone who wanted to know.

Its not exactly a 'secret' - I'm sure a few others have figured it out. Goonswarm has posted video of warping around with groups of destroyers doing exactly the same thing. Further, anybody watching you do this (ie bounce around an ice belt like a wrecking ball...killing miners all the way) will probably figure out what is going on, eventually.

Still, based on previous discussions on the forums, there seemed to be a certain confusion about how to use the Tornado optimally, how to cycle the guns - rather than just take one shot, kill one target, and die. This misconception seems to be pushing people into ganking with Catalysts, rather than Tornados.

And I want to see this tactic more widely applied - I want to see miners BURN, not just in Gallente space, but everywhere. I can only do so much solo.

Of course, Cats have their role as well, as does the Talos.

Myself, I use a mixture.
- Solo T2 700 DPS Cats for lone targets that don't warrant a Tornado strike
- T2 Tornados for full belts of widely spaced botters and miners.
- T1 Typhoons for clumps of badly tanked Macks/Hulks.
- T2 Talos for hard targets.
- T1 Thrashers for pods (though recent nerfs have made a 'quick follow up strike' on an AFK miner impossible - can't board a Thrasher while GCC....)

As far as a CCP nerf goes...I don't know.

This will kind of be a test case for me as I don't consider it to be an exploit, or even remotely requiring a nerf/Concord buff.
Doesn't take advantage of a flaw in the game mechanics, or a 'hole' in the programming.
It merely takes advantage of a unique convergence of Tornado abilities. Agility + instantaneous volley + Orca portable.
That convergence just happens to turn ganking Exhumers from an unprofitable chore into a profitable, entertaining one.

Where is it written that killing miners needs to be done at a loss?

But if you are right and we see yet ANOTHER stealth nerf / mechanic change....well, I suppose that will settle the argument in my mind. It will be a safe bet that sweeping changes to ganking mechanics are coming in the near future that will make most of this superfluous.

This is pretty clever and takes quite a bit of work to do. Don't try this while solo, kids!

I remember trying this with a tempest before the nano nerf when BS could warp like inties. My guns kept missing because I was always aligning the wrong way and I didn't have an alt so I was just warping to random belts and gates (ogod gate guns) and I don't think I killed anything but it was hilarious.

You beat me to it.

I was thinking "in before the nerf".

100% certain that this will be nerfed. CCP doesn't like when people escape Concord after a gank. Yes, you die eventually but if you can chain multiple warps and kills before that, it isn't "kosher" by the space bushido code. You suicide gank, you are supposed to go boom. At best you might get off two or three volleys depending on system sec status.

Nice job creatively abusing the game mechanics, but it does qualify as abuse.

So - now simply 'warping off' after attacking a ship in highsec is 'an exploit' in carebear world? Why, because you don't like it?

There is no 'unspoken' rule that you can only kill 1 ship per GCC. Typhoon SB attacks would have disappeared long ago.

As far as I'm concerned, the insurance nerf 'balanced' this tactic already. After all, you lose a 50M hull! It needs to do something special that a 1M ISK Catalyst can't. This tactic is it.

Anyway, I'd like to see if others can come up with refinements and further improve the success rate and kill ratio.

For Skunkworks 'Crime Spree' event:

I will be offering a 500M prize for the pilot who can put together the longest string of Exhumer kills with a single Tornado.

I want to see what others are capable of doing. I theorize the maximum is 8 poorly tanked Mackinaws in 0.5 space, but I could be wrong, could be more, could be less. I've not yet taken a field trip to Nakugard to give this a test. Most of the 0.5 Ice belts in Gallente space tend to be lightly populated....

Greed? what are you on about??
That lead to ganking?
Staying in covetors will not lead to ganking?

You must be high or something.

Miners are mining for isk. I'm sure its a shock to everyone, but that is the cold harsh truth.
Making as much money as you can in the time you mine (excluding botters) is just as important, if not more, than surviving ganking.
Some prefer to sacrifice survivability for more income, some prefer to survive in a harsh area over losing their ship.

How many times have you been ganked, or attempted?
Once a month? Twice?
Its more like a once every six months in a more remote quiet place, if ever. In that time you can make billions by fitting to mining over tanking.

Mining without a tank and afk in a traveled area is one thing, and I'm not saying go for it, but I'm just saying that calculating income vs risk, 90% of the time, the risk is worth it.
A full ops of miners all fitted to max mining with no tank, will easily make all that isk blown back within a few days. So I don't see the point of this.
Ice mining afk with no tank is stupid, but if you put you head in the numbers instead of your as... I mean guns, you will see the simple reasons of that risk.

And just Because this forum is more about tears and less about math:
A fully mining hulk will do about 4mil isk an hour over a tanked one (or more, depends on skills and what he mines, perfect will make it 5.5mil)
If mining 1 hour a day, that means 120mil isk a month extra.
Most miners will do of course more. More into 50 to 60 a month give or take.
That means that even if you gank them once a month, they can buy a new hulk, fit it, and still come ahead.

Get it?

Botting ice, you are welcome to report or blow up, but what you blow up they are making over a day or two per ship, so you really not screwing their income as much as you think.

to the OP
Grats on ingenuity and perseverance in turning ganking into an art form.
Your post has made me respect an alliance I have literally LOATHED for years.

As a hardcore rock shooter/ice cube provider, I would stand and applaud if one of my Hulks fell to this tactic...
I would of course require some sort of smack talk in local...

The sandbox at its finest... Tactic then counter tactic... If only more forum whiners would activate those invul fields before the tornadoes showed up...

P.S. I hope your graphics card overheats under the stress of my pretty explosions... I'll keep feeding you Hulks till it melts down...