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[Proposal] It's just criminal - Smuggling

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Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-03-21 20:43:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Boosters are primarily the player related product that would be of most emphasis I guess. And yes I'm aware of the potential move by CCP to legalise them or reduce the illegality associated with some to potentially open up this trade. Of course for selfish reasons of this proposal there would be an interest to maintain their status.

There are also a number of NPC trade goods that have variable legality in Empire sectors:

Khumaak,
Protein Delicacies,
Small Arms,
Ectoplasm,
Narcotics (Various types),
Elite Slaves,
Slaves,
Plutonium,
Toxic Waste

So potentially some aspect by CCP could be exploited to make low sec industry apply some profitable trade runs to other areas with these products. Where they don't already exist of course.

It would be nice to see more player related products of course to expand on the possible illegal industry possibilities.

One idea i had thought of was "cheaper" counterfeit products.

E.g. some implants could have a counterfeit or black market equivalence. They would operate in a similar way to their regular bonefide version but they would also have a negative effect associated with them to balance out a cheaper cost. Problem with these is they would obviously compete with regular implants to some extent and also would need to be labelled in the market correctly to make them stand out from regular implants so as to not confuse the two.

As such the black market versions could be made available in low sec LP stores. But have some illegal status to transport but not illegal to use. There may be other more sensible counterfeit items that could be treated in a similar way.

Or there may be new opportunites similar to boosters, which would actually expand on illegal products players can make sensibly and fit into the economy. If you can think of any such items that might be useful I'd appreciate it. I'll keep it in mind of course, but haven't applied much thought to it as yet.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
Argyle Jones
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-03-21 21:34:32 UTC
I agree that smuggling / black-markets are a wasted opportunity in EVE atm, so read the PDF and here's my thoughts

I like the skill based approach, it seems right that cloaking should be a pre-requisite and I like the idea that it's not 100% certain to work.

The secret compartment module is a good idea as well, although I think it should work a little differently. Consider that the more secret compartments you have on a ship, the more likely they are to be discovered by customs... so it seems backwards that having more of them would increase the chance of concealing your contraband. I suggest you have two modules, a low-slot and a mid-slot

AttentionSecret Compartment I

Low Slot module that adds x m3 of shielded storage space, either in seperate cargo hold or in your main. For each extra secret compartment after the first you receive a penalty to your concealment percentage (like a "reverse" stacking penalty), meaning that you can either transport small amounts at less risk or larger amounts at higher risk

AttentionCargohold White Noise Emitters

A mid slot module that emits a signal similar to a cargohold full of consumer electronics. Used in conjunction with a secret compartment to conceal the 'blank' space in the cargohold that would otherwise show up on cargohold scanners. Adds x to the value of the concealment skill

Finally, I don't much like the idea of a ship that gets a bonus to concealment, as it really breaks with the immersion in the game. I mean, if a company started making trucks with hidden compartments to avoid customs, I think there'd be a pretty good chance all such trucks would get pulled in for a check. The whole idea behind smuggling is that it can't look like what it is, so IMO it should happen on all the regular ships in EVE, not some designated 'smuggler' ship.

Just my two cents,

/Yargle
Argyle Jones
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-03-21 21:45:41 UTC
Btw,

It also always bothered me that there are customs agents on all high-sec gates that scan all ships. If you are patient and careful enough, and move with a scout, it should be possible to plot a course through the 0.5 and 0.6 systems without running into customs.

Also, it'd be great with a mechanic that took into account how many ships are currently at the gate. If you're moving through a gate with 60 people on it, customs should be less likely to check your particular ship than if you're all by yourself.

/Yargle
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2012-03-21 22:05:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Argyle Jones wrote:
I agree that smuggling / black-markets are a wasted opportunity in EVE atm, so read the PDF and here's my thoughts

I like the skill based approach, it seems right that cloaking should be a pre-requisite and I like the idea that it's not 100% certain to work.

The secret compartment module is a good idea as well, although I think it should work a little differently. Consider that the more secret compartments you have on a ship, the more likely they are to be discovered by customs... so it seems backwards that having more of them would increase the chance of concealing your contraband. I suggest you have two modules, a low-slot and a mid-slot

AttentionSecret Compartment I

Low Slot module that adds x m3 of shielded storage space, either in seperate cargo hold or in your main. For each extra secret compartment after the first you receive a penalty to your concealment percentage (like a "reverse" stacking penalty), meaning that you can either transport small amounts at less risk or larger amounts at higher risk

AttentionCargohold White Noise Emitters

A mid slot module that emits a signal similar to a cargohold full of consumer electronics. Used in conjunction with a secret compartment to conceal the 'blank' space in the cargohold that would otherwise show up on cargohold scanners. Adds x to the value of the concealment skill

Finally, I don't much like the idea of a ship that gets a bonus to concealment, as it really breaks with the immersion in the game. I mean, if a company started making trucks with hidden compartments to avoid customs, I think there'd be a pretty good chance all such trucks would get pulled in for a check. The whole idea behind smuggling is that it can't look like what it is, so IMO it should happen on all the regular ships in EVE, not some designated 'smuggler' ship.

Just my two cents,

/Yargle


Some good points.

Can you expand on the seperate cargo space model for the secret compartments. Would you see it as like having an expandable bay area that needs these modules to become active. And as such would be a new mechanic applicable to all ships that would only become applicable when these modules are applied? Would you see each module granting a fixed m3 rather than %? Care to suggest some maths to illustrate useage?

This does make sense as a custom fitted design to ships that smugglers would use and I take the criticsim that a ship designed for such purposes would stand out. I guess my purpose here was to give some incentive to use of the ship. But I guess even as a fast equivalant it would be useful. So I'd be happy to drop the dedicated role bonus if it's not deemed to be sensible. It would then be a case of how best to adjust the numbers, as I had this factored into a role for the ship as a result.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
Argyle Jones
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2012-03-21 23:31:48 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:

Some good points.

Can you expand on the seperate cargo space model for the secret compartments. Would you see it as like having an expandable bay area that needs these modules to become active. And as such would be a new mechanic applicable to all ships that would only become applicable when these modules are applied? Would you see each module granting a fixed m3 rather than %? Care to suggest some maths to illustrate useage?


Ideally it would be a new cargo compartment, like the drone bay or the ore hold on a Rorqual, as this would be, by far, the easiest way to manage your concealed cargo, the available space for contraband, etc.

With regards to secret compartments giving a percentage based bonus volume to the concealed cargo space m3, you can go two ways on that. If you make it percentage based that will mean that you can carry more contraband cargo on a bigger ship. If it is instead a fixed value, you could argue that a small compartment is more difficult to locate on a large battleship than on a small frigate, and have the ship volume somehow impact the concealment effectiveness of the compartment . Either way makes sense to me.

Grumpy Owly wrote:

This does make sense as a custom fitted design to ships that smugglers would use and I take the criticsim that a ship designed for such purposes would stand out. I guess my purpose here was to give some incentive to use of the ship. But I guess even as a fast equivalant it would be useful. So I'd be happy to drop the dedicated role bonus if it's not deemed to be sensible. It would then be a case of how best to adjust the numbers, as I had this factored into a role for the ship as a result.


I didn't work out any numbers, my notion was purely conceptual and based on game immersion. I think the very nature of smuggling is that you try to look just like any other ship out there. Also, in my humble opinion there already are enough cookie cutter configurations out there in New Eden. I'd prefer more ways to use the ships I already have.

Great ideas though, and would work as a good base for the later implementation of a proper black market in low-sec.

/Yargle
cap Mal
Defense Advanced Research Program Agency
#26 - 2012-03-25 16:38:29 UTC
I really like your ideas.

But, instead of making a new ship class for smuggling, that would obviously stand out to the cops, why not let the pirate factions produce custom versions of the four races haulers specially modified to look like normal iteron, sigil, wreathe etc, but actually fitted out with a bonus to concealment and extra agility or a covops cloak or warp stab bonus so the cops can't scram you?

They could only be produced in low sec for example, and the bpc's could be iliigal in high sec. And obviously, the bpc's could be offered through the pirate's LP stores and drop from their complexes.

You're cloaked can idea is pretty cool. It would be nice if you could set them up as dropboxes for illigal goods, and that would be one way to sell boosters etc. on the open market in high sec. Hell, it would be nice if you could have POS modules that conceal that you have drug labs in high sec as well, but the smuggling variants of the haulers would help you at least get the goods into highsec easier.
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2012-03-25 16:54:00 UTC
Thanks for the feedback. Keep the recommendations and suggestions coming.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
Adunh Slavy
#28 - 2012-03-25 20:32:56 UTC
Something to keep in mind, and this is what I hope my CCP crystal ball is right about ... The new Crimwatch 2.0 and the suspect flag.

When jumping through a gate it will be a very simple matter to flag the player as suspect if and when they are carrying contraband. They then have to run like hell to the next gate, dock or play dodge the probes.

There may be some restrictions on cloaking and things of that nature, how all that pans out who knows. Skills, modules, faction standings, etc may and could be used as modifiers in all of this.

What I hope is, customs agents go away for the most part, and the enforcement of contraband is put into the hands of the players. This will create an entire new set of career options, from faction white knight / gate camp gank for suspect flags and the assortment of pick up my contract full of contraband margin trade scams.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Uronksur Suth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2012-04-01 04:53:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Uronksur Suth
I think Eve has more than enough content to be working on without trying to add new ships, new skills, and a bunch of new items to make scavenging a new mini-profession.
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#30 - 2012-04-01 10:07:56 UTC
Uronksur Suth wrote:
I think Eve has more than enough content to be working on without trying to add new ships, new skills, and a bunch of new items to make scavenging a new mini-profession.


By that reasoning we should never try anything new until everything in eve works perfectly, dont be daft. This is a well thought out idea with a very simple basic structure (2 modules and some support skills) allowing for quick introduction while also giving plenty of options for later iteration.

supported

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
Adunh Slavy
#31 - 2012-04-03 01:41:17 UTC
Uronksur Suth wrote:
I think Eve has more than enough content to be working on without trying to add new ships, new skills, and a bunch of new items to make scavenging a new mini-profession.



All that really needs to happen IMO is flag a smuggler as suspect (Crimewatch 2.0) when they jump through a gate with contraband, let players handle the rest. There's enough eager trigger fingers in Eve to handle it. Blockade runers are somewhat immune, but I am going to guess suspects can't cloak based on the feeling given from the Crimewatch talk at Fanfest, but I have no solid refrence for that, just a huntch.

Magnates, probes, kessies and which ever gal frig has the fat cargo hold, will be the most likely used, I suspect.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2012-04-03 07:28:59 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Uronksur Suth wrote:
I think Eve has more than enough content to be working on without trying to add new ships, new skills, and a bunch of new items to make scavenging a new mini-profession.



All that really needs to happen IMO is flag a smuggler as suspect (Crimewatch 2.0) when they jump through a gate with contraband, let players handle the rest. There's enough eager trigger fingers in Eve to handle it. Blockade runers are somewhat immune, but I am going to guess suspects can't cloak based on the feeling given from the Crimewatch talk at Fanfest, but I have no solid refrence for that, just a huntch.

Magnates, probes, kessies and which ever gal frig has the fat cargo hold, will be the most likely used, I suspect.


I like the designs with player policing becoming more relevant, but I have a feeling it isn't a solution to cover all bases or completely replace existing NPC systems is my only concern. As such for myself I want to reserve judgement on the new crimewatch mechanics after the implementation, but I do understand the relevance of what your saying and the added options for playability would be a welcome addition also.

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
Adunh Slavy
#33 - 2012-04-03 17:02:12 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:

I like the designs with player policing becoming more relevant, but I have a feeling it isn't a solution to cover all bases or completely replace existing NPC systems is my only concern. As such for myself I want to reserve judgement on the new crimewatch mechanics after the implementation, but I do understand the relevance of what your saying and the added options for playability would be a welcome addition also.



Yes, it needs more, but that would be the core of it. I doubt it will be part of the first rll out of crimewatch 2.0 anyway.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#34 - 2012-04-05 10:31:22 UTC
I like the idea, the new skill is workable and the covert cargo and diplomatic pouch mods are interesting but I see no need for a new class of vessels when there are a number of existing hulls that could viably make use of these items. As to a GSC that can cloak itself I think thats pushing it a bit to much.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
Valya Niell
Drunken Yordles
#35 - 2012-06-20 04:40:04 UTC
I like the idea and support it. i do agree that there shouldn't be another class of ship implemented. as far as the cargohold i think a way for it to work is possibly putting a 0 m3 extra cargohold on all ships and having them work like cargo expanders, either based on the current cargohold of the ship. and leave the concealment modifier stay the same.

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ISD Eshtir
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#36 - 2012-10-12 16:45:40 UTC
Thread unlocked as per request by the OP.

ISD Eshtir

Captain

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Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#37 - 2012-10-13 15:01:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Che Biko
Ah, so here's one of the smuggling/contraband threads that the forum search function (why I decided to use it? I guess I figured I'd give it another chance.) could not find for me.

Anyway, I've recently given the topic of contraband smuggling some thought and I've posted my idea for a new customs system on the F&I forum, and I welcome some feedback: Linky

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