EVE General Discussion

You are mistaking an ability to influence as power to effect change. I am not painting a picture between two extremes I am agreeing with a CSM statement that unless CCP are listening there is nothing they can do. Not my point Two steps.

My posting history should show that I do not post regularly nor do I run down the CSM I voted for it and believe it is important. I have openly acknolwledged their efforts in this thread; nor have I stooped to personal insults despite being subjected to some of the most poorly written invective I have read in some time.

It is neither dishonest nor a fallacy to state that the CSM has no power in fact it is delusional to claim otherwise. It is a customer satisfasction think tank no more. If CCP choose to ignore it even the limited ability to influence is negated and they have been ignored since June as evidenced by their own blogs, posts on here and kugu.

This thread is directly concerned with the failure of the current CSM to effect any change in an issue that for most players is the most pressing and has been since teh June release of Incarna. It is not a judgment on past CSM it is a judgement on a current process that has been proven by all the available evidence to have failed.

Before you accuse me of things I clearly havent done I suggest you read my posts first, you might learn somthing.

Please stop putting words in our mouths. We have never said that we have been ignored since June.

I don't agree with your view on how much power we have. It is true, as Malcanis said, that much of our power comes from players. We have proven via the media campaign that CCP chooses to ignore us at their own peril.

We understand that players will need to see concrete results. We haven't seen those, yet. That is why we haven't declared victory, just a temporary truce while we listen to what CCP has to say to us.

Any update from CSM or CCP for that matter on when this weeks meeting is going to take place, It Wednesday afternoon afterall and still no news

Yes, we havent seen any results... from CSM or CCP... Thats the biggest issue right there...
The OP was, for all intents and purposes, doing a great thing by posting but it was missing the key part of being a value post... The actuall content we all have been waiting to see.
Mind you I am not talking about any specific idea or requested information but in general, it was missing any *BEEP* content.
On that part both CSM and CCP has been failing rather had for some time now.
Most of the CSM must be aware of that by now and then to go and post a "get your hopes up" without so much as a hint...

And yes I am aware of the *BEEP* NDA, either tell CCP to give you something so we can have some "meat" or be silent :P
Its been to long now that CCP/CSM have said alot but done nothing ( as far as we can see, remember the Winter™ is rather far away to )

I dont think they can....
They have spent some time with CCP now, having access to more then we have so I think they have forgotten how us "normal" players feel.
Blinded by their "power" if you will :D

On that "specific" part, I'd actually want to know a few of the "topics" still aware they are just talks... and that some of the topics might change several times.
It whould be wastly more meat then "we are talking"

The difference between dreaming and waiting? I whould much rather dream then wait... ( but thats just me..... )

EDIT: I ment to say I'd rather dream while waiting then just wait...

fail it said ganked an posted anyways ><

Unfortunately, Meissa, most of the goodwill toward EVE has been used up by CCP's delaying tactics, ridiculous overuse of the NDA, and general failure to actually listen to anyone about anything. And it bears mentioning that there's a big difference between hearing and listening, and by now it ought to be clear to even the most die-hard fanboy that CCP hears a lot but listens very little.

The problem is this, Meissa: the community has made it more than clear it is very dissatisfied with CCP's entire approach to EVE Online over the past two years or so. This isn't just about getting CCP to throw us a bone and allocate two or three more devs to FiS, or patching a few bugs, etc. On the contrary, in my estimation the community has lost faith that CCP knows what it is doing when it comes to the continued development of this game. Gone are the days when CCP would surprise and excite the community with innovative thinking and cool new ideas that enhance and expand EVE. Instead, we now get bugs on top of bugs, expansions that subtract more than they add, and re-designs of key features that actually destroy important parts of EVE's core gameplay. None of which ever seems to get fixed.

Very few people are actually arguing that EVE Online has been getting better. But to add insult to injury, the community is repeatedly placated with token content intended to do just enough to prevent game-wide riots. And all the while actual information about what's really happening with the game and between CCP and the CSM is conveniently hidden behind an NDA smokescreen. And we all know why.

Bottom line: There's a lot of people like me out here that have invested a lot of time and resources into EVE Online over the years, and dropping a few crumbs to keep us happy isn't going to cut it any more. Anything short of CCP publicly acknowledging there are a number of very serious issues plaguing EVE that require immediate attention and a commitment to address those problems with all the resources at the company's disposal is likely to push the community over a tipping point in the very near future. A lot of us have stuck with EVE Online for a long time even though we were quite unhappy with the direction of the game, but events over the last six months have pretty much convinced me and a lot of others that CCP's leadership is tone deaf and no longer shares a common vision with the players of what this game is all about. And that's sad because EVE Online was once one of the most interesting and innovative bright spots in PC gaming.

At this point I have little or no interest in hearing that CCP is again meeting with the CSM. The secret meetings behind closed doors have produced tons of blog entries and fuel for CCP's propaganda machine, but very little in the way of tangible results that players can see. And the worst part is even the little victories the CSM has been able to achieve have mostly involved items that should have been fixed without CCP having to be forced.

For the first time in years I've allowed all my other accounts to lapse and I have no intention of reactivating them until I see some concrete changes. Hearing about meetings and NDAs and crap articles on MMO news sites about how great it's all going to be is no longer going to cut it. There are other developers competing for my gaming time and that's where I'll be until CCP cleans its own house and makes some very tough decisions about where this game ought to be headed.

Right now I don't know any more than I did before this announcement. If the problem is lack of communication from CCP it is incredibly stupid to try and fix that with secret meetings.They need to tell US something of substance not just the CSM.

Still waiting, btw.