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Why can't I train skills on more than one character?
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Riddikk Imahara
Ovistavin Enterprises
#1 - 2011-09-10 03:48:30 UTC
Seriously..... What if a person wants to jump into a completely different persona or something? I mean, I think we pay enough for a subscription to be able to run at least more than one. It's not like there's the option to run a million characters (that I know of) like all the other MMO's out there. So what is the logic behind this? Some one please explain it to me What? I can't be the first person to post about this, but can't seem to find another post on it.
Jacob Stiller
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-09-10 03:57:10 UTC
To force you to purchase more subscriptions. Or consume more PLEX.
Zombie Jeebus
Alt Holdings llc
#3 - 2011-09-10 04:17:56 UTC
You can train skills on more than one character, just one at a time. If you want to train skills on a second/third character on an account, you just pause the training on one, and then start it on another. Most people don't like to split their training like this though, which leads to the proliferation of alt accounts....
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#4 - 2011-09-10 04:27:14 UTC
Riddikk Imahara wrote:
I mean, I think we pay enough for a subscription to be able to run at least more than one. It's not like there's the option to run a million characters (that I know of) like all the other MMO's out there.


First, this falls under "rules of the game". It's really simple, just like in monopoly where only one person can own a property, or poker where there are only four aces in the deck.

Global Agenda allows four characters for free. You can only gain XP by actively playing the character. World of Warcraft allows 8 (or is it 10 these days) characters on each server. You can only gain XP by actively playing the character.

EVE Online allows three characters for free. You can only gain SP by selecting to train skills on one character at a time.

In those other games, each character is limited to one type of game play. There are no such limits in EVE. You aren't limited to being cleric or thief. You create a capsuleer. If you want to play healer, you fly a logistics ship (such as an Osprey, Basilisk, or Logi-Domi). If you want to play rogue you fly a cloaky recon (Arazu, Falcon, Pilgrim or Rapier). You don't need to train more than one character in order to be able to play all aspects of the game.

Should you on the other hand wish to train the other two character slots, you have to make a decision to forego training on the "main" character.

Welcome to EVE, a game of decisions and consequences.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Riddikk Imahara
Ovistavin Enterprises
#5 - 2011-09-10 06:33:58 UTC
No, you may not need to train more than one character to play all aspects of the game, but there are obvious paths that one can go down and specialize in this game and to be able to train more than one character would definitely make it much easier to fully experience each aspect of the game. I will give it to them that they allow training while not actively playing, but if they are going to operate under that system why not stick to it all the way? When you start at the beginning of this game you really start at rock bottom in relation to the shear dynamic of how large the game is. One ought to be able to start up a character for each race and take all 4 characters down different paths simultaneously. There would never be a dull moment! And if a person was smart about it they would be able to see a great deal more of the game by taking their characters in different directions. Their "rules of the game" seem a little illogical to me.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-09-10 08:12:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
No. EVE is not a game about every person being a know-it-all and "experiencing" every part of the game on their own. EVE is about teamwork, coordination, and a group of people filling each other's weak spots.

If you want to advance through two training paths simultaneously, feel free to purchase a second account.
Aldan Romar
Doomheim
#7 - 2011-09-10 08:56:07 UTC
Riddikk Imahara wrote:
... One ought to be able to start up a character for each race and take all 4 characters down different paths simultaneously. ... Their "rules of the game" seem a little illogical to me.
As has been explained you can - just get more subscriptions. Corporate policy is you have to pay for each training queue. It's not "rules of the game", it's a business model. Debatable perhaps, but being able to improve more than one character simultaneously should be worth it.

Apart from that, starting race has nothing to do with what you can do - many people cross train ships and weapon systems. Others like to "outsource" secondary occupations like industry alts and trade alts.
Dracoliche
Fried Plantains
#8 - 2011-09-10 10:11:56 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Global Agenda allows four characters for free. You can only gain XP by actively playing the character. World of Warcraft allows 8 (or is it 10 these days) characters on each server. You can only gain XP by actively playing the character.

EVE Online allows three characters for free. You can only gain SP by selecting to train skills on one character at a time.


^ This. Also, training for sale chars would be that much easier.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#9 - 2011-09-10 11:18:27 UTC
Riddikk Imahara wrote:
… there are obvious paths that one can go down and specialize in this game and to be able to train more than one character would definitely make it much easier to fully experience each aspect of the game.


If you really want to fully experience each aspect of the game through multiple characters, you could try multiple accounts, buying a character that someone else is selling, or tagging along with a friend who is proficient at the aspect you wish to explore.

Riddikk Imahara wrote:
One ought to be able to start up a character for each race and take all 4 characters down different paths simultaneously


Why? When will you have time to play them all?

Riddikk Imahara wrote:
Their "rules of the game" seem a little illogical to me.


The rules are intended to encourage people to either make friends or make friends. It's as simple as that. CCP didn't have a vision of thousands of players quietly playing Elite by themselves. They envisaged a harsh, cold universe of interdependent and competing capsuleers engaged in a world of capitalism and piracy, where every decision you make will have some consequence on your destiny and indeed the fate of the virtual universe.

Pandering to everyones desire for instant gratification is not the way to invoke the "harsh, cold" atmosphere.

These restrictions are in place to make this game what it is, just like you can't play two pieces on the monopoly board or bring extra cards to the poker game. Of course, if you wish you can buy an extra seat at the poker game and play two hands at once.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Riddikk Imahara
Ovistavin Enterprises
#10 - 2011-09-10 17:34:01 UTC
Interesting.... the general consensus here seems to be a rather hardcore viewpoint. Which, is surprising considering the lack of interest in character immersion and creating alternate persona's. I would agree that their business practice of forcing you to own more than one account, although rather clever, is questionable. I must admit I am quite surprised by the responses I've gotten so far. With the amount of time it takes to train up a single set of skills, one would have plenty of time to run more than one character at once if given the opportunity. Does the logic I'm proposing here really seem so off color?
Ardolfe
Doomheim
#11 - 2011-09-10 17:42:02 UTC
itt veterans roll over for exploitative business practices
Gregor Palter
#12 - 2011-09-10 17:51:01 UTC
Riddikk Imahara wrote:
Interesting.... the general consensus here seems to be a rather hardcore viewpoint. Which, is surprising considering the lack of interest in character immersion and creating alternate persona's. I would agree that their business practice of forcing you to own more than one account, although rather clever, is questionable. I must admit I am quite surprised by the responses I've gotten so far. With the amount of time it takes to train up a single set of skills, one would have plenty of time to run more than one character at once if given the opportunity. Does the logic I'm proposing here really seem so off color?


The thing you have to realise that, percentage wise compared to other MMOs, lots of EVE players have the "work for it" approach, rather than the "I'm a 5 yearold and I want everything easy and for free" idea. And as others stated, in EVE there are no classes so you don't HAVE to anyway, technically.

the debate of allowing a 2nd char to be trained for additional payment is a difficult one, there's pros and cons for both stances on it. Character sales would plummet I'd suspect, a percentage of people who use a full second account atm might rethink it as well. Thing is that allowing for it creates a whole lot of unknowns where it's really difficult to predict what the eventual result will be. I hope CCP is smart enough to realise that this might very well be Pandora's box, and not touch it.

Excuses are the refuge of the weak.

Ardolfe
Doomheim
#13 - 2011-09-10 18:01:14 UTC
yeah!

if you think paying for something entitles you to any sort of ENJOYMENT, go back to wow, carebear 5 year old!
Flakey Foont
#14 - 2011-09-10 18:03:33 UTC
It is the way EVE is.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#15 - 2011-09-10 18:17:36 UTC
Also cause not many other games allow you to progress two characters at once.

Yes you can work on both characters in other games but not simultaneously, while you work on one character, the other one is logged off not doing anything...same logic in EVE. You can switch from one char to the other and start working on just that char and same goes for EVE's skills

The Drake is a Lie
Slade Trillgon
Brutor Force Federated
#16 - 2011-09-10 18:43:54 UTC
That is the way CCP created it and how many of CCP's old and current player base preferred it for many of the reasons pointed out above.

I have hypothesized that, in the near future, CCP may open up the option to train more then on slot per account, for extra cash money that is.

That being said, for those that use alts, many of the special purpose alts do not really take that much extra time to train so that can be done without gimping your main too much. Or, if you do things the way you should, by the time you really know how to use the first slot properly, you could probably afford to buy a character that fits your current taste to throw into one of the empty slots.

If you are truly new and not an alt stirring up the pot, get out there and play with the skills you choose to train at this time and meet some other pod pilots that are into other things you may or may not be interested in the future. This is an MMOG; take advantage of it.


Slade
Avon
#17 - 2011-09-10 19:21:44 UTC
Ardolfe wrote:
itt veterans roll over for exploitative business practices


In games like WoW you can progress one character at a time by playing that character.
In Eve you can progress one character at a time whether you play it or not.

I know which works better for me.
Demon Azrakel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2011-09-10 21:16:49 UTC
Ardolfe wrote:
yeah!

if you think paying for something entitles you to any sort of ENJOYMENT, go back to wow, carebear 5 year old!


So you need 4 characters training for enjoyment?

(Posting with one of my 5 characters currently in training)

I don't actually mind people training more than one character per account at a time, as long as it is an extra plex / $15 dollars a month it costs them.Twisted

Either way, this is not a solo game and you should need to rely on other players.
Raendel
#19 - 2011-09-11 00:25:40 UTC
Quote:
Either way, this is not a solo game and you should need to rely on other players.


Speaking as an independent person, i really enjoy this little thing called "autonomy".

For instance, take mining.

Mining barges have crazy small cargo-holds considering their role. In order to effectively mine, you need a hauler. If I have someone haul for me, I'm limited by

1) Their trustworthiness (big deal on Eve)
2) How long they feel like hauling for

Assuming I can trust them, I'm limited by their preferences. Maybe they have dinner soon and have to go. Depending on other people for this lowers my efficiency. It also lowers my profit margin, as they will likely want to be paid as well.

If I join a Corp, I'm not only limited by those two factors, but also by Corp requirements (what they require from you as a player, if they're at war, etc).

In the early stages I much prefer to go it alone, and for this purpose training a couple of alts is the best choice to increase enjoyment and autonomy in the game. In the later stages, like for WH-farming or mining null-sec, then yes, Corps are useful.

Basically, "teamwork" is a heavy burden and very taxing unless you're in a good team.

Only two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, although I'm not sure about the universe. - Albert Einstein
Jacob Stiller
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2011-09-11 00:31:13 UTC
Comparing WoW and EvE in regards to progression of multiple toons is like comparing apples and oranges. In WoW, you roll a new toon to try a different playstyle or to play on a different server. In EvE, you roll multiple toons to play multiple people. Which includes being in several places at once and having multiple reputations.

Well that's the elegent way to put it. It gets somewhat messier when you acknowledge its sometimes desirable to buy multiple accounts to grow specialized characters in order to partially bypass the skill progression system.
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