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Dear Devs, thank you for spending 5 minutes to explain a game mechanic
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#81 - 2012-03-13 07:56:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Tippia wrote:
Soldarius wrote:
Show me on the dolly avatar where the bad Falcon touched you.
Don't be silly. Falcons can't touch Avatars.

Ah yes. This is after all, Supercapitals Online, ECM and having to defend against electronic warfare are for those peasants using capitals and subcapitals. Titans and supercarriers forever!

P.S. Death to all supercaps erryday.
P.S. Sieged dreads and triaged carriers can also ignore ECM but they can't move. Also, sieged dreads can't blap subcaps. As for triaged carriers...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#82 - 2012-03-13 08:10:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Marlona Sky wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
The only way to fix ECM, is to remove ECM.


I'd like to hear what the Falcon and Rook are for then.

This oughta be good.


You have already made up your mind. Nothing I suggest for a new role would be satisfactory for you. The Falcon and Rook's new role is to be crammed directly up your fat, neckbeard ass.

How is that for a new role?


See my signature if you want to know what I think of your suggestion for this "new role."

Truly, you are a visionary among dullards.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Yvella
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2012-03-13 08:45:37 UTC
Glarealot wrote:
ECM was designed to hurt solo and small scale PvP. It worked perfectly.

Learn to blob or gtfo.

<-------------- WoW is that way.


This is exactly correct it is the only thing that makes sense and the reason I am "whining". I want to hear it from CCP though.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#84 - 2012-03-13 08:51:48 UTC
Misanth wrote:
Is it reasonable to ask people "bring friends" "bring ECM of your own"? Only if you want numbers > all. Should it be? What point is there with skillpoints, more expensive gear, etc, if blobs > all.


i dunno, multiplayer game?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Yvella
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#85 - 2012-03-13 08:53:38 UTC
Andski wrote:
Misanth wrote:
Is it reasonable to ask people "bring friends" "bring ECM of your own"? Only if you want numbers > all. Should it be? What point is there with skillpoints, more expensive gear, etc, if blobs > all.


i dunno, multiplayer game?


MMORPG vs Sandbox

Think on that a second

MMORPG

sandbox...
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#86 - 2012-03-13 08:57:25 UTC
Pissed off about :falcon:?

l2gallente.

1. :damps:
2. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Information_Warfare_Link_-_Sensor_Integrity
3. drones, you can't jam sentries



.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#87 - 2012-03-13 09:03:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Yvella wrote:
Andski wrote:
Misanth wrote:
Is it reasonable to ask people "bring friends" "bring ECM of your own"? Only if you want numbers > all. Should it be? What point is there with skillpoints, more expensive gear, etc, if blobs > all.


i dunno, multiplayer game?


MMORPG vs Sandbox

Think on that a second

MMORPG

sandbox...



http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12714317

looks like you got owned in your cookie cutter sabre's own bubble by a rifter and a griffin! lol!

and that was just minutes before you posted this thread whining about your loss (((

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Yvella
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2012-03-13 12:11:37 UTC
Andski wrote:
Yvella wrote:
Andski wrote:
Misanth wrote:
Is it reasonable to ask people "bring friends" "bring ECM of your own"? Only if you want numbers > all. Should it be? What point is there with skillpoints, more expensive gear, etc, if blobs > all.


i dunno, multiplayer game?


MMORPG vs Sandbox

Think on that a second

MMORPG

sandbox...



http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12714317

looks like you got owned in your cookie cutter sabre's own bubble by a rifter and a griffin! lol!

and that was just minutes before you posted this thread whining about your loss (((


Maybe it was this 1 http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12697657 ???

anyway mr troll, the cookie cutter sabre is fitted with a falcon alt.

Also you will find that the cookie cutter solo ships are things like vagabonds and cynabals which can run when the falcons decloak. The poor old diemos is never going to work as a small gang solo ship when a falcon can cut his DPS (buffed or not) to 0 whilst in scram web range.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#89 - 2012-03-13 12:14:59 UTC
Roime wrote:
3. drones, you can't jam sentries
You can, but it'll eat up an awful lot of midslots to do it to all of them…
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#90 - 2012-03-13 13:23:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
Reccon V and related skills to V with 3 Scripted range damps -because stackingpenaltysucksassonmyshitdamps- you'll bring an unscripted/sebo Battleship targeting range from an average of 85km to about 15km.

With 3 damps scripted targeting speed, wich is completely useless unless very specific situations, you're less usefull in the field than 3Ecm drones + 2warriors in a mining barge.
-wait again specific situations for gallente? wow specific.ships.not-useless.but-almost@online.com

Instead of just nerfing nerfing nerfing why just not add as drawback of using ECM on someone, the specific (again???) drawback of increasing the targeted ship scan strenght to 100% for a minute or 2 and of course cumulative by the number of jams used.

It's not a nerf, would just make it more interesting to use since you'd need more than a troglodyte mongoloid F1 monkey arse to use ECM effectively.
Taedrin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2012-03-13 16:00:25 UTC
Tobias Sjodin wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Tobias Sjodin wrote:
If ECM -ONLY- broke the lock of something it would be fine.
I generally agree with this.

The largest annoyance with ECM is that feeling of not being able to do anything about it — if it hits, you have to sit there for 20 seconds, no ifs, no buts, and then you can hope that at the end of the cycle, you might be given a chance to get back in the fight. It's the 20 seconds that cause the “permajammed” perception (regardless of whether it actually happens or not — in a fight that lasts 100 seconds, a single successful jam that causes a 20s blackout + 5 seconds of reacquiring time is “permanent” enough).

Making targeted ECM have the same effect as an ECM burst would have a couple of advantages:

· Sensor damping would suddenly be very important — yes, your BECAUSEOFFALCONs might knock the enemy ships out, but they'll be back to firing in 5-6 seconds… unless you also brought a BECAUSEOFARAZU to ensure that it's actually 10-15 seconds instead.

· Size becomes an interesting component. Instead of small ships being unavoidably locked out by ECM due to their low sensor strength, making that dreaded permajam that more likely, they will still lose lock very easily, but they will also reacquire their targets quickly. An ECM ship can no longer simply put a jammer on an interceptor and know that he is now safe from being tackled since the jamming strength so easily overcomes those silly frigate sensors.

· ECM now has two kinds of counters — the passive ECCM and the more active sensor booster (well… the active part is the reacquisition of your target, which is made all the more immediate with a booster).


This man gets it.


The problem with ECM is that small gangs don't know how to properly react to it. There are plenty of ways you can deal with being ECM'd - you can do a tactical warp, you can burn out of the falcon's optimal range, you can focus on bumping ships off of the gate, you can get your friends to focus down the falcon, etc etc...

And if you make ECM have the same effect as an ECM burst, there will be several side-effects: spider tanks will be near impossible to break, with the only hard counter to spider tanks being neuts. ECM will be worthless against any pilot carrying a single sensor booster. ECM will be worthless against naturally fast locking ships such as frigates and cruisers.

And please don't forget the bad old days when sensor dampeners reigned supreme. At least with ECM you have a CHANCE of getting back into the fight, as opposed to sensor dampeners which remove you from the fight ENTIRELY. Remember having your targetting range damped down to 10km? Yeah, that could happen again.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#92 - 2012-03-13 20:30:41 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
would be cool if there where drone damps.


This guy has obviously been blapped by a sentry domi. You can read it between the line.



Actually I was a sentry domi back in the day, never had a chance to properly deploy this was also back then we called the sentry drones 'ship saws' especially when the moms deployed them. Then they unliked the carrier bonus from the drones and that sort of died.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#93 - 2012-03-13 20:33:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Nova Fox wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
would be cool if there where drone damps.


This guy has obviously been blapped by a sentry domi. You can read it between the line.



Actually I was a sentry domi back in the day, never had a chance to properly deploy this was also back then we called the sentry drones 'ship saws' especially when the moms deployed them. Then they unliked the carrier bonus from the drones and that sort of died.


+1 to you then.

Try a Dominix on a lowsec gate some day with Garde II's out.

Non-regional gates work best. Fit a sebo for lock speed, two if you're brave.

Watch them saw through stuff. Sentry rigs help!

[edit: the reason this works as opposed to heavies is that you can scoop the drones if they pick up gate gun aggro and then immediately redeploy. it's gorgeous.]

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Stephen Fleck
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#94 - 2012-03-13 21:01:21 UTC
Its interesting the main ones defending ecm are mostly blob pvp'ers and or their alts.Eccm and FOF is a joke if you want sustain any decent dps/tank/prop/point etc..Ya you can make the falcon/falcon's primary and make them bug off for about 20 secs but they will be right back before you can establish any kind of field advantage.All this being a small gang or even solo point of view.Furthermore if you dont think being perma jammed is a mechanic that needs to be looked at then ive got a pretty good idea of what your idea of fun pvp is.Its just amazing to me this hasnt been gimped yet.I guess some eve entities do have a sway on ccp after all.I have played on both ends of the issue and this is just my personal opinion on the matter.Feel free to belittle me and make yourself feel good in the process i could care less.
Yvella
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2012-03-13 21:27:45 UTC
Stephen Fleck wrote:
Its interesting the main ones defending ecm are mostly blob pvp'ers and or their alts.Eccm and FOF is a joke if you want sustain any decent dps/tank/prop/point etc..Ya you can make the falcon/falcon's primary and make them bug off for about 20 secs but they will be right back before you can establish any kind of field advantage.All this being a small gang or even solo point of view.Furthermore if you dont think being perma jammed is a mechanic that needs to be looked at then ive got a pretty good idea of what your idea of fun pvp is.Its just amazing to me this hasnt been gimped yet.I guess some eve entities do have a sway on ccp after all.I have played on both ends of the issue and this is just my personal opinion on the matter.Feel free to belittle me and make yourself feel good in the process i could care less.


Yes indeed.

Does anyone actually know CCPs opinion/views on the jam mechanic, have they even thought about it in the last 3 years?
Avid Bumhumper
Beekeepers Anonymous
#96 - 2012-03-13 21:30:41 UTC
If you read the forums, you'd already know that even the Devs don't seem to know what changes are happening....so your answer may be wrong regardless.....P

My Tinfoil hat has been sugically implanted, so no,it is not for sale.....
Yvella
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2012-03-13 21:59:22 UTC
Avid Bumhumper wrote:
If you read the forums, you'd already know that even the Devs don't seem to know what changes are happening....so your answer may be wrong regardless.....P



Ha ha. Also this really should have been picked up as part of the hybrid/gallente "fix" at least minmatar can kite and reposition
Kai Tel
State War Academy
Caldari State
#98 - 2012-03-13 22:06:49 UTC
I think the biggest problem with ECM in its current state is that the previous nerf to sensor dampening went too far. In comparison to the other EWAR fields it simply brings too much to the play grid right now. That said, I do not feel it should be nerfed as it brings a new dimension to large and small scale PVP conflict. Further nerfs would diminish EWAR’s value as a whole to play too far. Rather, I think sensor dampening and perhaps the other fields of EWAR should be buffed…

As a newer player, I do not claim the same level of expertise that some of you have. That said I have been researching in an attempt to figure out what roles various racial ships could fill with corporations. I came to the conclusion that while Gallente were once great, specializing in their hulls now a great way to gimp yourself outside of small gang PVP and some solo activities like exploration.

No one I spoke too wanted a sensor dampening specialized pilot. It was deemed useless. They all wanted ECM specialized pilots. That left me sad.

One of the core reasons for my thought on this subject was the nerf to sensor dampening and how it changed the larger scale play grid. Gallente ships and drones rely on close range weaponry yet are amongst the slowest. Sensor dampening used to allow their groups to close or kinda mid range snipe effectively with the other factions in larger scale conflicts. Now? All I hear about are maelstroms, helcats, baddons, and drake blobs.

I wanted a domi blob. ;)
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#99 - 2012-03-13 22:11:21 UTC
Yvella wrote:
ECM is poor game design, any mechanic that leaves a person completely useless Evil

Yes this is an argument as old as the hills, but to summarise:

1. It is common for people to have dedicated ECM alts. This is a typical sign of an OP mechanic

Mining, industry, spies, capitals... all OP

2. ECM does not scale in fleet fights, but completely ruins, solo and small gang engagements

only for the guys who didn't bring jams

3. Has anyone seen the sabre/falcon gate camp. Did you just say risk free pvp.....

get better intel, and what about a small gang fight on station and that triage thanny pops out. Jams really help with that...

Seriously address this now please

working as intended

EDIT:
OK missed one because I was mad

4. ECM does not have an effective counter, (lol sensor strength)..

sez you

So far the only pro-current-ECM answer that I can actually agree with is:

"ECM was designed to hurt solo and small scale PvP. It worked perfectly.

if you believe that then you're an idiot

Learn to blob or gtfo.

define blob

<-------------- WoW is that way."

Would love for a dev to comment on that.


what... the wow part?
Hauling Hal
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2012-03-13 22:40:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Hauling Hal
An option for discussion:

ECM could reduce rate of fire by a % depending on the ratio of the ecm strength to the target's sensor strength, which would put it in line with the other EW mods and remove the % chance of a OMGWTFIMJAMMEDCRY.

P.S. 100% rof reduction is the same as perma-jammed, but you won't have to relock when it stops. This would be a worse case, whereas a 1% rof reduction would be a waste of time.