These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

CCP do something about the suicide ganking problem

Author
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2012-03-12 03:02:50 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Why would my pod being blown up stop me from suicide ganking? Sounds like pubbie logic.


You couldn't possibly have your clone set somewhere near the place you're ganking!

Nerf that.

Actually, there's an idea we've been kicking around the office lately. I would going to present it formally at some point, but I suppose this is as good a circumstance as any:

Popups for everything.

"Someone's trying to scan you. Do you want to allow this?"
"Someone has wardecced your corp. Is this okay with you?"
"Someone wants to warp scramble you. May he?"

I think it's pretty well in line with the direction CCP is after. Let me know what you think. Maybe we can get it squeezed into Inferno.
M5 Tuttle
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2012-03-12 03:47:30 UTC
Honestly guise if you aren't keeping you freighter contents less than 4-600 mil and autopiloting on an alt while you do something actually interesting on your main, youre doin it wrong.
Cosmos Serendipity
BRAHMA CORP
#63 - 2012-03-12 04:02:35 UTC
Part of the problem is the punishment system has a lot to be desired. Taking insurance payouts from gankers were just common sense but imo doesn't really go far enough.

Imortals should have a better punishment system than the one Eve has. For instance, when your in high sec and you blow up another citizen or kill them you shouldn't just be given the current "Community service" punishment that is currently in place.
What kind of punishment is chain killing a few priates in low or null? You can get sec status back up in hours/ days, then go right back to killing people inside of the factions space.

One thing to do is not only should the person take a sec status hit, they should take a hit to all corporations/ factions the victim had good standings with, the hit should be based on how good of standings the victim had with said corps/ faction.
They should also be banished from that factions space for a time limit, increasing with each offense, say a 3 strike rule. Say strike one is a weeks banishment, strike two a months banishment, strike three perma ban from that factions space where they are KOS to everyone. During the banishment period clone contracts in that area should also be revoked.

This will not make high sec totally safe, but it would require gankers to decide the risk verse reward, and would make more sense in a "highly evolved" society.

Sure people will make ganking alts, but thats just eve. As it is null is safer than high sec and doesn't even adress low sec, but with people being banished from high sec, at least after time the population would grow in low waiting to gank high and null sec dwellers as they pass through.

That being said, the risk verse reward needs to be totally revamped for all area's of space. (As though we don't know that)
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2012-03-12 04:21:51 UTC
beor oranes wrote:
Though not in the last little while, I have over the years moved billions (up to abour 10bil) at a time in and out of Jita. The only time I got ganked was when I left some T2 BPC's in a shuttle by accident and AP'd to Jita and was sat on a gate for about 20 minutes. Suicide ganking is easily avoidable if you take simple and common sense precautions, if you don't you deserve to lose your ship and cargo.


Yeah and back in the day I loaded a Large Faction Tower into an Ity IV, put some tank on the thing, and made it to my destination. This is not back in the day. Simply fitting a tank and not AFKing is no longer enough.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#65 - 2012-03-12 04:27:59 UTC
Cosmos Serendipity wrote:
Part of the problem is the punishment system has a lot to be desired. Taking insurance payouts from gankers were just common sense but imo doesn't really go far enough.

Imortals should have a better punishment system than the one Eve has. For instance, when your in high sec and you blow up another citizen or kill them you shouldn't just be given the current "Community service" punishment that is currently in place.
What kind of punishment is chain killing a few priates in low or null? You can get sec status back up in hours/ days, then go right back to killing people inside of the factions space.

One thing to do is not only should the person take a sec status hit, they should take a hit to all corporations/ factions the victim had good standings with, the hit should be based on how good of standings the victim had with said corps/ faction.
They should also be banished from that factions space for a time limit, increasing with each offense, say a 3 strike rule. Say strike one is a weeks banishment, strike two a months banishment, strike three perma ban from that factions space where they are KOS to everyone. During the banishment period clone contracts in that area should also be revoked.

This will not make high sec totally safe, but it would require gankers to decide the risk verse reward, and would make more sense in a "highly evolved" society.

Sure people will make ganking alts, but thats just eve. As it is null is safer than high sec and doesn't even adress low sec, but with people being banished from high sec, at least after time the population would grow in low waiting to gank high and null sec dwellers as they pass through.

That being said, the risk verse reward needs to be totally revamped for all area's of space. (As though we don't know that)


your ideas suck

if you want risk-free pve go to wow thanks!!!

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2012-03-12 04:31:29 UTC
Here's a quick list of things that can no longer be moved by the freighterload


Antimatter Charge M = 3920 isk/m3 (using lowest Forge price).
EMP M = 3920 ism/m3 (give or take a couple of isk).
Hammerhead I = 2889 isk/m3

The gank limit is currently around 1000isk m/3 (For 700mil in drop from 700K of cargohold).

When a freighter can not move a full cargohold of T1 ammo or T1 drones something has gone horribly wrong.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#67 - 2012-03-12 04:37:39 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
Here's a quick list of things that can no longer be moved by the freighterload


Antimatter Charge M = 3920 isk/m3 (using lowest Forge price).
EMP M = 3920 ism/m3 (give or take a couple of isk).
Hammerhead I = 2889 isk/m3

The gank limit is currently around 1000isk m/3 (For 700mil in drop from 700K of cargohold).

When a freighter can not move a full cargohold of T1 ammo or T1 drones something has gone horribly wrong.


Find me a single market order for 78.5 million units of Antimatter M and we'll talk!

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Cosmos Serendipity
BRAHMA CORP
#68 - 2012-03-12 04:48:16 UTC
Andski wrote:
Cosmos Serendipity wrote:
Part of the problem is the punishment system has a lot to be desired. Taking insurance payouts from gankers were just common sense but imo doesn't really go far enough.

Imortals should have a better punishment system than the one Eve has. For instance, when your in high sec and you blow up another citizen or kill them you shouldn't just be given the current "Community service" punishment that is currently in place.
What kind of punishment is chain killing a few priates in low or null? You can get sec status back up in hours/ days, then go right back to killing people inside of the factions space.

One thing to do is not only should the person take a sec status hit, they should take a hit to all corporations/ factions the victim had good standings with, the hit should be based on how good of standings the victim had with said corps/ faction.
They should also be banished from that factions space for a time limit, increasing with each offense, say a 3 strike rule. Say strike one is a weeks banishment, strike two a months banishment, strike three perma ban from that factions space where they are KOS to everyone. During the banishment period clone contracts in that area should also be revoked.

This will not make high sec totally safe, but it would require gankers to decide the risk verse reward, and would make more sense in a "highly evolved" society.

Sure people will make ganking alts, but thats just eve. As it is null is safer than high sec and doesn't even adress low sec, but with people being banished from high sec, at least after time the population would grow in low waiting to gank high and null sec dwellers as they pass through.

That being said, the risk verse reward needs to be totally revamped for all area's of space. (As though we don't know that)


your ideas suck

if you want risk-free pve go to wow thanks!!!


Where did I mention "Risk free pve"? Reading 101 ftw
Kessiaan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2012-03-12 04:50:14 UTC
As someone who's done a fair amount of suicide ganking and runs lots of cargo through Jita on a regular basis, I can say with 100% certainty that moving cargo isn't about making it impossible or even particularly difficult to be suicide ganked. You just have to be a less worthwhile target than the freighter next to you.

Having a same-corp alt to give you webs helps a lot too, but for some reason every time I show in Empire CONCORD decides that, no, the week I spent shooting Sansha rats in Stain doesn't count after all and they still hate me.
Valentyn3
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#70 - 2012-03-12 04:54:41 UTC
Kessiaan wrote:
As someone who's done a fair amount of suicide ganking and runs lots of cargo through Jita on a regular basis, I can say with 100% certainty that moving cargo isn't about making it impossible or even particularly difficult to be suicide ganked. You just have to be a less worthwhile target than the freighter next to you.

Having a same-corp alt to give you webs helps a lot too, but for some reason every time I show in Empire CONCORD decides that, no, the week I spent shooting Sansha rats in Stain doesn't count after all and they still hate me.


You forgot to hit the spray and pay. That's dodging video game popo 101

I don't always use hax. But when I do, it's because I'm an NPC.. http://i.imgur.com/PUZou.jpg

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#71 - 2012-03-12 04:58:27 UTC
Cosmos Serendipity wrote:
Andski wrote:
Cosmos Serendipity wrote:
Part of the problem is the punishment system has a lot to be desired. Taking insurance payouts from gankers were just common sense but imo doesn't really go far enough.

Imortals should have a better punishment system than the one Eve has. For instance, when your in high sec and you blow up another citizen or kill them you shouldn't just be given the current "Community service" punishment that is currently in place.
What kind of punishment is chain killing a few priates in low or null? You can get sec status back up in hours/ days, then go right back to killing people inside of the factions space.

One thing to do is not only should the person take a sec status hit, they should take a hit to all corporations/ factions the victim had good standings with, the hit should be based on how good of standings the victim had with said corps/ faction.
They should also be banished from that factions space for a time limit, increasing with each offense, say a 3 strike rule. Say strike one is a weeks banishment, strike two a months banishment, strike three perma ban from that factions space where they are KOS to everyone. During the banishment period clone contracts in that area should also be revoked.

This will not make high sec totally safe, but it would require gankers to decide the risk verse reward, and would make more sense in a "highly evolved" society.

Sure people will make ganking alts, but thats just eve. As it is null is safer than high sec and doesn't even adress low sec, but with people being banished from high sec, at least after time the population would grow in low waiting to gank high and null sec dwellers as they pass through.

That being said, the risk verse reward needs to be totally revamped for all area's of space. (As though we don't know that)


your ideas suck

if you want risk-free pve go to wow thanks!!!


Where did I mention "Risk free pve"? Reading 101 ftw


Your idea discourages suicide ganking and punishes "offenders" with permanent banishment from hisec space. Get out.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Nikodiemus
Ganja Clade
Triumvirate.
#72 - 2012-03-12 05:04:25 UTC
Targeting like that is frequently used to make people panic and think less rationally. It is a strategy like any other. Also, easy and cheap way to unnerve the bears. :)
Valentyn3
Deep Core Mining Inc.
#73 - 2012-03-12 05:06:34 UTC
Nikodiemus wrote:
Targeting like that is frequently used to make people panic and think less rationally. It is a strategy like any other. Also, easy and cheap way to unnerve the bears. :)


It is pretty funny to watch people flip **** and mash warp to as soon as the beeping starts Cool

I don't always use hax. But when I do, it's because I'm an NPC.. http://i.imgur.com/PUZou.jpg

Pink Leaf
#74 - 2012-03-12 05:17:53 UTC
Simple, if people want pvp then go to low-sec. High-sec is suppose to be a safe haven for all those that want to play the none-pvp side of eve. Or maybe low-sec is to much of a challenge for all of these so-called pvpers.
Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#75 - 2012-03-12 05:30:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Ladie Harlot
Pink Leaf wrote:
High-sec is suppose to be a safe haven for all those that want to play the none-pvp side of eve.


Haha no it's not. If CCP didn't want ganks in high-sec they would remove the ability to activate offensive mods against other players.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Ismol Mond
Doomheim
#76 - 2012-03-12 05:31:49 UTC
When did it become the norm in mmorpgs that when the going gets tough players run to the devs to change the rules?
I can understand it in a little kids game like WoW but good old Eve?!
Why can't folks adapt to the environment? Other players can, why can't you? I know this is the entitlement generation but man you come to a game like Eve because it is a bit tougher than any game out there. That's is why most of us came to this game, the long gone steep learning curve, rl newsworthy scams, the last bastion of fairly ruthless pvp outside of muds but the moment adaption needs to take place I read another post asking the devs to change the rules.
Very depressing.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#77 - 2012-03-12 05:51:50 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Why would my pod being blown up stop me from suicide ganking? Sounds like pubbie logic.


So you're good with it.

Nice to see we're on the same page for once.

Mr Epeen Cool
Cosmos Serendipity
BRAHMA CORP
#78 - 2012-03-12 06:11:11 UTC
Andski wrote:
Your idea discourages suicide ganking and punishes "offenders" with permanent banishment from hisec space. Get out.



The 3 strike rule was an example, and yes it would discourage it, of course being a goon, you would find ways around it.

Would crime not be discouraged by any society? There would still be ganking, there would still be can flipping, there would still be baiting, and if they fix the war dec system there would still be wars, not to mention fw. You would just have to pick targets a little more carefully based on value or to cut enemy supply lines.

And bots don't typically have any sort of standings twoards any faction or corporation, so there would be little to no hit in those cases.
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#79 - 2012-03-12 06:25:49 UTC
I am a carebear, and I support suicide-ganking. It makes EVE a cruel and dangerous universe. I lost over 1b in stock from a suicide gank last year, but dusted myself off. I now have 5b in assets after a month. Please refer to this thread. If you are after a risk-free way of earning virtual money, just play a normal business sim and reload after every loss.

I am a carebear, and I support suicide-ganking

Quote:
Last week, I logged in shortly after downtime and saw that a courier contract I had put up earlier was still lying unfulfilled. Being the impatient pup that I was, I decided to haul the goods myself in a T1 industrial. All 1b ISK worth of goods. Since downtime only ended recently, the online population was "only" 5,000 so I figured the chances of avoiding a suicide-gank were good.

How wrong I was. Four jumps out of Jita, I suddenly found myself floating in a pod, 1b poorer. That 1b represented over half of my assets and I naturally asked myself the question every victim of a suicide-gank asks himself - "Should I continue playing this game?"

I exited, swore to myself to never play EVE again, opened up LOTRO and began the PVE grind in Middle Earth. After five minutes, I realised that accomplishments in games like WoW and LOTRO don't really mean anything. Since death is "risk-free" in these games, all accomplishments do is signify the time you spent in these games.

Not so in EVE. While accomplishments in EVE do require time as well, they also demand SKILL and INTELLIGENCE. If you lack the latter, this game will brutally punish you. Thus accomplishments in EVE are far more meaningful than in games like WoW or LOTRO. A mistake in WoW will only cost you inconvenience and a tiny bit of gold to repair your equipment. A mistake in EVE can cost everything.

It is this brutality that makes EVE so much more enticing. When you achieve something, you really achieve it. Suicide-gankers ensure there is no real safe zone in EVE. Success in EVE is earned, not given.

To all the suicide-gankers out there, thank you for making EVE an interesting place.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#80 - 2012-03-12 06:41:28 UTC
Cosmos Serendipity wrote:
The 3 strike rule was an example, and yes it would discourage it, of course being a goon, you would find ways around it.

Would crime not be discouraged by any society? There would still be ganking, there would still be can flipping, there would still be baiting, and if they fix the war dec system there would still be wars, not to mention fw. You would just have to pick targets a little more carefully based on value or to cut enemy supply lines.

And bots don't typically have any sort of standings twoards any faction or corporation, so there would be little to no hit in those cases.


With the current mechanics, you lose a ship, you don't get an insurance payout, and you take a sec status hit regardless of whether you kill the target or not. You will not stop complaining about suicide ganking until you simply cannot target another ship in high-sec.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar