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UI Iteration isn't enough - We need to start from scratch
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#21 - 2012-03-17 16:52:25 UTC
Andski wrote:
Famble wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Remember this isnt wow where everyone can script down their entire ui to pressing 3 keys.


No this is Eve where you just download a bot to do it for you in zero.


look at you

you think nobody bots in highsec


Deflection.

Best defense.

As to the OP. I have to agree that the UI needs significant work. A complete remake though? I don't think they have the inclination or resources for it.

Mr Epeen Cool
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-03-18 15:32:18 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Andski wrote:
Famble wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Remember this isnt wow where everyone can script down their entire ui to pressing 3 keys.


No this is Eve where you just download a bot to do it for you in zero.


look at you

you think nobody bots in highsec


Deflection.

Best defense.

As to the OP. I have to agree that the UI needs significant work. A complete remake though? I don't think they have the inclination or resources for it.

Mr Epeen Cool



They definitely have the resources, but I think you could be right about the inclination. Which is a real shame and shows a lack of foresite on par with Incarna if true. I'm still hoping it's not true, but my enthusiasm for EvE is already waning fast again as I really do think the UI iteration is a very token effort and their priorities seem to be wrong - I mean, who cares about improving the character creation interface? Something that you will only use a small handful of times in your entire EvE career.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Varve
Oredustries
#23 - 2012-03-18 16:14:44 UTC
Miss Whippy wrote:

If I were a new player I would be utterly perplexed as to how to save settings for different tabs and what a bracket is meant to be.


The tutorials go over this and point you to the relevant Evelopedia page

Miss Whippy wrote:

I still find it ludicrous that adding an object to the overview will add it to every tab rather then just the one selected.


Just tried this and nope it doesn't add things to all of my tabs when I add an object

So there's two problems that are, infact, not problems

But yeah the UI does still need polishing and improving.

"...You could still be a hero!" "I'd rather be a protagonist."
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-03-18 16:52:42 UTC
Varve wrote:

The tutorials go over this and point you to the relevant Evelopedia page


A good UI would be self explanatory. I can't think of many games (In fact non come to mind) where I've had to start by trawling through the manual. Also many of the good UI's I've seen have simple mouse-over help options, which can be turned on or off.

Quote:

Just tried this and nope it doesn't add things to all of my tabs when I add an object

So there's two problems that are, infact, not problems

But yeah the UI does still need polishing and improving.


It's hard to say if it's a bug or intentional, but I've just tried it again, and adding things (from the space overview) will often add the chosen object to other if not all tabs. It's not consistent in this though, so try again.

The UI needs more polishing and improving that it would be easier just to start again. Even if you were right, that's only two problems out of hundreds. In any case it's not just the problems with the UI, it's that the UI isn't half as good as it should be.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-03-18 16:56:18 UTC
CCP could save a lot of time, effort and money if they would release an API for the community to build a UI off of.

they basically need to create a list of /slash commands we have access to and allow us to hook into them and create / hide / skin elements of the UI.

Then allow the community to create the ui and CCP can just develop the api and focus on ships/content.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Moghwai
Ebil Kittys
#26 - 2012-03-18 18:04:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Moghwai
Zagdul wrote:
CCP could save a lot of time, effort and money if they would release an API for the community to build a UI off of.

they basically need to create a list of /slash commands we have access to and allow us to hook into them and create / hide / skin elements of the UI.

Then allow the community to create the ui and CCP can just develop the api and focus on ships/content.


Like i already suggested earlier. Got not much response despite the usual whining:-(

Thread in Features and Ideas

------------------------------> While encountered together in captivity, in the wild, the stapler and the staple remover are natural enemies. ------------------------------>
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2012-03-19 05:57:19 UTC
As eloquently as Mara Rinn put it in this thread, I somehow doubt CCP has resources to spare to "replace every strut in the Eiffel Tower without shutting the tourist flow down." Big smile
Ender Karazaki
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-03-19 06:35:58 UTC
The UI is fine for those who live for solving the Rubix cube and play Tetris.
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2012-03-19 06:53:12 UTC
Moghwai wrote:
Zagdul wrote:
CCP could save a lot of time, effort and money if they would release an API for the community to build a UI off of.

they basically need to create a list of /slash commands we have access to and allow us to hook into them and create / hide / skin elements of the UI.

Then allow the community to create the ui and CCP can just develop the api and focus on ships/content.


Like i already suggested earlier. Got not much response despite the usual whining:-(

Thread in Features and Ideas


While it would be interesting, I'm not a fan of this idea. One of the fundamental principles of EVE is that it's an equal playing field. Custom build UI's would lead to all sorts of in game advantage and it would also become macro hell.

Let's just stick to the plan and get CCP to bring EVE into the current decade. If that isn't possible, then I think EVE's days will ultimately be numbered. Sooner of later, someone is going to make something very similar to EVE, but with a better UI and a better Engine. For all I know it already be too late. I'm not being melodramatic, I'd just be amazed if a developer out there hasn't already looked at EVE and seen how they can do it much better.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Chingy Chonga
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#30 - 2012-03-23 15:32:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Chingy Chonga
Miss Whippy wrote:
Moghwai wrote:
Zagdul wrote:
CCP could save a lot of time, effort and money if they would release an API for the community to build a UI off of.

they basically need to create a list of /slash commands we have access to and allow us to hook into them and create / hide / skin elements of the UI.

Then allow the community to create the ui and CCP can just develop the api and focus on ships/content.


Like i already suggested earlier. Got not much response despite the usual whining:-(

Thread in Features and Ideas


While it would be interesting, I'm not a fan of this idea. One of the fundamental principles of EVE is that it's an equal playing field. Custom build UI's would lead to all sorts of in game advantage and it would also become macro hell.

Let's just stick to the plan and get CCP to bring EVE into the current decade. If that isn't possible, then I think EVE's days will ultimately be numbered. Sooner of later, someone is going to make something very similar to EVE, but with a better UI and a better Engine. For all I know it already be too late. I'm not being melodramatic, I'd just be amazed if a developer out there hasn't already looked at EVE and seen how they can do it much better.


That, plus I think implementing a system for "add-ons" (more or less) would make the system susceptible to more exploits since it is created with python, but that is just my opinion.
Hosanna
Isktr
#31 - 2012-03-23 20:36:50 UTC
What can you ask from people who dont even play the game.
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-03-23 20:58:01 UTC
Hosanna wrote:
What can you ask from people who dont even play the game.


Um, wot?

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-03-23 23:37:58 UTC
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-03-23 23:45:20 UTC
Agreed. They need to devote a large part on an expansion to the UI as it's really bad at the moment.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Solhild
Doomheim
#35 - 2012-03-24 05:15:09 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
http://cdnmo.coveritlive.com/media/image/201203/phpWMGHCC60.JPG


But is it enough?

Hurry up with it so I can try it out Cool
Renturu
In Glorium et Decorum
#36 - 2012-03-24 06:32:37 UTC
The comment about releasing the API for players to be involved in development is a good idea with only one caveat... too much random code exposed to the general public and you invite Hacks, Keyloggers and Trogens... Not too many players would appreciate that.

However, create a developer program... you pay an annual fee to get the early release code (only to be tested in Sisi, of course) and you have the rights to make changes that are submitted to CCP. Any changes the said developer made only work in Sisi so it cannot be utilized prematurely in-game.

The fee can be pretty substantial (license fee, etc) just so the average player doesn't get to it. Also, limiting licenses (reserve a slot and you get a month to tinker with it). IDK, I'm kinda tossed on the idea.

By the orders of PlunderBunny: ☻/ /▌ / \ This is Bob, post him into your forum sig and help him conquer the forums.
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2012-03-24 16:31:53 UTC
Renturu wrote:
The comment about releasing the API for players to be involved in development is a good idea with only one caveat... too much random code exposed to the general public and you invite Hacks, Keyloggers and Trogens... Not too many players would appreciate that.

However, create a developer program... you pay an annual fee to get the early release code (only to be tested in Sisi, of course) and you have the rights to make changes that are submitted to CCP. Any changes the said developer made only work in Sisi so it cannot be utilized prematurely in-game.

The fee can be pretty substantial (license fee, etc) just so the average player doesn't get to it. Also, limiting licenses (reserve a slot and you get a month to tinker with it). IDK, I'm kinda tossed on the idea.


I like the idea when you put it like that. Might be a drain on CCP resources this way, is the only thing.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Loius Woo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2012-05-07 17:31:05 UTC
I think it is worth looking at a "start from scratch" option for the UI. For a game like EVE, the UI needs to be constantly changing. At some point, it becomes so clogged or unwieldy, that it needs to be revamped, redesigned, etc.

I don't think this is a pejorative comment about the dedication of CCP in any way, but merely a call to reassess the ability of the existing infrastructure to accomplish the current mission of the UI.

I agree with the OP, though instead of a sinking ship metaphor, I would go more toward an overly modified car that is just too complicated to continue to work as intended any more.

+1 to examining a completely new UI.
Loius Woo
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2012-05-07 17:50:42 UTC
Calithar Render
Obsidian Armada
#40 - 2012-05-07 17:54:58 UTC
I'll throw my hat in here, too.

In my opinion, the UI should be CCP's #1 priority. For me and those I try to get to play: it's terrible. This isn't hyperbole. It's actually terrible, for the reasons already mentioned.

- A total right-click fest.
- Far too many unnecessary steps to get any information, ever try to check market prices on 100-200 items in a hangar?
- Minimal feedback: leading to a plastic/stale feel. For all the clicking you're doing, the UI inspires no confidence
- Hideous overview that takes half your screen with elongated station names/fields that ought to be truncated intelligently

All of these "expansions" on top of the fundamentally poor UI have been baby steps in the wrong direction. The entire UI needs to be stripped out of this client, and replaced.