Market Discussions

Jake, in order for Darth to understand that you have shot down an idea you must also insult the person who forwarded said idea. Strange, I know, but it's just how his hearing works.

Seriously, though, it is well worth remembering how badly wrong banks have gone in the past and dwelling continuously on the negative aspects. What is missing is any good justification for their existence (contra the premise of this thread) and whilst abstract discussions are certainly interesting and of considerable value in and of themselves, so far as they appear to be validating the central premise of the OP they can be potentially dangerous themselves. So, a modicum of name-calling might be necessary just to clearly frame the evolution of the discussion. Taking the list you just gave, there is obviously nothing there that suggests there is any need at all for banks in eve and it is well-worth making that point emphatically since it might escape the notice of a casual reader who sees only detailed discussion of how banks might, hypothetically, work.

Edit - Also, 5 and 6 on your pro list are baaad ideas

Edit2 - To expand on that last point, 5 would effectively remove scamming as no one would deal with non anti-scam accounts (no rational actor anyway). 6 requires a set up something like a bank and suffers from all the weaknesses. There is also, by Hexxx's testament, insufficient demand for it within a framework that would not be guaranteed to lose money.

ROFL

those are all terrible ideas except #4

they betray both a juvenile understanding of the nature of interactions in Eve and complete lack of awareness of what has been tried before in terms of financial institutions

i'll spend my lunch hour banging something quick out for you guys, so you have the option of expending your commendable enthusiasm on something remotely useful that is grounded in actual knowledge about the nature and history of financial institutions in eve

whether you choose to take advantage of that and actually try to innovate or just continue to circle jerk each other about purple unicorns is your call

Hey, I've been nice.

If this was just the dynamic duo of hex and secnes, where i think there is no hope of anything positive ever emerging, i'd just be slamming cocks in doors with my usual charm and panache.

If these are just eager young minds pointing in the wrong direction, then i'll take an hour of my life and try and change their minds for the better

IMO, this is the only thing that will get anything serious off the ground, and although rather crude and crass about it, Darth is correct that what we discuss will likely never happen.

That however does not discount the usefulness of the academic hypothetical debate. May not be very useful for Eve, but provides entertainment. So I hope when and if any purple unicorns do come, puns intended, their horns and other phallic like appendages are pointed in the proper directions. ;)

Darth --

Before this thread heads the way of the red herring, I just wanted to make a couple of personal opinions regarding the conceptual idea of a bank with regards to your comments:

Any time you invest ISK in anything (ships, bonds, IPOS, loans, banks) you are taking a risk. As is typical in eve, potential reward scales with the risk involved. Your 2.5 billion Tengu CAN net you some nice killmails, or a steady stream of bounty income. The risk associated with any purchase made is entirely dependant on two things:

A) Your willingness to take the risk
B) Other player's motives

It's on B where most of the 'tepidity' of your response to the idea of a Bank. EBANK ran fine until one player's motives changed, taking the money, and leaving the institute to implode in on itself. If that had not happened, and assuming that another player wouldn't have taken that place at a later date I think EBANK would still be around. The plain and simple truth is this: It's business model worked.

Collosal amounts of Risk are taken every day in every corner of the galaxy. Every time a corp hires a new player to join their ranks, they are taking the risk that they are a spy, one of which could comprise an entire coalition (with asset values far exceeding anything that a single, bank entity could hope to amass).

What reasonable security measures are in place now protecting bond-fillers and investors of other ilk? The answer: None. But people STILL continue to maintain a healthy bond and loan market DESPITE the complete lack of 'insurance' (for lack of a better term) on said investments.

I'd say your purple-flying-unicorn exists already in that form, moreover, I'd go to say that that unicorn isn't large enough as it is.

Despite a massive amount of ISK existing within EVE, how often that ISK is moved (e.g. it's velocity) has remained stable. A bank could facilitate a very healthy amount of monetary velocity through deposits and withdrawals alone, putting aside any potential investments that It could make with it's available funds.

That's good because if you made it two paragraphs further things would have really got ugly.

I have had my successes and my failures. I also make a point of learning from my failures. If you fear failure (as you seem to), then you will never move forward. Perhaps it's comforting to you; not taking risks, not putting your name on the line. You risk far more in proposing a new idea then you do in criticizing one...which I'm willing to bet is why you haven't suggested a single new idea. Likewise, putting your reputation on the line for something you believe in isn't something we'll be seeing soon either.

Criticism is safe; trying something new isn't.

...and here's the entitlement.



Not sure if this guy would agree with you

If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it. ~Albert Einstein

Oh ****, dethroned by an albert einstein quote.

The value comes from the challenge and refinement of ideas. As someone in the very process of working with 'crazy ideas", they're honestly a dime a dozen. It's the ones where people question and challenge; where they assume they're wrong, biased, the result of exuberance, the result of greed, the result of misplaced hope; and attack those ideas, keeping only that which stands up to scrutiny.

So again, I'm offering to take your effort and enthusiasm and point in a better direction, a direction based on experience and refinement, or you can just go on repeating the same old mistakes that have been hashed through already.

Your call.

Acerbic advice delivered on a plate of ego, is rarely considered.

P.S. Do you. did you have an alt named gooumound or something like that back in ... 2008-2009?