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MD Borrowers and Trustees – A Resource for Investors

Author
Block Ukx
Winnie Blues and VB Crew
#41 - 2012-03-27 17:52:08 UTC
Jake Andarius wrote:

Do you have links to specific bonds that you have done on the MD forums? This list is only compiling MD bonds where the investors are public information.



List of bonds for the MD can be found here I acted as a third-party trustee for the PFBond and for the SBB Bond. I currently held in-trust about 47 B in non-BSAC shares.


The BSAC Stock Exchange does not release investor's information. Only the fund manager has access to the list of shareholders.


Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
#42 - 2012-03-28 01:44:21 UTC
Block Ukx wrote:
List of bonds for the MD can be found here I acted as a third-party trustee for the PFBond and for the SBB Bond. I currently held in-trust about 47 B in non-BSAC shares.


The BSAC Stock Exchange does not release investor's information. Only the fund manager has access to the list of shareholders.


I would love to add to the list any bonds that are conducted through the MD forums. However, I am currently not adding anything that was not conducted through the MD forums. The reasoning for this is that, in a private bond, the details of who invested and how much they invested is not public information; it is only based on testimony of the bond issuer. Although I might change how I am constructing the list in the future to reflect a broader range of investments, adding non-public bonds is a can of worms that I am unwilling to work through at this point in time.
Block Ukx
Winnie Blues and VB Crew
#43 - 2012-03-28 02:08:11 UTC
Jake Andarius wrote:
... The reasoning for this is that, in a private bond, the details of who invested and how much they invested is not public information; it is only based on testimony of the bond issuer.



The bonds were public and issued via the stock exchange. In some of the bonds I acted as a third-party, so the information is not only based on the testimony of the bond issuer.


Even if it is posted on the MD, you still rely on the testimony of the bond issuer. Alts can easily be used to inflate the bond.








Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
#44 - 2012-03-28 02:49:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jake Andarius
Block Ukx wrote:
The bonds were public and issued via the stock exchange. In some of the bonds I acted as a third-party, so the information is not only based on the testimony of the bond issuer.


Even if it is posted on the MD, you still rely on the testimony of the bond issuer. Alts can easily be used to inflate the bond.


I would like to make it clear that I am not calling in to question your stock exchange, third party services, or bonds. If Chribba himself asked me to list some of his private third party services, I would politely tell him that the list does not include private transactions. I am trying to place myself out of the position of being the one who determines which private bonds get listed and which do not. That is, I am making this list in a way that readers do not have to trust my judgment. That is why I am only compiling bonds in which all parties (borrower, lender, trustee) are public information, and the amount of the bond is public information. Although sometimes private parties are included, MD Bonds largely fulfill the aforementioned criteria. Also, it is true that alts can (and might have) inflated bonds on this list, but there is no stricter method that I believe I can reasonably apply to correct for that.

Like I said, however, this is MD's list more than it is my list. If the general consensus is that it would be better to compile it differently, then I am happy to oblige, so long as it would take a reasonable amount of time.

Note to myself: KaraflasXAM - 200 Million (Bond 1: 200m)
Block Ukx
Winnie Blues and VB Crew
#45 - 2012-03-28 03:07:35 UTC
Jake Andarius wrote:
This resource is a list of currently active MD borrowers and trustees.



BSAC is currently an active borrower and trustee. There is no mention in your opening statement about your public disclosure requirement.


As your initial post stands you make it sound as if BSAC is no longer acive. I don't want people to get the wrong impression.




Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
#46 - 2012-03-28 03:14:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jake Andarius
Block Ukx wrote:
BSAC is currently an active borrower and trustee. There is no mention in your opening statement about your public disclosure requirement.


As your initial post stands you make it sound as if BSAC is no longer acive. I don't want people to get the wrong impression.


I have updated the opening statement to more accurately reflect how this list is compiled. Some of this language was pulled from the discussion that Kara and I had later down the thread:

Quote:
This resource is a list of currently active, public MD borrowers and trustees. The aim of this resource is to educate potential lenders of the bond market's current state.

Since only public investments can be accurately and easily verified, this list is limited to public information on the MD forums.


Again, I am sorry to exclude anyone. No doubt many of the people listed have made private transactions way beyond what is currently listed. But there are reasonable limitations in compiling a list of bonds.
Block Ukx
Winnie Blues and VB Crew
#47 - 2012-03-28 03:39:46 UTC
Jake Andarius wrote:

I have updated the opening statement to more accurately reflect how this list is compiled.



Your opening statement "Since only public investments can be accurately and easily verified" is false. You seem to beleive that if it is posted in MD it must be true. Besides, what good is this list if the people listed are no longer active?




Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2012-03-28 03:47:47 UTC
Everyone in the list is a potential scammer waiting for the "Big payoff" that will give them 15min of fame as the "Massive scam rocks world of EVE" news hit the gaming news sites.
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
#49 - 2012-03-28 06:27:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jake Andarius
Block Ukx wrote:
Your opening statement "Since only public investments can be accurately and easily verified" is false. You seem to beleive that if it is posted in MD it must be true.


The implication behind that statement is that a reader can see a bond amount beside a player's name on the list and click the link to verify that, prima facie, unique characters are stating that they are investing the amount of the listed bond. That statement is not meant to imply that a reader can verify that characters are unconnected to the bond issuer, or actually invested the stated amount.

I am willing to take suggestions on how I could improve the list. Other posters will hopefully respond to generate a consensus.
Shar Tegral
#50 - 2012-03-28 10:33:43 UTC
Don't let Block influence you much. He's still waiting to convict me of fraud in connection with EBank.
Cedo Nulli wrote:
Everyone in the list is a potential scammer waiting for the "Big payoff" that will give them 15min of fame as the "Massive scam rocks world of EVE" news hit the gaming news sites.
This is actually why I've kept all my bonds and activities small. Not because I'm tempted but simply because many of you would be thus disbelieving that I would not be. (5isk if you followed that one!)
Dethmourne Silvermane
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2012-03-28 21:58:45 UTC
FWIW I'm -pretty- sure my current outstanding debts are public. I'll throw out the current data when I get home as a reference.

Interested Party (TM)

Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
#52 - 2012-03-31 04:44:41 UTC
Version 1.5
- Changed language to indicate public nature of compiled offerings
- Added Kei Darker - Bond 11
- Added Gatan Hahran - Bond 1
- Added KaraflasXAM - Bond 1
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#53 - 2012-03-31 06:31:25 UTC
Cedo Nulli wrote:
Everyone in the list is a potential scammer waiting for the "Big payoff" that will give them 15min of fame as the "Massive scam rocks world of EVE" news hit the gaming news sites.


No.
David Forge
GameOn Inc.
#54 - 2012-03-31 16:15:45 UTC
Cedo Nulli wrote:
Everyone in the list is a potential scammer waiting for the "Big payoff" that will give them 15min of fame as the "Massive scam rocks world of EVE" news hit the gaming news sites.


Can I give you 10 billion to delete this post?
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
#55 - 2012-04-01 01:29:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jake Andarius
Version 1.6
- Added Asura07 - Bond 1
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
#56 - 2012-04-02 18:41:04 UTC
Version 1.7
- Changed language to reflect that some of the bonds in the uncollateralized borrowers histories were collateralized. Added indicator (*) to make those bonds more recognizable. I might have missed some, so please tell me if you notice any. = D
- Added Stealing Honest - Bond 1, Bond 2, Bond 3, Bond 4, IPO 1, Bond 5, Bond 6, Trust 1, Trust 2, Bond 7, Bond 8, Bond 9, Bond 10, Bond 11, Bond 12, Bond 13
- Added Golkan - Bond 4
- Added Lee Anderson - Bond 1, Bond 2
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
#57 - 2012-04-02 19:27:58 UTC
This is one of the cooler efforts that I have seen on here lately. It very nearly motivates me to put together a business plan in order to join the list.

I agree, we should get it stickied.

Also, +10 points for responding maturely to criticism.
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
#58 - 2012-04-03 06:13:12 UTC
OllieNorth wrote:
This is one of the cooler efforts that I have seen on here lately. It very nearly motivates me to put together a business plan in order to join the list.

I agree, we should get it stickied.

Also, +10 points for responding maturely to criticism.


I am extremely flattered. It makes me really happy to know that people are supportive of this list. Comments like this make me want to keep actively updating! Big smile
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
#59 - 2012-04-03 23:32:16 UTC
Version 1.8
- Added Grendell - Trust 6
- Added Barakach - Bond 1, Bond 2
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
#60 - 2012-04-06 03:14:09 UTC
Version 1.9
- Added Lesath Scorpii - Bond 1
- Added Chevalleis - Bond 1