EVE General Discussion

Risk vs. Reward means nothing.

1) If you inject 1 GAZILLION isk into an economy it does not matter how risky it was. Injection is injection.

2) Even if it did matter, people use caps and super caps to do PVE in what is supposedly the riskiest space in EVE. Last I checked a fully fit Super was way more expensive than a shiny mach used in Incursions. This implies that either the reward for PVE far outstrips the risk in the theoretically riskiest places, or the risk is significantly less than in highsec incursions. If the former is true, then any concerns you might have about isk faucets should be focused on the PVE rewards that allow Supers/Titans to be worth it. If the latter is true than complaints about risk vs. reward should be focused on making non-highsec more risky.

If you read my original post, I mentioned clearly that when salvaging, I would use an alt. But given the nature of marauders, it's not necessary.

As for the corp tax, 2+ years in 0.0 and I have never paid one. I partake in PVP. Those who don't are put in corps within the alliance that have a tax, simple enough. If they are miners, then they do corp/alliance mining ops to support the PVP, simple enough. If they are builders, they may be expected to build at cost for corp/alliance, simple enough. One corp I was in not only didn't have tax, but paid you for red killmails.

So honestly, wouldn't be a bad idea to gauge your targets in null by who has corp tax. Though to get to them, you would probably have to fly endlessly through a wall of cannon fodder that is renter.

And as I stated, caps/supers in 0.0 PVE should get you an instant pwn fest the way they do in w-space. warp a solo carrier to a site in class five and watch the fireworks. As far as injecting a gazillion isk into the economy... as long as it results in a gazilion isk in pvp ships dying, then all is well. Where as high-sec incursions suffer ship loss only from unwary pilots and unfortunate ganks. That isn't nearly enough to balance against the inflow.

Except that it doesnt. Which implies that reward>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>risk.



Except that they dont.



Warp a solo Mach into an Assault and watch the fireworks.



Because none of those people do incursions to pay for pew pew amirite? I guess then that everyone who engages in missions/ratting/anom'ing/wormholing is also only doing it for the PVE and never to fuel pvp.

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No it HAS NOT the lp sink of Condord halves that for one. And for two the ISK would have been created by these players running missions, annomilies, plexes, etc... you are still making crud up. Granted they may not have been making it as fast butt you 40-50% is a made up number not including a GREAT number of factors.

Finally we agree on something.

(not the loving Soundwave part - I don't even know the guy)

Reverse that

Actually mudflation has less to do with currency than with power accumulation. Game currency is only one part of mudflation, generally mudflation has more to do with older items losing value while others end up with ex-ordinate prices due to factors beyond simple currency accumulation.

So in generic fantasy mmo a sword that's powerful in the original release is superceeded by a new sword in an expansion the value of the previous sword drops to nothing.

This is exacerbated by the fact that for the most part items are indestructible and the most desirable are generally not trade-able. Resulting in a situation where players have very little to spend their currency on as such those few things that are desirable end up costing extreme amounts while the vast majority of trade-able items rapidly drop to "vendor-trash" status resulting in even more currency entering the economy

Also currency generation in most MMO's tends to be an incidental rather than a goal in and of itself, you earn isk in the normal process of advancing your character. Since most MMO's are level/xp based where one has to "grind" for more power and currency is injected via "loots" from the grinding activity you end up with a constantly expanding currency base with very few things of interest for players to spend it on, Resulting in a screwed up game economy and "Mudflation

EVE doesn't suffer from this problem for a number of reasons. the two biggies being destructible trade-able items and the Market system

Since everything is destructible and all things can be traded there is a constant need to replenish ones resources, in a typical MMO once you acquire power item 001 you've got power item 001 until power item 002 obsolesces it. in EVE get power item 001 and it's only around until it ends up destroyed resulting in the need to acquire a replacement power item 001

Further since everything is trade-able there is plenty of incentive to spend your currency

Another difference between EVE and the typical MMO is that generating currency is separated from advancement. Since the power of your character is based on a time skill system currency harvesting becomes a conscious act rather than an incidental result of normal game play.

Now I'm not saying that EVE's developers don't have to pay attention to keeping sinks and faucets balanced but in general the EVE economy is pretty self correcting. As a result of how the market system works the largest sink in the game scales with isk flow. Market taxes and brokers fees ensure that x% is shaved off every transaction that takes place. If prices increase due to an increase in the isk supply then a greater amount of isk is removed, if more resources change hands do to increased isk supply then more isk is still removed

It's auto-scaling. The economy in EVE is actually an fascinatingly effective self correcting model which I would generally suggest the developers should resist the urge to tinker with it

Another thing that just occurred to me relating to PLEX prices. In addition to their prices being influenced by forces outside of the in game economy the fact that they can be converted to the only non-destructible items in game subjects them to mudflation in a way that other items in EVE are not.

To be honest, currencies rise and fall. Big corporations could easily take to trading in minerals as opposed to ISK, to avoid devaluing what they have traded for. It would bug up the market system pretty bad (everything would have to be done via contracts) but it would be interesting to see how things turned out.

Of course, if ISK did crash completely, we'd have a nightmare on our hands. How would CCP deal with the entire game currency crashing? It simply wouldn't work. Everyone would be equally affected; people with less ISK would be down to nothing, and people with much more would lose absolutely masses.

One could easily buy a load of ships, wait a while, and then sell them just before an incursion-nerf and make a total killing. Or they could miss and fail epicly.

I personally don't really worry about it that much as it's not actually real money for a start; however this game in incredibly intellectual so I do wonder how it would be sorted out from time to time.

No, what's happening here is that you're sticking your head in the sand. What we have IS an example of mudflation - contrary to what you originally claimed. Furthermore, I am not ignoring the effects of no-drop indestructible assets (aka "soul bound" items) - I'm simply pointing out that the Eve economy is having a problem right now as the faucets are running significantly faster than the drains.

This is a problem.

It is mudflation.

It is the definition of mudflation.

Stop trolling.

-Liang