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MD Borrowers and Trustees – A Resource for Investors

Author
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
#1 - 2012-03-14 02:11:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jake Andarius
EDIT: List no longer maintained here. It is now maintained on EVElopedia.

This resource is a list of currently active, public MD borrowers and trustees. The aim of this resource is to educate potential lenders of the bond market's current state.

Since public investments can be easily verified, this list is limited to investments on MD forums. Active links to the individual's histories can be found beside their names. Additionally, the maximum, uncollateralized, public ISK debt that the individual has had in the past is listed beside their name. Borrowers who only have collateralized bonds have not been compiled as they do not require the same burden of faith on the borrower; however, uncollateralized borrowers have their full bond history recorded, including collateralized bonds. In addition, trustees of collateralized loans have been compiled as they require a burden of faith.

Suggestions for further edits (i.e. corrections and additions) are fully welcomed to help grow this list for as long as it may be updated. If you have suggestions for additions, please provide me with links. It allows me to make corrections much quicker. Relevant discussion of the bond market is also welcomed and encouraged.

Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
#2 - 2012-03-14 02:11:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jake Andarius
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
#3 - 2012-03-14 02:11:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Jake Andarius

Special thanks to VV, who was kind enough to provide names of several currently active and well-respected MD members at my request. That sparked the idea for this more quantifiable list of currently active MD borrowers.

Past data on MD Bond Markets may be found here: 2009 IPOs and Bonds, History of MD #1, History of MD #2, History of MD #3, History of MD #4, History of MD #5

* Fully or partially collateralized bond

Disclaimer: This list is not an endorsement of any borrowers or trustees. Lenders invest at their own risk.
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-03-14 11:22:12 UTC
I also have a stellar credit rating with my own alts.

This is a valuable service, and not dressed up horse-****.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#5 - 2012-03-14 11:47:16 UTC
So you also added 3rd party / collateral in the list?

Because I have secured >> 100B myself. > 100B just in the charity.
Lecherito
Swag Incorporated
#6 - 2012-03-14 12:41:01 UTC
This thread shocks the conscience; consider deleting.

Best,

-L
Magnu Stormhawk
#7 - 2012-03-14 13:07:52 UTC
Addition:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12052&find=unread

Also, whilst it is a useful resource in general, i'm not sure commenting on credit rating is really appropriate, especially if all you are taking is the maximum someone has been trusted with 'at one point in time'. It could be misleading. I would at least, by way of a disclaimer, encourage lenders reading this thread to review those offerings linked (which they should do anyway) for further details. Either that or dont talk about credit ratings at all.

For example - you have Liberty Eternal listed there right after Chribba and Grendell, purely because of the size of his bond. That 35b bond could be argued to be a failed bond, it was subject to an forced restructure on the part of the borrower, and it came under heavy criticism. That is more important to a credit rating than the size of the bond.

Also I note you have Proton Power listed with the 69b IPO, but only 25b stated as the max borrowing.

Proton Power
BLOPSEC
#8 - 2012-03-14 13:15:20 UTC
Your numbers are off some. I think my last IPO was about 70bil as mentioned above, I have also had many other IPO's/Bonds, some recorded some not.

I have also been trusted with over 500bil isk in unlocked, no collateral T2 BPO's. You are correct in that I currently hold 25bil Isk though via private bonds @ 2.5% per month.
TomHorn
Horn Brigade
#9 - 2012-03-14 13:56:36 UTC
Think this could be useful resource for people thinking of investing in someone. I wouldnt mind be added to the list.

Ive run a 3.5 billion isk bond no collaterall for 3months at 3% bond started on the old forums and finished on the new ones

http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1545715 start bond

http://eve-search.com/thread/17416-1/page/1#3 Finish

Kara Roideater
#10 - 2012-03-14 14:12:45 UTC
Some of the posters above have mentioned collateral holding and access to unsecured isk but any of this that takes place privately can't really be logged usefully as it lacks confirmation. However, if you are interested in public data you should add in any publicly logged collateral holding that took place while public debt was also held if you want to get the maximum publicly reported amount that each individual has held at any one time without scamming.

Regardless of this, your figures for me (RAW23) are a bit off. The 20bil bond you list also publicly tracks a further 20bil unsecured loan running at the same time (see post 71, see also the audit VV did which confirms 40bil of outstanding debt). Whilst that bond ran I also acted as third-party holding the collateral for another bond that started in December 2010 (c. 15bil iirc). I can't remember the guy's name but I'm sure you could find it if you want. My max publicly tracked exposure, then, was in the region of 55bil (and I also held an additional c. 15bil off the boards but this can't really be counted, nor the access to 50bil more of other peoples' assets in a cooperatively run business, although the latter could probably be confirmed by VV who audited me at that time).

I also ran another 40bil bond back in early 2010 (started at c. 25bil and then had an expansion phase), initially for an insurance fraud battleship destruction business when that was still viable, before diversifying into a bunch of other stuff. That came between the second and third bonds you list.

The 10bil bond you list also increased to 20bil in c. Dec. 2009 when flakeys offered me an extra 10bil unsecured.
Kara Roideater
#11 - 2012-03-14 14:15:09 UTC
Magnu Stormhawk wrote:


Also, whilst it is a useful resource in general, i'm not sure commenting on credit rating is really appropriate, especially if all you are taking is the maximum someone has been trusted with 'at one point in time'.


I would also strongly agree with this. Having a resource of max previous exposure is very useful for lenders but it should be presented as an information resource and not as a credit rating resource.
Kara Roideater
#12 - 2012-03-14 14:26:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Kara Roideater
Additional people to add:

Tornsoul: 100bil continuously running in BMBE for years (ongoing) plus some big additional BMBE bonds in 2010 (totaling another c. 150-200bil iirc). When I asked at the time about maximum previous public exposure I believe the figure given was c. 310bil as, in addition to the 100bil in BMBE she had held three Titans for the aborted triple Titan lottery.

I suspect Shar Tegral has also done some public collateral holding recently, so she may be worth looking up.

VV on the c. 100bil held in the plex for good drive is publicly tracked but may be a little problematic as CCP had an anti-scam policy on plex for good which might have made theft difficult or impossible. However, I can say that I've offered VV 100bil unsecured a few times.

You might also want to say something about Block's mineral business but since it has no transparency it is impossible to know whether the claimed figures are accurate. I think, if you go back through some of his threads, he may have eventually stated what percentage of the company was owned by the directors (and thus should not be counted as public isk) but I'm not sure how much luck you'll have coming to a reasonable figure on that business. I spent months trying to get to precisely the figure you're after but it was like trying to squeeze blood out of a stone.

Edwin Rothbard has held quite a bit too (I forget how much but check his thread).
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
#13 - 2012-03-14 14:51:34 UTC
Just a heads up, but 4-5 overlapped together so it would actually be 470b if you added both 4 and 5.Blink

◄[♥]►3rd Party Service◄[♥]►

♥ Securing Peace of mind ♥

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#14 - 2012-03-14 16:19:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Kara Roideater wrote:
However, I can say that I've offered VV 100bil unsecured a few times.


I think I am the first and only EvE player who did not immediately accept being handed 100B unsecured. Cool
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#15 - 2012-03-14 17:23:10 UTC
Jake Andarius wrote:
Proton Power - 25 Billion (IPO 1: 69b), (IPO 2: 49b), (Bond 1: 25b), (Bond 2: 10b)

FYI. Proton Power market aliases:

* Chris Smith
* eVaLF
* Aandaan, but this character was returned to the original owner about 3 years ago.
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
#16 - 2012-03-14 19:45:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jake Andarius
Thank you for all of the positive feedback! Many of you pointed out that, even with the defining of “credit rating,” it might be too misleading, so I decided to omit the use of credit rating entirely.

RAW23 wrote:
Some of the posters above have mentioned collateral holding and access to unsecured isk but any of this that takes place privately can't really be logged usefully as it lacks confirmation.

This is really informing the limitations on how far I want to go in compiling this list. For instance, while we all trust that Chribba has held much greater amounts than those I have listed in private third party transactions, most people are not going to believe other unknown parties on their word that they have held private investments. Since only public investments can be accurately and easily verified, everyone that is listed is going to be limited to publicly verifiable information.

Also, if you have suggestions for additions, please provide me with links to the additions. It really cuts down on the time that I have to go searching around for the additions of which you already know the location. (I am currently working on searching through EVE forums archives and compiling Vaerah Vahrokha's trusts).

Version 1.1
- Changed title language from “MD Borrower Credit Ratings” to “Borrowers and Trustees of MD – A Resource for Investors.”
- Changed language in description away from “credit ratings.”
- Changed language from “3rd Party” to “Trustee.”
- Added aliases for Proton Power and RAW23.
- Corrected Proton Power's maximum, uncollateralized ISK debt from “25b” to “69b.”
- Corrected Grendell's maximum, uncollateralized ISK debt from “350b” to “470b.”
- Corrected RAW23's maximum, uncollateralized ISK debt from “20b” to “40b."
- Corrected two of RAW23's bond numbers due to further investments from flakeys that were originally missed.
- Added Mickov brat.
- Added TomHorn.
- Added TornSoul.
- Added Edwin Rothbard.
Tekota
The Freighter Factory
#17 - 2012-03-14 20:14:52 UTC
Confirming I thrusted Raw23 for 1.3b as a collateral holder a while back. Which in the grand scheme of thread so far is rather small fry I know.

Ms Hellfury wins the prize for best "gief isk naow" post netting (and returning) three billion iskicles for much "thrust you long time" rep.
Liberty Eternal
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2012-03-14 21:34:04 UTC
Interesting list, thanks Jake Cool


Magnu Stormhawk wrote:


For example - you have Liberty Eternal listed there right after Chribba and Grendell, purely because of the size of his bond. That 35b bond could be argued to be a failed bond, it was subject to an forced restructure on the part of the borrower, and it came under heavy criticism. That is more important to a credit rating than the size of the bond.




Yep, very true and in retrospect I realise I deserved the criticism. However, without digressing from the thread please allow me to point out that the early closure [while flawed] did contain a compensation offer for full interest, although it wasn't taken up.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#19 - 2012-03-14 21:34:08 UTC
Kara Roideater wrote:

VV on the c. 100bil held in the plex for good drive is publicly tracked but may be a little problematic as CCP had an anti-scam policy on plex for good which might have made theft difficult or impossible.


Actually it's extremely easy to scam it without being caught. It's why I posted a video of me NOT scamming it. I won't say more else dishonest minds could be tempted.
Jake Andarius
Andarius Trading Corp.
#20 - 2012-03-17 19:16:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jake Andarius
Version 1.2
- Added Vaerah Vahrokha
- Added Lauren Hellfury
- Added RAW23's Trust 1: 1.3b
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