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Drone Regions - Won't they still be the "worst" space in EVE?
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Daten Kalkonen
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2012-03-15 00:42:57 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
none of those are major problems compared to the problems it fixes



Problems it fixes:

Russians can make less Supers (Not even a real problem anyways).
Makes mining more profitable.

Problems it creates:

More inflation.
Higher mineral prices (which increase the prices of everything else in the game).
Ruins the entire point of the Drone Regions and makes them less unique.
Easier to bot.

Organize and Agitate! 
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#22 - 2012-03-15 00:59:48 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:
While it might not be as straight up as the other null-sec regions, I'm really not under the impression the Russians&co are really suffering under the fact they get drone-poo instead of bounties. So 'worst regions'... ?.

UAxdeath and Krutoj rode into CSM office on the platform of removing drone compounds from the game, something their constituents seem all for. Drone region life is great for the alliance supercapital manufacturer, or the guy who rats in something with a jump drive, but hellish for the rank and file.


Ok so it's different from the other null-sec regions. Even if it's worse, it's still not a bad thing. Envy, strife, greed, these are the things that drive EVE. The more difference and inequality in null-sec, hell ANYWHERE in Eve, the better!

And with the amount of supercaps the Russians can swing around, they could probably take a 'better' region if they really hate dronepoo so much. It'll be akin to the numerous waves of conquerors that invaded Europe from the east, only to settle down and be invaded themselves in turn. Twisted

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2012-03-15 01:10:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Tobiaz wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:
While it might not be as straight up as the other null-sec regions, I'm really not under the impression the Russians&co are really suffering under the fact they get drone-poo instead of bounties. So 'worst regions'... ?.

UAxdeath and Krutoj rode into CSM office on the platform of removing drone compounds from the game, something their constituents seem all for. Drone region life is great for the alliance supercapital manufacturer, or the guy who rats in something with a jump drive, but hellish for the rank and file.


Ok so it's different from the other null-sec regions. Even if it's worse, it's still not a bad thing. Envy, strife, greed, these are the things that drive EVE. The more difference and inequality in null-sec, hell ANYWHERE in Eve, the better!

And with the amount of supercaps the Russians can swing around, they could probably take a 'better' region if they really hate dronepoo so much. It'll be akin to the numerous waves of conquerors that invaded Europe from the east, only to settle down and be invaded themselves in turn. Twisted
Yes welcome to 2010 when Dominion came out.

Now while there's no problem inherently in regions being of unequal value, the nature of drone space introduces deep problems to EVE as a whole (like mining, mineral saturation, logistics, manufacturing, etc) that can't be justified simply for 'change for change's sake'. Nobody's happy with the current of affairs, even those like UAxDeath who have profited from the status quo more then anyone.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2012-03-15 01:13:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
Daten Kalkonen wrote:

Problems it creates:

Easier to bot.

yes botting in the drone regions must be a terribly difficult problem as it is right now
god help us if some russian does the impossible and programs a bot that can run in drone space
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-03-15 01:19:29 UTC
I think it's funny that so many people still buy into the whole "drone regions suxxor" thing. Maybe it's because there is no NPC drone region space and not many people have had a chance to live there but I have lived in the drone lands once it was released and through a few drone mineral rebalances and always found it to be very profitable.

Yes you do have to spend 30mins to anchor GSCs in a few ratting systems and haul minerals once every week or so but that's really easy with the cov ops transport ships. Then you sell the minerals/alloys to your corp for like 5-10% under Jita prices and since your corp has so many minerals you get cheap t1 ships. Whenever I calculated the mineral price per drone BS I always ended up making more isk than in other regions. Faction drone spawns tend to suck but I never got lucky with those anyways.

Is the change to bounties going to open up a swarm of people invading or leaving the drone lands? Nah, it'll be business as usual.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#26 - 2012-03-15 01:20:44 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:
While it might not be as straight up as the other null-sec regions, I'm really not under the impression the Russians&co are really suffering under the fact they get drone-poo instead of bounties. So 'worst regions'... ?.

UAxdeath and Krutoj rode into CSM office on the platform of removing drone compounds from the game, something their constituents seem all for. Drone region life is great for the alliance supercapital manufacturer, or the guy who rats in something with a jump drive, but hellish for the rank and file.


Ok so it's different from the other null-sec regions. Even if it's worse, it's still not a bad thing. Envy, strife, greed, these are the things that drive EVE. The more difference and inequality in null-sec, hell ANYWHERE in Eve, the better!

And with the amount of supercaps the Russians can swing around, they could probably take a 'better' region if they really hate dronepoo so much. It'll be akin to the numerous waves of conquerors that invaded Europe from the east, only to settle down and be invaded themselves in turn. Twisted
Yes welcome to 2010 when Dominion came out.

Now while there's no problem inherently in regions being of unequal value, the nature of drone space introduces deep problems to EVE as a whole (like mining, mineral saturation, logistics, manufacturing, etc) that can't be justified simply for 'change for change's sake'. Nobody's happy with the current of affairs, even those like UAxDeath who have profited from the status quo more then anyone.


Sadly, changing minerals to bounties won't fix any of these, deeper underlying problems. But it's typical for CCP to smack symptoms with a big hammer, causing all kinds of new cracks, while never communicating about any of this with the community.

It's like the haven't learned anything of the mess they made last year.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2012-03-15 01:45:17 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:


Sadly, changing minerals to bounties won't fix any of these, deeper underlying problems. .

Actually it will. Drone compounds are themselves a deep, underlying problem.
Adunh Slavy
#28 - 2012-03-15 03:00:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Adunh Slavy
Daten Kalkonen wrote:

More inflation.
Higher mineral prices (which increase the prices of everything else in the game).
Ruins the entire point of the Drone Regions and makes them less unique.
Easier to bot.


The inflation already exists. Reducing the supply of minerals from drone regions allows inflation in Eve to fulfill its role, to create incentive to do something else other than shoot rats. Removing loot and changing salvage to another mechanic would go even further in allowing normal market forces to assert them selves.

The opportunity cost of shooting rats is being subsidized by too many things dropping from rats. Nerfing drone poo is a good step in the right direction.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#29 - 2012-03-15 04:57:54 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:


Sadly, changing minerals to bounties won't fix any of these, deeper underlying problems. .

Actually it will. Drone compounds are themselves a deep, underlying problem.


Switching drone poo to bounties simply replaces one deep underlying problem with a slightly shallower problem. ISK faucet vs mineral faucet, I would pick the mineral faucet. Ideally, drone poo would reprocess to items used for drone related mods, rigs & implants.

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Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#30 - 2012-03-31 10:56:35 UTC
Having been in both regions, Drones without poo will make drone space pretty boring. Not that that matters to most, but it will suck somewhat for us that are here. T2 salvage is a joke compared to the possibilities of faction regions. My hope is they don't only switch the poo to bounties and be done with it.

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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#31 - 2012-04-01 21:23:05 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Daten Kalkonen wrote:
Hexus Draidin wrote:

Getting rid of drone goo to bandage the mineral prices feels like transferring a bandage from one wound to another, ultimately not solving anything so much as just moving the problem.



This is the problem with the "solution" CCP is offering. It doesn't really fix anything, it just makes ships and items cost more through inflation. Plus it just makes mining bots more profitable, so we can expect more with those since they're probably easier to make.


What gets me is that CCP is saying that ISK inflation is beginning to become a problem & what do they do next: add another ISK faucet ON TOP OF DELETING A MINERAL FAUCET
Its like the US government turning off the oil spigots in Alaska & Texas and telling people not to worry because they'll start printing more money to make up for the rise in oil's price?!?!

Talking about throwing gasoline on top of a fire to try to put it out!
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-04-01 21:46:22 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:


Sadly, changing minerals to bounties won't fix any of these, deeper underlying problems. .

Actually it will. Drone compounds are themselves a deep, underlying problem.


Switching drone poo to bounties simply replaces one deep underlying problem with a slightly shallower problem. ISK faucet vs mineral faucet, I would pick the mineral faucet. Ideally, drone poo would reprocess to items used for drone related mods, rigs & implants.

The problem with the mineral faucet is that it quickly became a super carrier factory.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2012-04-01 21:52:31 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Tobiaz wrote:


Sadly, changing minerals to bounties won't fix any of these, deeper underlying problems. .

Actually it will. Drone compounds are themselves a deep, underlying problem.


Switching drone poo to bounties simply replaces one deep underlying problem with a slightly shallower problem. ISK faucet vs mineral faucet, I would pick the mineral faucet.

That's dumb. You can't turn ISK directly into a ship. You can turn minerals into a supercapital (which is then used to grind isk and minerals with)
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#34 - 2012-04-01 21:54:47 UTC
Just heard saying that Drone regions have some of the most valuable ore belts in Eve witch is good for those building capital ships, they'll have to mine those minerals with mining barges instead of guns.

Rats get bounty, this is good. More isk directly in the pocket, how can this be bad?
Kalestra Cable
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#35 - 2012-04-01 22:17:47 UTC
The trusec is too good in the Drone regions so CCP apparently already said they'll nerf that which will take down the quality of the belts.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#36 - 2012-04-02 00:41:56 UTC
Is there any definite date for the drone bounty conversion? Will it be for the Escalation ( april 24th ) or Inferno ( May date? ) release?
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
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