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Remove Alpha or Nerf
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Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
#21 - 2012-03-12 18:37:40 UTC
Maelstrom guys not Alpha itself.

One more time. Im thinking that arty is OP thats all. Probobly volley is too big....

Blatant Forum Alt
Doomheim
#22 - 2012-03-12 19:33:58 UTC
Keen Fallsword wrote:
Maelstrom guys not Alpha itself.

One more time. Im thinking that arty is OP thats all. Probobly volley is too big....



I think we should remove Missiles from the game. Just get rid of them completely, they have no purpose.

Except by Missiles, I actually mean the Captains Quarters. Because, as Im sure you know, if you use one word in place of another, everyone will instantly know what you're on about.
Leto Aramaus
Frog Team Four
Of Essence
#23 - 2012-03-12 19:39:48 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
You CAN'T remove alpha damage from the game. Alpha damage is simply a common term for "everybody fire all a the same time and hope the initial hit is enough to kill the guy". This occurs because every pilot usually has a different cycle time with the exception of the very first shot which always fires as soon as you click. The only way to do away with it would be to make guns fire at the end of the cycle instead of the beginning...this would not only be stupid but likely game breaking.


Precisely.

OP, you need to think before you post.

"remove alpha"?

That literally just does not make ANY sense. Alpha means the amount of damage done in your first shot.

So, removing alpha would mean nobody could fire their guns, at all...

/surrounded by idiots

The UI update we deserve
Velicitia
XS Tech
#24 - 2012-03-12 19:41:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Keen Fallsword wrote:
In my post Alpha = Maelstrom. It was a shortcut ... Geeeeee relax Dude lol


next time use the right ******* word so people know what you're talking about. like, oh, i dunno "Mael".

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#25 - 2012-03-12 19:44:22 UTC
Blatant Forum Alt wrote:
Keen Fallsword wrote:
Maelstrom guys not Alpha itself.

One more time. Im thinking that arty is OP thats all. Probobly volley is too big....



I think we should remove Missiles from the game. Just get rid of them completely, they have no purpose.

Except by Missiles, I actually mean the Captains Quarters. Because, as Im sure you know, if you use one word in place of another, everyone will instantly know what you're on about.


This. If you mean Maelstrom, then say that, because it's not synonymous with Alpha.

And it's working as intended, there's nothing whatsoever wrong with Maelstroms right now, you simply don't like how they're being used. Get over it, because it won't change.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#26 - 2012-03-12 19:48:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Blatant Forum Alt wrote:
Keen Fallsword wrote:
Maelstrom guys not Alpha itself.

One more time. Im thinking that arty is OP thats all. Probobly volley is too big....



I think we should remove Missiles from the game. Just get rid of them completely, they have no purpose.

Except by Missiles, I actually mean the Captains Quarters. Because, as Im sure you know, if you use one word in place of another, everyone will instantly know what you're on about.


+1 for adding Missiles to Captain's Quarters...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#27 - 2012-03-12 22:29:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Ines Tegator
The problem, if there is one, is in how artillery is designed and that it's simply way too efficient. "Alpha" is just a generic term that in EVE context means the first volley. Unless you remove weapons, there will always be a first volley.

No fix is possible, imo. Due to economies of scale, if you tone down alpha damage, all you will get is that alpha fleets require a few more ships to get the job done. This is EVE, we can always add more ships. There's no way around that. I'm personally in favor of a kind of SOASE style mitigation that goes up the more people are shooting at you (debris from previous attacks interfere with later weapons attacks, etc. perfectly reasonable and actually a large concern in RL laser weapons) to make fights more dynamic and engaging for all pilots in a fleet, but even that won't eliminate alpha at the large fleet scale. Any and all changes will only push the required size of an alpha fleet higher; it can never be eliminated.

Overhaul Dscan!
Nylith Empyreal
Sutar Rein
#28 - 2012-03-12 22:45:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Nylith Empyreal
Taking reality out of check adding diminishing returns to number of ships firing at once on one target would reduce alpha and perhaps add segmented call outs for distributed alphas. In one sense you'll see more than everyone's lasers firing at one target to multiple for some visual appeal. Possibly add more dynamics to primary targetS, but this would **** up tanking ratios and trying to get rid of logistics / capitals. Everything would need tweaking for the sake of visuals, though I personally wouldn't mind this, even if it's just visuals, it possibly gives a more epic feel to battles.

But like I said tanks would need tweaking, EHP would deffinately need tweaking, and repping would need tweaking, leaving dmg out the equation a moment. Honestly looking at it, it would be alot of balancing time for such a thing to be considered for the sake of visual appeal of fleets. But I dunno, I stick to small gangs, and all I ever see of large scale is people zoomed WAY the **** out, so the visuals wouldn't matter. It may make small scale more interesting / dynamic.

I'm not for or against, there is other **** that needs balancing first before we change it's entirety.

Who's the more foolish the fool or the fool who replies to him?
Ines Tegator
Serious Business Inc. Ltd. LLC. etc.
#29 - 2012-03-12 23:00:48 UTC
Agreed, tanks and RR would totally need tweaking. Logi's in particular are way too high if that was implemented now. But, on the whole, it would make ECM, target painters (possibly using them to negate this issue and making minnie ewar far more useful), fleet composition and local tanks all far more involved in most battles. A good idea in the long run, but a lot of work to be sure.

Overhaul Dscan!
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