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never done incursions before - help me pick a ship
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Wingmate
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-03-19 13:58:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Wingmate
so i've decided that i am interested in trying out incursions a bit, and i had a few questions about them. i've done just about all other forms of PVE in the game, including wormholes and other high-level content, so i figured it's about time i check out the cash cow. after all, isk is nice, isn't it?

here's my question: what should i use to start out? i don't want to fit out some absurd mach fit and then lose it on the first try because i didn't know exactly what to do the whole time.

i've got logi IV with remote everything at IV (can do a basi or onieros, but can't use t2 reppers), and i've got perfect gunnery supports and t2 spec 4 larges in lasers and artillery (and t2 medium everything) with an almost perfect shield AND armor tank, command ships IV, amarr BS V and other BS IV. didn't bother trainng marauders. so i've got a lot of flexibility in terms of what i could theoretically fly. i've got good legion skills - IVs and Vs in the subs, IV for the ships - but i don't own one at the moment and would only buy one if i knew that i could definitely use it right away in incursions.

do people in cheaper fits with good skills still get into fleets? i've heard that the biggest issue is just getting enough people in the fleet to leave, or that most fleets require you to use the exact fit they post which winds up being stupid expensive. is there a type of fleet - shield or armor - that gets more people or that's easier to get into?

if it were up to me, i'd either buy a legion and fly that for smaller sites, fly my apoc navy for bigger sites and fit it buffer and damage, and save up for a nightmare (eventually) down the line. does anyone have some good fits that would work for something like this? is this viable? or would it be more worth it to just buy an abaddon (armor) or maelstrom (shield) and fly those in incursions, since they're cheaper and not as big of a loss if i were to lose one?

i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-03-19 14:19:41 UTC
if i were you, i'd just find a few more or less competent incursion FCs and ask them directly what ship/fit they currently need the most. then buy and fit the ship with the speed of a thousand monkeys and ask for invitation.

as for the general question of viability, abaddon, apoc navy, legion, basilisk and nightmare are all good ships and should get you into a fleet eventually.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Wingmate
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-03-19 14:30:45 UTC
is there an in-game channel that i can ask the FCs? the incursion-specific local channels are just Jita with different 'sale' ads, it seems.

i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-03-19 15:39:46 UTC
I have used navy slicer and thrasher to do Scout level sites of the Incursion, solo. Both were kiting sniper fits.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Lyron-Baktos
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-03-19 15:52:24 UTC
Where does one go to find incursions? Just hop in the in-game channels and wait for one to show up then fly your ship to that system or very near it and look for an invite?
Tristen Michaels
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-03-19 16:04:12 UTC
You can always go into your Captain's Quarters and look at the view screen in there- it'll show recent incursions.
Boz Wel
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2012-03-19 16:15:00 UTC
If you have the cash to spare, you can make your life easier by just purchasing a Nightmare or Machariel as your incursion ship. Fit it with a good shield tank (look up an incursion fit or ask around on the popular incursion channels) and T2 pulse lasers/800mm AC's and you're good to go. You can get into fleets with lesser ships but you will oftentimes end up in worse fleets or waiting around longer for an invite. Armor can work too, but I'm less familiar with those fleets.

As far as good skillpoints getting you into fleets, you'd be surprised. I've seen mediocre fleets pick up shiny ships with meta 4 guns/fits/drones over T1 ships with a full T2 fit. That said, the good fleets are going to want both a shiny ship and the skillpoints to fly it properly.

If you're flying logi, in my experience you will have a bit of trouble finding fleets during prime time with Logi IV but it's doable. However, once you prove yourself, you can get repeat invites from established FCs.

And repeat invites, whether you fly logi or DPS, should really be your goal. Your incursion experience is going to differ dramatically if you fly with random fleets every time. I've seen some fleets that sit for over an hour trying to find members and then move at a snail's pace if they ever get started at all. I've also seen fleets that lose 5B+ worth of ships within 10 minutes due to a poor decision by an FC (he decided to send everyone into a site that had wrecks but no players... turned out an EVE University fleet wiped in there earlier and left the site half-way completed, with a shitload of spawns sitting right at the warp in point). On the other hand, I've been in fleets that cruise through the sites in 3-4 each, never lose a contest, and earn a nice amount of ISK/hour. It's that last category you want to get in repeatedly and the best way is to get to know some of the FCs/groups running incursion regularly.
Wingmate
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-03-19 16:40:56 UTC
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
Where does one go to find incursions? Just hop in the in-game channels and wait for one to show up then fly your ship to that system or very near it and look for an invite?

i understand how to find incursions. i'm wondering about how to find the incursion CHANNELS in the chat window. i know that there's a local channel that pops up when you're in the area, but i know that there are specific channels aside from that, where things are more private and you can actually talk to people who aren't pirates Lol

Boz Wel wrote:
If you have the cash to spare, you can make your life easier by just purchasing a Nightmare or Machariel as your incursion ship. Fit it with a good shield tank (look up an incursion fit or ask around on the popular incursion channels) and T2 pulse lasers/800mm AC's and you're good to go. You can get into fleets with lesser ships but you will oftentimes end up in worse fleets or waiting around longer for an invite. Armor can work too, but I'm less familiar with those fleets.

As far as good skillpoints getting you into fleets, you'd be surprised. I've seen mediocre fleets pick up shiny ships with meta 4 guns/fits/drones over T1 ships with a full T2 fit. That said, the good fleets are going to want both a shiny ship and the skillpoints to fly it properly.

If you're flying logi, in my experience you will have a bit of trouble finding fleets during prime time with Logi IV but it's doable. However, once you prove yourself, you can get repeat invites from established FCs.

And repeat invites, whether you fly logi or DPS, should really be your goal. Your incursion experience is going to differ dramatically if you fly with random fleets every time. I've seen some fleets that sit for over an hour trying to find members and then move at a snail's pace if they ever get started at all. I've also seen fleets that lose 5B+ worth of ships within 10 minutes due to a poor decision by an FC (he decided to send everyone into a site that had wrecks but no players... turned out an EVE University fleet wiped in there earlier and left the site half-way completed, with a shitload of spawns sitting right at the warp in point). On the other hand, I've been in fleets that cruise through the sites in 3-4 each, never lose a contest, and earn a nice amount of ISK/hour. It's that last category you want to get in repeatedly and the best way is to get to know some of the FCs/groups running incursion regularly.


i can technically afford a nightmare or mach, but it'll almost break the bank of my on-hand cash to do so. i think i'll start with a cheaper ship like an abaddon and upgrade from there. i can fit a 160k EHP aba with decent tracking and 850dps with pulses at reasonable ranges, so I'll likely start there and get a nightmare down the line.

i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433
Herr Ronin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-03-19 16:45:18 UTC
Wingmate wrote:
is there an in-game channel that i can ask the FCs? the incursion-specific local channels are just Jita with different 'sale' ads, it seems.


Feel free to join "ISN Secondary" The public channel of ISN, Ask any questions in there!

I'll Race You For A Amburhgear
Wingmate
Perkone
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-03-19 16:57:26 UTC
thought ISN was just shield fleets, and that you had to have a 2bn ship to fly with them. they do armor and t2 fits as well?

i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433
Muestereate
Minions LLC
#11 - 2012-03-19 18:05:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Muestereate
With your skills I would start looking at the nightmare. Use the logi to earn the isk for it. I'd work on cap skills if they aren't maxed, Nightmares use a lot of cap. I don't think Logi 4 will be a serious handicap if you work HQ and assaults. They are less picky about logi4 and you will also learn about broadcasting so when you take in the big guns you won't blow your broadcast for shields like so many people do that migrate from vanguards. You can try the baddon but it will get more fleets when there are a lot of high sec incursions up. Like 3. When incursions are tight only the best can win the contests. That's a good ship IMO opinion with lasers or artie and has the buffer you need for HQ'

What you can do is look at BTL public and read their extended MOTD stuff. Sign up for their blacklists if your concerned about the griefers. Shield list sends corps and armor list sends individuals on the same mailing list.You can use those lists to vet any fleet your in just not BTL ones. BTL has gotten elite though and vanguard oriented IMO so if you want to fly the baddon, your local incursion channel with a good blacklist in your contacts could be your starter path. I have had the worst fleets there but that's also where i got pulled into the best channels when they get desperate

If your really on the ball and can stick around a few hours instead of a few sites, you will get the invites to the other channels your looking for. If your drunk, afk, dual boxing or babysitting its gonna stress whoever is relying on you for logi support. DPS is not so critical. If distractions abound stay in DPS in vanguards. They sometimes yell when you miss instructions but others probably won't die over it... often. Everybody just makes less money. Ya don't want to anger 10 or 50 people at a time if you want those other invites for long.:)
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#12 - 2012-03-19 18:58:54 UTC
Muestereate wrote:


What you can do is look at BTL public and read their extended MOTD stuff. Sign up for their blacklists if your concerned about the griefers. Shield list sends corps and armor list sends individuals on the same mailing list.You can use those lists to vet any fleet your in just not BTL ones. BTL has gotten elite though and vanguard oriented IMO so if you want to fly the baddon, your local incursion channel with a good blacklist in your contacts could be your starter path. I have had the worst fleets there but that's also where i got pulled into the best channels when they get desperate



BTL does not have a mailing list for blacklisting. BTL's "blacklist" is the in-game channel block list.
The mailing list you are referring to is TDF's blacklist and is mostly utilized and most definitely run only by armor pilots/FCs from The ditanian fleet.
That doesn't prevent other channels from using it though Blink
IINightMearII
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-03-19 18:59:28 UTC
Wingmate wrote:
thought ISN was just shield fleets, and that you had to have a 2bn ship to fly with them. they do armor and t2 fits as well?


He stated, Join their public channel for some fitting advise or for general help. But yes.. Apart from that they do use 2bill ships.

Elite Community imo

....
Boz Wel
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2012-03-19 19:09:18 UTC
To be honest, Logi 4 is fine for VG's. I've never had any problem running VG's with a couple 4/2 basi's. It just makes it a bit harder to find fleets because there are a lot of Logi 5 pilots around and when people don't know you, they're going to pick the Logi 5 over the Logi 4 most of the time. The nice thing about Logi is that you don't have to invest much ISK into your ship, you don't need to worry about ammo, etc. The downside is that you have to pay more attention during the incursions, whereas DPS is pretty mindless once you know the routine.

If you're in it for the ISK, I'd avoid anything other than VG's for the time being. At least from the limited experience I have in the other sites, you're looking at a lengthy wait to form up the fleet and less ISK once you get it running. You are also looking at more risk because people don't know the sites as well.

As far as a Nightmare taking up all of your available cash, that may not be a big deal once you get into incursions. If you have ample time to play, it's easy to earn well over a billion in a weekend of blitzing incursions. One way to think about it is you're losing 100 million for every hour you sit around waiting for a fleet invite, waiting on your fleet to form up, etc. and you lose a fraction of that for every hour you spend in a poor fleet that can't do sites quickly or loses all their contests. While a "shiny" ship may cost you a lot up front, it will increase your income from running incursions because it will pave the way to getting into the good fleets. Regardless of the merits of the Abaddon with high skillpoints, most people are going to treat it was just another T1 ship and pass you over for someone in a faction BS.
Wingmate
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-03-19 19:38:14 UTC
this is all good info, everyone. i really appreciate the assist on this.

boz, i know what you mean. everyone in null wants to fly shiny ships, but a normal bs can beat the pants off of them if they don't know how to fly it, or have the knowledge to stay safe the whole time. it's hard to tell which is which when you don't know the person, though.

muestereate, my cap skills are one away from max, so i'm mostly set there (don't have the capacity skill at V, just IV on that one). maybe i'll pony up for spare basi and try a 4/2 fit this weekend. how much tank is needed on them?

in general, i don't play for more than a few hours at a time, but when i'm playing i'm totally focused. so we'll see how they work out.

i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433
Boz Wel
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2012-03-19 19:47:35 UTC
Default setup for Logi IV is something like this:


[Basilisk, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II

10MN Afterburner II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Photon Scattering Field II

Large Shield Transporter II
Large Shield Transporter II
Large Shield Transporter II
Large Shield Transporter II
Large 'Regard' Power Projector
Large 'Regard' Power Projector

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I


Drones to taste. In the site, setup your orbit at 1km around a BS target and leave your AB on. Your cap will be stable with 2 incoming cap transfers. Once you hit Logi 5, you can move to a 5/1 setup, as you'll only need 1 incoming cap transfer.
Wingmate
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2012-03-19 20:07:52 UTC
i can fit that pretty easily, actually. think i'll give it a shot later today when i get home. might spring for an emissions implant if i get the urge, since i'd be using a different clone for this anyways.

got any fits for nightmares?

i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-03-19 20:21:38 UTC
Lyron-Baktos wrote:
Where does one go to find incursions? Just hop in the in-game channels and wait for one to show up then fly your ship to that system or very near it and look for an invite?

Journal.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!
Boz Wel
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2012-03-19 21:39:26 UTC
Wingmate wrote:
i can fit that pretty easily, actually. think i'll give it a shot later today when i get home. might spring for an emissions implant if i get the urge, since i'd be using a different clone for this anyways.

got any fits for nightmares?


http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/56129-Nightmare-Incursion-Web.html

Looks okay but there are some things you can change to suit your tastes. I think the comments suggesting trying to fit a sensor booster on there are good. The 15km fed. navy webs help a lot to slow those MWD'ing rats down. You can use the cap transfer high to link with another NM if you're having cap problems. It also lets you fill in if a logi DC's or gets jammed by a Niarja (i.e., you can hit the other basi with your cap xfer to keep him going).
Mathis Athins
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-03-19 22:39:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Mathis Athins
As others have said it is really worth going for the pirate BS even if it breaks your bank. I dropped my entire wallet on a Nightmare a couple weeks ago and in three nights of blitzing Vanguards made it back. You would be surprised how many FC just look for the fact that you are flying a pirate BS that is not fail fit. My fit is entirely T2 unpimped and I have never had to wait more than 5 minutes to get into a fleet. Not to mention you are more likely to get into better fleets.

What you are looking for in a fit is >70% resists all around and >100k EHP (for BSs anyway). This is close to what I fly changed up a bit because you have better skills than I do:

[Nightmare, Pimped]
Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Tracking Enhancer II

Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Photon Scattering Field II
Heat Dissipation Field II

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Large Energy Transfer Array II
Large Energy Transfer Array II

Large Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I


Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5


I would also carry IN Multifrequency to switch to when ships get closer. This gives you the ability to hit the first two Deltols (SP?) in OTAs who spawn about 65 KM off while allowing you to wreck the last one who spawns about 35KM off and closes. Sebo helps lock the little guys in NMCs who you want to smack as quickly as possible as you will have a harder time tracking them once they get into orbit. You can drop one of the CDFEs for an Energy Discharge Elutriation rig if you find you are having Cap issues. I have less cap in my fit and find I am fine 95% of the time if I turn off all mods as soon as the site is finished and don't turn them back on until I am landing on grid in the next site. If you get a cap buddy you are fine. The two cap transfers also give you the utility to buddy with a Logi 4 4/2 Basi.
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