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Is the Titan nerf announced for April CCP kowtowing to GOONs?

Author
Takashi Kaeda
Perkone
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-03-13 20:44:49 UTC
I love how Titan owners and their hanger-ons are trying to paint this as the work of a few GOON DEVS.

As if a change like this didn't have a majority support among both new and longtime players and developers alike.


Remember kids, just say no to Titans Online.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#22 - 2012-03-13 20:59:29 UTC
NERFing of anything seems to be a bad thing IMHO is a tool of last resorts. I think this sort of complaint from those getting nerfed is justified:

"Well now that DEVs NERF BAT has gone and taken raiden's only defense GOONs should be able to steam roll them. CCP knows the titans were working just fine for when you were outnumbered. Now Raiden will loose all their space unless by some miracle goons stop fielding 800 man fleets. Well time to see how long before half of eve is blue once again. This is similar to the DRF but a little bit worse "

Those that trained for years to get a titan are putting them up for sale in droves. I suspect that ALOT of titan accounts will just unsub; they also may just quit because all the trainning they put into such ships are wasted & they won't get reimbursed for the time but I suspect they are so addicted to the game you are going to hear some incredible howls by bittervets.
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Valentyn3
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#23 - 2012-03-13 21:08:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Valentyn3
If you seriously quit over 1 class of ship being brought in line with the system of combat they designed for the game then you must not have enjoyed the game all the much anyway. Roll

Was there this much ragequit when they went from instagib doom cannons to deathstars because that felt like a bigger change than this.

I don't always use hax. But when I do, it's because I'm an NPC.. http://i.imgur.com/PUZou.jpg

Senorita putatita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-03-13 21:09:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Senorita putatita
It seems like it's turning into a pure numbers game and less about the skill points and time/ISK invested into superior ships. If a player is willing to invest the time=$ and ISK to field ships as expensive as SC's and Titans then why not give them an advantage equal to the risk they are taking Pew Pewing and maybe loosing these ships.

I already have carrier and Dread. Whats my endgame now? Was working towards Nyx then Erebus. Now where do I spend my money? Cry
Valentyn3
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#25 - 2012-03-13 21:14:41 UTC
Senorita putatita wrote:
It seems like it's turning into a pure numbers game and less about the skill points and time/ISK invested into superior ships. If a player is willing to invest the time=$ and ISK to field ships as expensive as SC's and Titans then why now give them an advantage equal to the risk they are taking Pew Pewing and maybe loosing these ships.

I already have carrier and Dread. Whats my endgame now? Was working towards Nyx then Erebus. Now where do I spend my money? Cry


Better POS? Invest in your corp's growth?

Should a Rohk beat a Dram 1v1 because it costs 3 times as much? Eve isn't about having the biggest shoulder pads with the most colorful name. You don't get guaranteed a victory because your lvl 85. Roll

I don't always use hax. But when I do, it's because I'm an NPC.. http://i.imgur.com/PUZou.jpg

Tarsus Zateki
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2012-03-13 21:15:47 UTC
Get a Nyx and Erubus. The Nyx is still the same old baller ship it was and the Erubus is still the same capital **** wrecking god it was. All this means is you can't one shot fleets of subcaps anymore.

You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world.

Lexmana
#27 - 2012-03-13 21:19:58 UTC
tears and tinfoil-hats all in one single package ... this thread delivers.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#28 - 2012-03-13 21:22:34 UTC
Senorita putatita wrote:
an advantage equal to the risk they are taking Pew Pewing and maybe loosing these ships.



If you look at the stats it's awfully hard to lose a titan. Many many more are produced monthly than are lost. Therefore the risk of loss is small, and thus the advantage should be relatively small.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#29 - 2012-03-13 21:23:00 UTC  |  Edited by: DarthNefarius
Lexmana wrote:
tears and tinfoil-hats all in one single package ... this thread delivers.

You are welcome now gimme a like & 1 million ISKies so I can afford the faction tin foil hats soon to be released by NEX Lol Oh yes please at least a 9/10 or a 10/10 for the threads tears & inevitable goon foreum post bombingTwisted
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#30 - 2012-03-13 21:23:44 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
I do find it interesting that Andski wrote this about the upcoming nerf allready on february 24th:

Andski wrote:
I'm sorry that your titan is now only capable of catapulting fleets, giving massive HP and capacitor bonuses, applying 3 million damage to any capital sized target and dealing massive turret DPS against battleships, capitals and structures.


(source: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=850135#post850135)

At this point the only information given by CCP was that tracking titans were looked into. And Andski has been vehemently opposed to Titans tracking anything smaller than a battleship. The tracking nerf is one thing, but it is the scanres nerf that is the real beauty of this nerf. It makes it impractical to lock smaller ships than battleships (and even battleships is streching it). Andski certainly seems to allready know this, 3 weeks ago.


I planned the whole thing at a barbecue, no troll

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Senorita putatita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-03-13 21:24:01 UTC
Valentyn3 wrote:
Senorita putatita wrote:
It seems like it's turning into a pure numbers game and less about the skill points and time/ISK invested into superior ships. If a player is willing to invest the time=$ and ISK to field ships as expensive as SC's and Titans then why now give them an advantage equal to the risk they are taking Pew Pewing and maybe loosing these ships.

I already have carrier and Dread. Whats my endgame now? Was working towards Nyx then Erebus. Now where do I spend my money? Cry


Better POS? Invest in your corp's growth?

Should a Rohk beat a Dram 1v1 because it costs 3 times as much? Eve isn't about having the biggest shoulder pads with the most colorful name. You don't get guaranteed a victory because your lvl 85. Roll


Then whats the point of working to lvl85?

If you bring enough lvl 20's then you can kill the lvl 85.
Avid Bumhumper
Beekeepers Anonymous
#32 - 2012-03-13 21:28:19 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Senorita putatita wrote:
an advantage equal to the risk they are taking Pew Pewing and maybe loosing these ships.



If you look at the stats it's awfully hard to lose a titan. Many many more are produced monthly than are lost. Therefore the risk of loss is small, and thus the advantage should be relatively small.


Wow, you really have no clue, how does the number produced equate with the cost to the PILOT???

My Tinfoil hat has been sugically implanted, so no,it is not for sale.....

CynoNet Two
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2012-03-13 21:37:07 UTC  |  Edited by: CynoNet Two
Senorita putatita wrote:
It seems like it's turning into a pure numbers game and less about the skill points and time/ISK invested into superior ships. If a player is willing to invest the time=$ and ISK to field ships as expensive as SC's and Titans then why not give them an advantage equal to the risk they are taking Pew Pewing and maybe loosing these ships.

I already have carrier and Dread. Whats my endgame now? Was working towards Nyx then Erebus. Now where do I spend my money? Cry

They do have an advantage. Titans still have the same EHP as a starbase and can put down enough damage to level capital fleets and structures in seconds. The difference now is that they can no longer do this without risk.

The balance vs cost rule of thumb for EVE used to be: "10 times the cost, double the effectiveness". Titans reached the point where they were "10 times the cost, 10+ times the effectiveness"
Edit: just look at how effective that 1.5bn isk Vindicator is compared to a 150m ISK Megathron.

You just have to look at the original dreadnought design made 6 years ago to see how EVE's approach to balancing (is supposed to) work. Relatively low damage output until it went into siege mode and commited itself to a fight, at which point it recieves severe tracking penalities to stop the massive damage output insta-killing small ships in one shot.
Somewhere along the way CCP forgot that approach (or more likely didn't realise how bad the situation was), and now it has been rectified.

Senorita putatita wrote:
Then whats the point of working to lvl85?

If you bring enough lvl 20's then you can kill the lvl 85.

I think you missed the part where THIS IS NOT WORLD OF WARCRAFT
Valentyn3
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#34 - 2012-03-13 21:37:35 UTC
Senorita putatita wrote:
Valentyn3 wrote:
Senorita putatita wrote:
It seems like it's turning into a pure numbers game and less about the skill points and time/ISK invested into superior ships. If a player is willing to invest the time=$ and ISK to field ships as expensive as SC's and Titans then why now give them an advantage equal to the risk they are taking Pew Pewing and maybe loosing these ships.

I already have carrier and Dread. Whats my endgame now? Was working towards Nyx then Erebus. Now where do I spend my money? Cry


Better POS? Invest in your corp's growth?

Should a Rohk beat a Dram 1v1 because it costs 3 times as much? Eve isn't about having the biggest shoulder pads with the most colorful name. You don't get guaranteed a victory because your lvl 85. Roll


Then whats the point of working to lvl85?

If you bring enough lvl 20's then you can kill the lvl 85.



To say you got there. Straight

There's no point to any of this. It's all for personal enjoyment and epeen.

As far as "bring more doods" if that were an effective, practical strategy then this wouldn't be an issue at all but it obviously is. You can only bring so many before they get so many instagib boats that you can't ever field a large enough force on a regular basis and then you loose for no other reason than you couldn't out blob them. Sounds like a pretty ****** end game to me.

I don't always use hax. But when I do, it's because I'm an NPC.. http://i.imgur.com/PUZou.jpg

Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-03-13 21:37:53 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
As somebody who has been on the short end of a titan **** stick on more than one occasion, NO, this is CCP fixing something that is very broken.

Butthurt much ? Oops If you had the Titan, would you not use it that very way everyone else is, just so you have the have the advantage.

Its not CCP fixing anything broken, its making the whining chumps go from losers to feeling like champions (I smell Hollywood movie script about a local community loser sports team of kids set in space!). Enemy isn't bringing titan ships, WTF you going to need to use your titan since it can't hit anything since the enemy is going to exploit that obvious weakness with a fleet of X-Wing Rifters. Its like

"Hey, good job out their. You lost fair and square since their is no rule about XL guns being capable of hitting smaller targets, but this should make you feel better since losers are always the winner in their own imagination. Its not your fault you don't have super caps, but congrats and now welcome back to subcap BS blobs of 2009."

You fail to provide your own cap fleets, fail to make friends with cap ships, fail to bring nothing but hundreds of battleship sub caps to a fire fight and the enemy can kick your ass with a fraction of that number number of pilots in Titans. I finally see the light, its the fault of the capital pilots fault you lost, therefore they are exploiting nothing that actually breaks the game (really, are they producing isk with no risk?...no? So yeah, its the loser's fault for losing but the Titan pilot is at fault.)

CONGRATS TO THE WHINING CHUMPS! Can we dumb down EVE even more, like adding a PVP flag so no one takes full fault for their own actions (like idiots taking on cap ships with out their own cap ships). Solves the whole issue of the losers not feeling like losers when they wander into a gate camp, hulks getting popped when you go AFK or firing on a ninja in their mission space, obvious fix is to just avoid the whole issue to begin with (as in, opt out and you are totally safe from feeling like a loser Roll).

And note: I do not fly a titan or any cap ship. Just see loud mouth whiners bitchwhining how unfair they got their ass kicked, whined how its the Titan's fault and other guys meta-gamed better then the losers in the sub caps (really, dude give up tank and work as a team to kick your ass isn't that what you are supposed to do in an MMO? but you lack the counter and its obviously the winner on your kill mail that was at fault). Next up, bunch of carebears whine how they don't belive highsec is truely safe and it should be absolutely safe making everything you all so love be a bannable offense.
Senorita putatita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-03-13 21:43:23 UTC
Valentyn3 wrote:
Senorita putatita wrote:
Valentyn3 wrote:
Senorita putatita wrote:
It seems like it's turning into a pure numbers game and less about the skill points and time/ISK invested into superior ships. If a player is willing to invest the time=$ and ISK to field ships as expensive as SC's and Titans then why now give them an advantage equal to the risk they are taking Pew Pewing and maybe loosing these ships.

I already have carrier and Dread. Whats my endgame now? Was working towards Nyx then Erebus. Now where do I spend my money? Cry


Better POS? Invest in your corp's growth?

Should a Rohk beat a Dram 1v1 because it costs 3 times as much? Eve isn't about having the biggest shoulder pads with the most colorful name. You don't get guaranteed a victory because your lvl 85. Roll


Then whats the point of working to lvl85?

If you bring enough lvl 20's then you can kill the lvl 85.



To say you got there. Straight

There's no point to any of this. It's all for personal enjoyment and epeen.

As far as "bring more doods" if that were an effective, practical strategy then this wouldn't be an issue at all but it obviously is. You can only bring so many before they get so many instagib boats that you can't ever field a large enough force on a regular basis and then you loose for no other reason than you couldn't out blob them. Sounds like a pretty ****** end game to me.


Then get moar instagib boats. As long as this game has one ship better than the other then they guys that bring the best ships should win, at least with even numbers. Somebody will always be better. Will it be most skilled or most numbers that win EVE?
Esmilis99
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-03-13 21:50:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Esmilis99
Totally not OP

lock - web - puff, lock - web - puff


http://irc.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12174191
Astrid Stjerna
Sebiestor Tribe
#38 - 2012-03-13 21:56:45 UTC
Avid Bumhumper wrote:

To many people, Supercaps were part of the Endgame of Eve, yet you continue to make them a liability to own, at least for anyone that can't field 100 of them.


Of course they're a liability. To a frigate, a Titan is nothing but a massive, slowly-drifting target.

I can't get rid of my darn signature!  Oh, wait....

Senorita putatita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-03-13 22:08:38 UTC
Esmilis99 wrote:
Totally not OP

lock - web - puff, lock - web - puff


http://irc.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12174191



What
I learned last weekend was drakes and maelstroms suck against titans and sc's. Kinda like using hulks against canes. Nerf canes
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-03-13 22:37:10 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
I do not fly a titan or any cap ship.


i do, loser

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar