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Hauling in High Sec

Author
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#21 - 2012-03-20 13:53:27 UTC
I wanted to emphasize a point that Zaxix touched on with regard to passive scaning.
there are passive targeting modules that can allow pirates to target and scan you without you getting alerted that you are targeted.
most ships going in and out of Jita get scanned in this way. You may not hve realised that you were getting scanned but you were.

If the potential drops are worth more than the value of the ships it would take to gank you than you will most likely get ganked. T1 industrials are very easy to pop no matter how much tank you put on them, although with max tank you will not be able to haul much. A single tier 3 BC with high alfa can insta pop you without a tank. T2 industrials such as blockade runners and deep space transports are much safer but you still sacrifice cargo for safety. a deep space transport with maxed cargo is still a soft target and a blockade runner with max cargo is still in the 10k m3 range.

for high value cargo the only way to go is a freighter or ORCA. even a freighter will get ganked if it has over 1 bil worth of cargo. Orca is what I usually use, as others have said anything is the corp hanger is safe, will not drop if you are popped. an ORCA with cargo rigs and cargo expanders can get close to 100k m3 general cargo but are quite soft, however going the other way you can fit a very good active shield tank on an ORCA and when combined with a damage controller II and reinforced bulkheads you can get well over 200,000 ehp on top of the active tank of up to an X-large shield booster. if your cap can last 2 minutes CONCORD will be there to help by then. An ORCA with +200k ehp and a X-large shield booster would take a much larger fleet to kill before concord shows up than even a freighter.
Salo Aldeland
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-03-21 14:03:26 UTC
If you have the cargo room to spare, you can try and obfuscate the value of your cargo by packing the excess room with as many different items as you can. It won't fool everybody, but the extra time it takes for somebody to compute the worth of your loot may make the difference.
Mimi Nova
Doomheim
#23 - 2012-03-21 18:09:09 UTC
What about insta warps outside of the stations? I personally use these with a blockade runner and have not had a problem, but I'm unsure of how effective they are against good gank squads. I figure every bit helps.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#24 - 2012-03-21 18:14:13 UTC
Cargo scanners have a visible effect. Even if passive targeting is used, you can sometimes tell if you are being scanned just by watching closely.

Also: Whenever you are hauling cargo of little worth, take your time. Let the pirates waste their time scanning you. You may buy sufficient time for another hauler to escape. Next time they could return the favor.

Ive undocked at Jita and sat in one spot and had the same guy waste time scanning me twice (both times with passive targeting).

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Phugoid
Absolute Order XL
Absolute Honor
#25 - 2012-03-22 14:36:25 UTC
Hi Ester....

Well, I'll give u my 2 cents worth :)

So far, Ive basically been mining alot, and courier runs too, w the occasional lvl2 mission here and there. But lately I'll do at least one or 2 courier runs per day, and/or mine.

Ive learned a few things with courier runs, which do provide a steady income, with a small risk, but pretty much evertything in Eve has a risk :)

For the most part, I use an Itty V for hauling up to just under 42km3 worth of stuff. A badger mark2 for about 21km3, and a Viator for about 10km3. Now, the Viator I will use for the occasional lo-sec runs, because with that ship u can warp cloaked and pretty much escape any of the bad guys, usually..... (tho they did get me one day, but almost escaped) The Viator I got after I had lost 2 itty V's, since they are made of wallpaper pretty much, dont trust an Itty V to anything other than hi-sec.

My rule of thumb as far as collateral goes is I dont risk more than 10% of my total Isks. Ive been told by gankers that they usually dont gank and or set traps unless they know they'll profit at least 200mil. Either way it's always a good idea to NEVER auto-pilot any courier run. Set warp to spots at the main hubs. At Amarr, I can warp to my spot in just a couple seconds, since the Amarr station basically "poops" u out!

I do have an Orca, tho I havent used it much yet for courier runs. I have compromised on my Orca fit a bit tho, it holds a lil less than most, BUT it's also a bit faster than most. Orca's take about a year to warp, mine is down to a couple months ;)
Always trust your instinct. If u think something is fishy, dock, and wait a few hours or so, or just take a different route if possible.

Good Luck! o/

Flugzeugführer

Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#26 - 2012-03-22 15:01:56 UTC
@Op

You should definitively aim for an Orca. Just saying.
Maria Yumeno
Venomous Cloud
#27 - 2012-03-22 16:19:13 UTC
I lost around a billion isk before i learned my lesson

You cannot tank a t1 hauler. Do not carry more than 50m isk or so in the cargo hold. Warp to zero doesn't work . It doesn;t matter if u r at the keyboard or not
aim for a blockade runner, and when u get the isk, a freighter or orca.
Tikera Tissant
#28 - 2012-03-22 19:14:15 UTC
Maria Yumeno wrote:
I
aim for a blockade runner, and when u get the isk, a freighter or orca.


I believe you mean a deep space transport like the occator / bustard / impel / mastodon, whom can be tanked decently to survive a few volleys from a ganker or two, while still hold a decent amount of cargo.

Blockade runners are the crane / prorator / viator / prowler, and they are built for low cargo size but extreme fast align and warp speeds for transporters. And they will not survive a gank.
Pinstar Colton
Sweet Asteroid Acres
#29 - 2012-03-22 19:46:16 UTC
Do high sec pirates bother with shuttles? I have a few low size but high value items to bring to market (Implants) but not sure if a shuttle is a good idea, or an extremely stupid one.

Also, what do you think about setting up shop 1-2 jumps outside a trade hub? Buyers might enjoy not having to risk of getting ninjad when looking to buy minerals (which is what I primarily sell)

In the cat-and-mouse game that is low sec, there is no shame in learning to be a better mouse.

Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2012-03-22 22:09:51 UTC
Pinstar Colton wrote:
Do high sec pirates bother with shuttles? I have a few low size but high value items to bring to market (Implants) but not sure if a shuttle is a good idea, or an extremely stupid one.

Also, what do you think about setting up shop 1-2 jumps outside a trade hub? Buyers might enjoy not having to risk of getting ninjad when looking to buy minerals (which is what I primarily sell)



oh yeah why wouldn't they? They can pop a shuttle in a outfitted ship that costs almost nothing. And a shuttle will pop damn quick. Gankers around trade routes are not generally going for tears but for profit. So if they can get more isk ganking you over how much their ship is worth they will go after you. Meaning if you were hauling for example 250m isk in implants just about any ship valued less than 25m (maybe even 50m isk, unsure of exact drop percents) will be trying to suicide gank you, since the chances of profiting from suicide ganking you is going to be much higher than the ship they are using.

Nigel Steele
Eveville Empire
#31 - 2012-03-22 22:19:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Nigel Steele
As far as being scanned a few systems before you get instapopped, they scan you while you're aligning.
Wouldn't it be great if you could align while cloaked?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uBcK_c8Gy4

This method isn't perfect (if anything is within 2k of you, you will uncloak), but any edge you can get is worth doing.

Basically fit a MWD and cloak.

After you come out of a gate you are cloaked for one minute.

Select the next gate manually so it's in your "Selected Item" box top right, with the align/warp buttons.

Click the Align button and immediately activate the cloak and then the MWD using F1/F2 (or wherever they are in your highs)
...main point is you shouldn't move your mouse off the Selected Item area, so all the commands are quickly entered.

You should be aligned by the end of the MWD cycle.

Just before the MWD cycle ends, deactivate your cloak (F1/2) and click the warp button in selected item box.... you should instawarp. This give them very little time to react to scan you.

I gots all the instascan skills and mods and can help you run some trials if you want (=

GL
Zeerover
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#32 - 2012-03-22 22:32:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Zeerover
The Prowler is an excellent ship for non-afk traveling. Align and cloak and nothing short of a smartbombing ship (or the lag monster) will get you on a gate - which is fairly difficult to pull off in high-sec.

Remember to bookmark the undock of the stations you're using and make insta undock bookmark as well, since the prowlers cloaking powers won't help you when you land 2000 meters of the dock ring in 4-4, nor when you undock from 4-4. With insta undocks (the P4 station in Jita works mostly as a near insta if you don't know how to make one) you'll limit the time available for people to scan you out and pop you there.

An additional plus for the Prowler is that it is nearly impossible to catch in low-sec and you can therefore use it to pick up cheap items in low-sec and haul them to Jita/Amarr. Just stay away from the generally camped systems like Tama, Rancer, Amamake, Egghelende, Old Man Star, etcs. In those systems you'll have a hard time getting out from the station itself.

Once you've grinded yourself up to a Fenrir/Orca you need to ask yourself what kind of cargo you're making money on. If it's low volume/high value go for the Orca, if it's high volume go for the Fenrir. Though remember that neither of these ships can be used in low-sec at all, where all they will become is tasty kills for a gatecamp.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/Qrwa2.png[/img]

Ester Gray
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-03-28 00:26:29 UTC
Thanks for all the advice.. I have been in a mastodon for a week now.. I've been trying to keep the value under 200mill in the hold and it seems to work. I get targeted a lot but thats about it... Its a long way to a Fenrir
Raven Ether
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-03-28 11:17:28 UTC
Orca corp hangar can't be scanned by players yes, and that's what matters really, who cares about illegal items.


I hope CCP doesn't change that, the Orca is like your maximum security transport these days, as no one can see what's in the corp hangar.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#35 - 2012-03-28 13:54:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Ester Gray wrote:
I went thru a gate and poped out on the other side and instantly was in my pod with my giant containers floating around me. I was dumbfounded.



TROLL


When you are popped with GSC's in your hold, all the loot still winds up in one single Container as per usual.

YOU were never ganked.

THIS OP is a lie from top to bottom.

Got tons of biters though.Roll

Oh, and adding emotional stuff like "I was dumbfounded" reads like the fiction that it is. Try better next time.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#36 - 2012-03-30 13:36:51 UTC
In regards to tanking, the best way to tank an Orca, which is a very favorable investment compared to a freighter, is to fit for maximum shield and hull buffer with as much resistance mods as you can. This will give you mad EHP. However, do not, under any circumstance fit faction or officer mods on the Orca as that will be just asking for a gank. T2 mods are the most you can go without getting too much attention. The small problem is figuring out the right balance of resistance and buffer for maximum EHP.

Avoid using shield boosters. You will only be able to get one or two cycles of shield boosts before you get popped especially against a gank fleet of maxed-alpha-only Tornadoes. Not only that, the shield booster that's appropriate for the Orca takes up too much CPU/PG and leaves you little room for other mods that could help.

For your hauler, assuming you haven't done so already, I would also recommend training up your trade skills. My alt can do hauling in an Orca and its trade skills are pretty high at the moment and can do remote buy/sell orders on the fly from about 7 jumps away. That and the fact that it can do all that in bulk using skills related to wholesale and accounting. As my hauler moves along, I constantly look at my assets window to see which nearest station has my stuff that I don't need but can sell at a marked up price. If I can't reach the station because of the sec status of the system it's in, I just fire sell it as usually the parts I keep in those systems aren't expensive and are too common to try to mark up. At the moment, I'm trying to clear my assets list by going from system to system in order by number of jumps and picking up or selling stuff as I go. Much of the junk I accumulated was just that... junk. But it's nice to do a little spring cleaning every now and then and we capsuleers tend to be Hoarders Online much of the time.

So far, I managed to earn tens of millions of ISK selling off the stuff that I don't need. I even found nearly a hundred destroyers littered in a few systems and sold those off remotely for about 100million ISK more (marked up of course). It's amazing what you can find littered around the galaxy. I've been a messy pilot as I moved my based of operations from system to system.

Adapt or Die

cuoredipietra famedoro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-03-31 21:15:29 UTC
Starting from Jita, have an alt in Rens and one in Amarr.

Check the prices of high-value low-m3 items, like say implants (but there are many other possibilities).

Since you are targeting items that have high margins for very low m3 you can easily transport them in cloak frigates.

Very safe, very difficult to catch, extremely high margin but you will have to choose your items carefully because this trick is well known by scammers. (for example, i'd pay attention to uber-deals on pirate tags, mkay?)

If you want to do some trade run together, call me ingame, EU timezone.

All the best and safe flying

Caeci caecos ducentes 

Kestrix
The Whispering
#38 - 2012-04-01 15:14:58 UTC
I was moveing about a billion ISK worth of stuff for my mission Domi from Jita to Teon in a Mammoth, I was attacked 3 times on the return trip and got back intact. A well tanked Mammoth can stand up to suicide attacks. Having said that I won't be doing it again.
cuoredipietra famedoro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-04-01 15:33:59 UTC
Kestrix wrote:
I was moveing about a billion ISK worth of stuff for my mission Domi from Jita to Teon in a Mammoth, I was attacked 3 times on the return trip and got back intact. A well tanked Mammoth can stand up to suicide attacks. Having said that I won't be doing it again.



Were you moving faction modules? In that case, how many m3?

If the answer is "less than 200m3" then it would have been better to fly in a frigate for several reasons:

> they are not industrial vessels: industrial == target and you don't want to look like one
> they are fast to align and warp, nanoed they are even faster: fast == not a good target
> for the reasons above, they do not get scanned very often, especially when you keep on warping to 0, industrial vessels are juicier targets and they are preferrably scanned first

should you try the run again, do it this way and you'll be fine.

Caeci caecos ducentes 

Kestrix
The Whispering
#40 - 2012-04-01 15:38:10 UTC
cuoredipietra famedoro wrote:
Kestrix wrote:
I was moveing about a billion ISK worth of stuff for my mission Domi from Jita to Teon in a Mammoth, I was attacked 3 times on the return trip and got back intact. A well tanked Mammoth can stand up to suicide attacks. Having said that I won't be doing it again.



Were you moving faction modules? In that case, how many m3?

If the answer is "less than 200m3" then it would have been better to fly in a frigate for several reasons:

> they are not industrial vessels: industrial == target and you don't want to look like one
> they are fast to align and warp, nanoed they are even faster: fast == not a good target
> for the reasons above, they do not get scanned very often, especially when you keep on warping to 0, industrial vessels are juicier targets and they are preferrably scanned first

should you try the run again, do it this way and you'll be fine.


I use a Prowler now. Nothing beats a covert Ops cloak :) If it's a large m3 then it's my freighter.
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