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The Navy Frigates
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God's Apples
Wilderness
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#1 - 2012-03-14 02:21:58 UTC
Every player knows that with the new AF buff the navy frigates have pretty much become obsolete. The one that really suffered the most in my opinion is the firetail, though. I was using it today when it got killed by a dramiel in a close up brawl. I know I would lose this fight regardless, but it struck me how bad the firetail really is.

The Firetail

The other 3 navy frigates will destroy the firetail because it doesn't have the greatest of tanks, nor does it have much better dps than a rifter. Yes, it can go 1500 - 1600 m/s with an AB, but speed isn't the only thing that will win you a fight. The comet can get about 300 dps with its guns OH'd (All navy ships excluding the comet can OH their guns for about 2 and a half minutes) just tearing the firetail apart if it cannot leave in time. The hookbill with TD's or just a regular AB + Scram + web + MSE + invul fit will kill you as well. The slicer is so agile, unless the pilot majorly screws up you cannot sling shot it into scram range.

The Comet

The comet is an awesome ship to fly, but the enyo does everything better, besides being about 400 m/s slower. The taranis has about equal tank and dps, but can go much faster, is 8 mill cheaper (about 60% of the comet's price), and is hull tanked. The only thing that prevents the taranis from being completely badass is that it ain't vertical.

The Slicer and the Hookbill

These two have a unique role, but could always be more awesome. The hookbill is literally impossible to fit due to crap CPU and PG. The slicer is pretty baller as it stands, but could use about 5% more CPU so you can fit either a t2 point or have no CPU mod in the lows if you want something besides nanos (yes, it is an exaggeration.) These two aren't bad on the battle field, but they could use more PG/CPU to make them more competitive with the current t2 frigates.

"Hydra Reloaded are just jealous / butthurt on me / us because we can get tons of PVP action in empire while they aren't good enough to get that." - NightmareX
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-03-14 03:20:07 UTC
All I want is my Comet to have it's police colors and blinking light back :(

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
#3 - 2012-03-14 03:35:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk Magnum
The Slicer is as close to an interceptor as you'll get without getting an interceptor, and it's surprisingly hard to make a long-range tackle Crusader work as well as the Slasher.

IMO Slicer is the best small gang navy frigate still in use, and certainly the best one to solo frigate-sized opponents with. Nobody short of an interceptor can actually catch it, and it can hit a tackled target at optimal with scorch from over 23km away (rigged for that fitting.)

I've only ever used the Firetail and Slicer, and in both cases I used them as interceptors, not AFs. That might be where you're going wrong with those ships. Can't comment on the Hookbill and Comet, although from what I've seen with AF prices lately (only periodically going to Empire), the Comet at least is still cost-effective IMO. Hookbill... I dunno. Choose your targets well, I suppose. Remember it isn't supposed to be directly compared to T2 ships to begin with.

                      "LIVE FAST DIE." - traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#4 - 2012-03-14 07:59:03 UTC
I think AFs always had the slight upper hand, they had more tank and equal spank before the buff. But yes, would think twice before engaging an AF in a faction frig. Also, this is pretty much the way it should be, considering the SP investment.

Only 400m/s slower? That's pretty damn significant imo. I love my Comet to bits, and don't really care about ISK efficiency or what it can take or not- it does 347dps on heat, and I have an MWD fit that goes 5472 m/s on heat as well. This has plenty enough of :badass: for me <3

It's like a sports car, **** practicality, it's just _fun_ Cool

Dirk Magnum wrote:
IMO Slicer is the best small gang navy frigate still in use, and certainly the best one to solo frigate-sized opponents with. Nobody short of an interceptor can actually catch it, and it can hit a tackled target at optimal with scorch from over 23km away (rigged for that fitting.)


(Pssst, this is just between us then ok? The Comet is not only 300m/s faster (MWD, no nano), it's also more agile and does more dps at that range)


.
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-03-14 12:49:50 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
All I want is my Comet to have it's police colors and blinking light back :(


What's annoyed me most about that is that the new Police skin which the NPC's use have a Larson Scanner (Cylon eyes!) on the front!

What did we get?

Space camo. Erugh.
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
#6 - 2012-03-14 12:50:00 UTC
Roime wrote:
I think AFs always had the slight upper hand, they had more tank and equal spank before the buff. But yes, would think twice before engaging an AF in a faction frig. Also, this is pretty much the way it should be, considering the SP investment.

Only 400m/s slower? That's pretty damn significant imo. I love my Comet to bits, and don't really care about ISK efficiency or what it can take or not- it does 347dps on heat, and I have an MWD fit that goes 5472 m/s on heat as well. This has plenty enough of :badass: for me <3

It's like a sports car, **** practicality, it's just _fun_ Cool

Dirk Magnum wrote:
IMO Slicer is the best small gang navy frigate still in use, and certainly the best one to solo frigate-sized opponents with. Nobody short of an interceptor can actually catch it, and it can hit a tackled target at optimal with scorch from over 23km away (rigged for that fitting.)


(Pssst, this is just between us then ok? The Comet is not only 300m/s faster (MWD, no nano), it's also more agile and does more dps at that range)



(destructable DPS)
Cool

                      "LIVE FAST DIE." - traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]
Rath Kelbore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-03-14 21:26:56 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
All I want is my Comet to have it's police colors and blinking light back :(


I agree.

At OP: I'm commenting on the comet and the hookbill since I have experience with them, I haven't flown the other two.

Comet: More or less agreed, the only reason I flew them was due to the flashing blue light, and it annoyed ppl in my fleet. Other than that it's pretty much a SLIGHTLY beefier taranis without the sig bloom bonus.

The HookBill: The hookbill is fine imo. It's not obsolete to AF's, especially caldari af's. I have no issues with fitting mine, how are you trying to fit yours? Any buffs to the hookbill might make them OP no?

I plan on living forever.......so far, so good.
Korg Tronix
Mole Station Nursery
#8 - 2012-03-14 21:42:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Korg Tronix
Rath Kelbore wrote:

The HookBill: The hookbill is fine imo. It's not obsolete to AF's, especially caldari af's. I have no issues with fitting mine, how are you trying to fit yours? Any buffs to the hookbill might make them OP no?


I love the hookbill but other than speed the Hawk does everything better imo. The only reason I still use my Hookbills regularly is because they can get in Minor Plexes and are great at killing slicers

As to the OP, the problem I find when people come to fitting Firetails is everyone pigeonholes them into the same fits as the standard dram/jags i.e. Shield and then wonder why it doesnt perform as well as them. Personally for scram range fights I found the armour fit to be best, web scram and td mean that most turret boats will have trouble with you and because of the natural speed it can dictate range on most ships that aren't 90% webbers or dram/hookbills

Evil: If I were creating the world I wouldn't mess about with butterflies and daffodils. I would have started with lasers, eight o'clock, Day One! [zaps one of his minions accidentally, minion screams]
Meditril
Scandium Defense and Security Inc.
Sleeper Protocol
#9 - 2012-03-15 09:31:47 UTC
Except for the Firetail all Navy Frigates are very well inline with the new AF. AF need more skills are more expensive and damn slower and less agile than the Navy Frigates. So the fact that they can tank a bit more and do more damage is well balanced.

The Firetail is completely overshadowed by the Damiel. It has much lower dps than Dramiel and it is slower... this makes no sense at all. I have no problems with the Firetail beeing weak and fragile but then it should be at least faster than Dramiel or as a different gimmik... give it a very small signature.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#10 - 2012-03-15 10:52:39 UTC
Hookbills are only impossible to fit if you are incompetent.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
#11 - 2012-03-15 11:07:51 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Hookbills are only impossible to fit if you are incompetent.

^ Hookbills are p cool.

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-03-15 13:41:28 UTC
I can only comment on the Slicer. It is still very good as a long range interceptor. It could use a little more CPU so the third high can be used (whereas it's left open usually) but it's fine in its current state.

A slicer fit as a brawler is less common and suboptimal compared to other brawling frigs.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-03-15 15:01:12 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
All I want is my Comet to have it's police colors and blinking light back :(



This.
Griznatch
Distinguished Gentleman's Boating Club
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#14 - 2012-03-15 18:58:41 UTC
Hookbill best bill.

I used to have a clever sig but I lost it.
GreenSeed
#15 - 2012-03-15 21:04:31 UTC
t1 --> navy --> t2 -> pirate


if anything some pirate ships need an upgrade to compete with the new t2, Navy is fine IMHO.
Abbadon21
Ignotis Imperium
Usurper.
#16 - 2012-03-15 21:34:04 UTC
Comet is still a great ship and the Firetail has tons of potential.

The biggest problem I have with the Firetail is the low DPS. That's what got me killed recently, not enough DPS to drop the target before the rest of the blob got to us.

Learn How PRO Players Make Billions of ISK and Dominate PVP: http://www.EVEProGuides.com
Itoliog
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-03-16 19:40:50 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
All I want is my Comet to have it's police colors and blinking light back :(


Vote up. -- CSM watching this?
Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-03-21 18:18:10 UTC
Luba Cibre wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
Hookbills are only impossible to fit if you are incompetent.

^ Hookbills are p cool.


They fight dargons and doesn't afraid of anything

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-03-21 23:29:42 UTC
Itoliog wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
All I want is my Comet to have it's police colors and blinking light back :(


Vote up. -- CSM watching this?


Hope so because no need for police in space skins, Gallente Camo paint job for a Gallente Navy ship seems good for me.
Maybe the blinking light back yup but not the NYP horrible paint job it had before.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#20 - 2012-03-22 00:45:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
Firetail is a pseudo-ceptor. In fact, it's pretty much identical in speed to the Stiletto while being tankier and, more able to do damage. I'd use it as medium tackle for small gangs with a scram or dualprop + scram.

Comet is WAY faster than the Enyo. 1276 m/s to 905 m/s with AB, or a 41% speed difference. It goes from "slower than only the slowest of other AB AFs" to "Faster than any AB ship that isn't an AF". It also aligns in 2.85s base compared to 4.3s base...again, a huge difference. Additionally, light drones are more reliable DPS than blasters (comet has 3 with a backup flight, Enyo has 1 with no backup). For extra douchebaggary you can have a backup flight of light ECM for GTFOing.


Ultimately, the navy frigates are supposed to be a mix between inties and AFs. AFs are way better in a straight up gank/tank fight, but they're really, really slow for frigates. I think they strike a pretty good balance.
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