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Hybrids still need more love? [PvE]
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Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-03-19 22:55:46 UTC
You also have to remember that any changes to Hybrids along the lines of selectable damage types would also affect blasters just as much as rails.

Blasters do stupid damage in their optimal and if you gave them the ability to select damage type, they would be so overpowered as to be not funny.
Kasutra
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#22 - 2012-03-19 23:03:26 UTC
Your guns aren't dealing the wrong damage type, you're shooting at the wrong kind of rat.

A PvE guy training hybrids is specializing in shooting Serpentis and Guristas. A PvE guy training lasers is specializing in shooting Sanshas and Blood Raiders.

Yeah, it sucks when alliance demands (in your case: let's move to Sansha space!) mean you can't fully utilize your specialized skills. But it happens. All the time.
OfBalance
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-03-19 23:13:24 UTC
Azemar wrote:
Exactly! That brings me back to my original point about turrets vs missiles.


Which we have already torn to shreds.

Come up with new bad ideas for us to pick apart, don't keep asking us to repeat the same evaluation.
Dyniss
KarmaFleet University
#24 - 2012-03-20 04:01:58 UTC
Hybrids are still viable against sansha and blood raiders as hybrids second dmg type is thermal and t2 ammo does a lot of thermal pretty much equal to kinetic so hybrids IMO are right up there with projectile almost in terms of dmg against pve targets. With the current changes to hybrids blasters are more perfered over rails in pve. With only a few tracking computers or ehancers you can easily shoot out to 60km with blasters heck some times I have insta popped frigs at 70+ with null although this is very rare
Dyniss
KarmaFleet University
#25 - 2012-03-20 04:06:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Dyniss
And if I my alt with tracking links I have 0.1 tracking with 2 tracking links coming from a noctis and that same noctis has enough cap to run a large shield transfer 4 tractors plus 3 salvagers stable! This is a amazing pve combo a navy domi and my alt in a noctis
Aaron Greil
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2012-03-20 04:16:19 UTC
I think damage type of hybrids is fine. Across all four races and all five pirate factions, thermal is, on average (I know there are some exceptions) the lowest resistance type. So shooting thermal is okay. That is a plus for hybrids. Lasers also gain this benefit, but it is less so, because EM is their primary damage type.

That said, I do think that rails need their role fixed. I love the idea of rails being the best snipers, but the Maelstrom blows the Rokh out of the water as a sniper. So here is what I propose, not that anyone will pay attention:

Switch the damage multiplier and ROF of artillery and rails, but keep the tracking, falloff, and optimal the same. This will make rail boats powerful snipers with the high alpha.

Personally, I would buff the damage of rails in particular a little more to compensate for caldari ships lack of damage bonuses, beyond the change above. In turn arties would need a little love, but I think the change would go a long way for caldari pilots, fill the attempted niche as sniper boats, and take at least one FOTM away from winmatar.
Dyniss
KarmaFleet University
#27 - 2012-03-20 04:28:47 UTC
The only thing sniping ships need is the ability to lock past 249km heck 300km can't be to hard to ask you're still on grid out to what? 500-600km? Snipers should be able to lock to at least half that distance
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#28 - 2012-03-20 04:55:01 UTC
Yet another reason why crosstraining is beneficial. Cool

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#29 - 2012-03-20 08:36:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Crellion
Liang Nuren wrote:
Azemar wrote:

And yes i could go Domi and get EM sentry drones and all EM drones and probably make it better for myself, but why should i be forced into that when it's such a simple balance change?


Perhaps it might because its not that simple of a balance change. Damage type selection is the exception rather than the rule, and I'd call that a good thing.

-Liang


Well it's sits at 50% now so not really an exception, over 50% if you count drones as a weapon syste. Let's call it the new rules with lasers and hybrids the necessary exception to fortify the rule.

As to OP It is very difficult to change hybrids for PvE and not affect PvP... Damage selection options on blasterships would become Fotm.

A possible improvement might* be useful if you agreed that Kronos is a PvE ship (or The PvE ship) for gallente and you changed it's web bonus (perhaps) for a 10% fal off per level. That might* assist the Gallente PvE roster without affecting PvP...

Another possible fix for Gallente pvp would be drone damage mods but this, even more than adding dmage selection to hybrids, would run a coach and horses through PvP balance... though it would only really harm Caldari...

Yeah ... all in all Kronos fall off bonus is the only one I see as viable... and even that is questionable because people might prefer keeping the web bonus...
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#30 - 2012-03-20 08:48:10 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Yet another reason why crosstraining is beneficial. Cool


Don't tempt me. There is nothing in this thread suggesting that 2 races ANY TWO RACES are not enough to pve anywhere you like... so it is an argument against what was said by you in another thread which is out of topic and let's keep it out of this thread.
Keilateau Shakor
Shakor Freight and Mining Service
#31 - 2012-03-20 12:44:14 UTC
The clever one enjoys the variety of tools and knows which to use for what job.
Crellion
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#32 - 2012-03-20 13:59:49 UTC
Keilateau Shakor wrote:
The clever one enjoys the variety of tools and knows which to use for what job.


Aye and the clever one who already has two screwdrivers then buys a wrench instead of a third screwdriver... or he is a not so clever, clever one.
Azemar
Voidhounds
Pretenders
#33 - 2012-03-20 17:51:01 UTC
Hahah let me iterate that i never said cross training wasn't an option. Of course it is, and i'm not some giant gallente fanboi that wants everything to be destroyed by gallente.

But just saying "cross train" isn't contributing much. To get to the same level of where my hybrids are with lasers and amarr spaceship bonuses would take about 3 months. I don't exactly want to do that just to get the most efficipent ship.

But in hindsight and being objective i do agree. If there was two damage types you want across all platforms, it is Thermal/Kinetic.

Switching to T2 will also be beneficial, since Antimatter has more kinetic damage, and Javelin has more Thermal. Thanks for the tips. (Although Javelin is a bajillion times more expensive, but that's a different matter all together)
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-03-20 19:30:47 UTC
Dyniss wrote:
The only thing sniping ships need is the ability to lock past 249km heck 300km can't be to hard to ask you're still on grid out to what? 500-600km? Snipers should be able to lock to at least half that distance


Two things:

1) 250km hard lock wasn't always in the game. It did used to be further. CCP changed it ~2006 and I've forgotton why, they did explain it in a dev blog though if you want to go digging.

2) The thing that would help sniper fleets is increasing the minimum warp distance to 200+ or killing on grid probing. Lock range isn't an issue as damage at that range is anemic.
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