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Buff mining Ship Defences?
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Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-03-11 17:08:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss Whippy
I'm just wondering if there's any particular reason why mining ships have such pathetic defenses? The small miner in high-sec has absolutely NO CHANCE against a wannabe ganker.

I just did a test with one of my alts. I dusted off my hulk and took it out for a mining OP in high-sec, and had my other alt hauling the rocks. Not 30 minutes after me doing this, a lone Thorax with a Sec of -1 had ganked my Hulk solo. Even with the extra buffage I'd added to the ship it was zapped in a matter of seconds.

With mining about to be taken as a serious profession again as the only real source of minerals, isn't it time we stopped making Mining Barges out of Glass?

I've been trying to work out what justification there could be for making mining barges so weak and pathetic, and I'm coming up with nothing. Wouldn't this solve a whole lot of problems? A lone Thorax shouldn't be able to wonder up to a barge in high-sec and destroy it long before CONCORD make an appearance.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-03-11 18:26:43 UTC
Quote:
A lone Thorax shouldn't be able to wonder up to a barge in high-sec and destroy it long before CONCORD make an appearance.


It can't, if you fit some tank to the Hulk and mine in higher security systems than 0.5. Being aligned and able to warp out if something looks like it's going wrong, and/or using an alt to summon CONCORD to the belt is also handy.

I mean it doesn't sound like you exactly made much effort to gank-proof your barge, so what do you expect is gonna happen?
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#3 - 2012-03-11 18:42:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Miss Whippy wrote:
A lone Thorax shouldn't be able to wonder up to a barge in high-sec and destroy it long before CONCORD make an appearance.

Why shouldn't it?

Seriously, why should an industrial ship be able to survive being attacked by a combat ship that has been set up specifically to kill industrial ships as quickly as possible for 15 seconds?
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-03-11 18:42:46 UTC
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Quote:
A lone Thorax shouldn't be able to wonder up to a barge in high-sec and destroy it long before CONCORD make an appearance.


It can't, if you fit some tank to the Hulk and mine in higher security systems than 0.5. Being aligned and able to warp out if something looks like it's going wrong, and/or using an alt to summon CONCORD to the belt is also handy.

I mean it doesn't sound like you exactly made much effort to gank-proof your barge, so what do you expect is gonna happen?


"Even with the extra buffage I'd added to the ship it was zapped in a matter of seconds."

Please learn to read, before you start making replies. It helps us all.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Wrath Arsten
Society for the prevention of cruelty to cyno alts
#5 - 2012-03-11 18:43:35 UTC
As above, a Thorax cannot solo gank a properly tanked hulk, even in 0.5. If your idea of a properly tanked hulk includes 2 MLU and 2 Cargo rigs, a Thorax solo can gank you even in 0.6...
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-03-11 18:48:55 UTC
Quote:
"Even with the extra buffage I'd added to the ship it was zapped in a matter of seconds."

Please learn to read, before you start making replies. It helps us all.


Linking the KM would be handy. You've not even stated what security status you were in, let alone ship fit.
Ashen Spiral
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-03-11 19:42:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Ashen Spiral
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Linking the KM would be handy. You've not even stated what security status you were in, let alone ship fit.

Linking the KM is not really necessary, since anyone who has flown a hulk already knows they are paper thin. At a certain point, it is possible to add extra tank by removing mining laser upgrades, but this severely hinders the ISK you earn for your time, which is already considerably lower than any other ISK earning activity.

Should high sec hulks be gankable? YES

Should a lone, poorly fit thorax be able to gank a well fit hulk before concord arrives? NO

Should two poorly fit thoraxes be able to do it? YES

In one Eve video, a new player comes to the aid of a hulk under assault. This is not actually possible, as hulks evaporate so quickly. Even if you are there waiting to shoot an aggressor, he can still typically finish the hulk off before he gets popped. Improving the Hulk's survivability, and thereby allowing him to call for player help, would go a long way towards making the game more enjoyable. Slowing the response time of concord would probably be necessary as well, but that could also help to appease the ganking community.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-03-11 19:51:16 UTC
Quote:
Linking the KM is not really necessary, since anyone who has flown a hulk already knows they are paper thin. At a certain point, it is possible to add extra tank by removing mining laser upgrades, but this severely hinders the ISK you earn for your time, which is already considerably lower than any other ISK earning activity.


Sums it up nicely: risk vs reward.
If you want to mine in 0.5 with no tank, well, your choice but don't complain when the inevitable happens...
Asudem
Black Spear.
#9 - 2012-03-12 00:37:51 UTC
bump
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-03-12 01:23:53 UTC
The mining barge is a tool that is meant to be guarded to do its task, including the exhumer
A ships tanking the belt is a role required in the world of Low and null sec mining

Buy putting a tank on the Ship you remove a role of a Mining op.
Roles Include
Booster,
Hauler,
Scout
Tank,
Mining Barge.

If a person wants a a tank he can equip a Rokh with a shield tank equip it with Mining Lasers, Mining up grades and Mining drones.
You should be able to produce as much ore as a Hulk at level 4 with out drones.

I would recommend making a BC (Ferox) equip it with a tech 2 Laser Optimization Booster and use it to tank the rats in the belt .
He can also warp out the squad of mining ships if something bad happens

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
tankus2
HeartVenom Inc.
#11 - 2012-03-12 03:41:07 UTC
I think the hulk becoming a glass house with today's ships is an example of good balance going bad.

Though instead of buffing the existing exhumers, let's get a few new exhumers in so that ORE no longer has a monopoly on such a lucrative market. Exhumers that, while their mining rate is reduced compared to their ORE counterparts, are certainly far more tanky. Perfect solo miners.

Where the science gets done
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2012-03-12 04:06:24 UTC
Ashen Spiral wrote:
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Linking the KM would be handy. You've not even stated what security status you were in, let alone ship fit.

Linking the KM is not really necessary, since anyone who has flown a hulk already knows they are paper thin. At a certain point, it is possible to add extra tank by removing mining laser upgrades, but this severely hinders the ISK you earn for your time, which is already considerably lower than any other ISK earning activity.

Should high sec hulks be gankable? YES

Should a lone, poorly fit thorax be able to gank a well fit hulk before concord arrives? NO

Should two poorly fit thoraxes be able to do it? YES

In one Eve video, a new player comes to the aid of a hulk under assault. This is not actually possible, as hulks evaporate so quickly. Even if you are there waiting to shoot an aggressor, he can still typically finish the hulk off before he gets popped. Improving the Hulk's survivability, and thereby allowing him to call for player help, would go a long way towards making the game more enjoyable. Slowing the response time of concord would probably be necessary as well, but that could also help to appease the ganking community.


This.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-03-12 04:09:57 UTC
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Quote:
Linking the KM is not really necessary, since anyone who has flown a hulk already knows they are paper thin. At a certain point, it is possible to add extra tank by removing mining laser upgrades, but this severely hinders the ISK you earn for your time, which is already considerably lower than any other ISK earning activity.


Sums it up nicely: risk vs reward.
If you want to mine in 0.5 with no tank, well, your choice but don't complain when the inevitable happens...


It's obvious you've never flown a hulk, you're oblivious to the fact that the "rewards" for high sec mining are NOWHERE near equal to the risk. This is why people shouldn't comment on things they clearly know nothing about.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-03-12 04:12:39 UTC
Gevlin wrote:
The mining barge is a tool that is meant to be guarded to do its task, including the exhumer


Says who?

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#15 - 2012-03-12 04:24:58 UTC
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Quote:
A lone Thorax shouldn't be able to wonder up to a barge in high-sec and destroy it long before CONCORD make an appearance.


It can't, if you fit some tank to the Hulk and mine in higher security systems than 0.5. Being aligned and able to warp out if something looks like it's going wrong, and/or using an alt to summon CONCORD to the belt is also handy.

I mean it doesn't sound like you exactly made much effort to gank-proof your barge, so what do you expect is gonna happen?


Eve has no gank-proof anything.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-03-12 04:28:32 UTC
The only point to fly a hulk is to tie yourself down like a goat to an asteroid belt and wait to die.

The reason as pointed out by the OP, hulks are targeted often because they die (cheap loss ratio, REALLY big bonus ratio). ****** tank thats thin enough a T1 cruiser can pop it in 10 seconds, AND even if you had a guard....you would still have people ganking them because its human nature to take the easy route. Their tank is so thin, that if it was lowsec players would still aim for them first. Nullsec, they have to get through and be spotted on intel channels but more then likely they will just AFK.

You can still put a tank on it, you can still use shield command mods, you can still watch local....but more often then not the guy doing it may have a buddy come along and you will still lose. Hulks are a pointless concept that should be removed from the game, **** miners sorry guys but you picked the wrong profession and just seeded minerals from NPC stores again at insanely high profits (100 isk trit Lol ). You went along ganking hulks, now you got to pay for it and those losses will hurt...think of a 30 mil rifter and imagine what a cruiser/battlecruiser will cost. No more casual play, you will enjoy the adversion to losing and grinding back the isk to buy expensive T1 hulls Twisted
Zombo Brian
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-03-12 08:52:45 UTC
no, hulks in high should be very gankable, if you dont want to lose a hulk, fly a covetor,

and if you want a hulk to be safe, go into 0.0 and mine there, much much safer and easier and even more money

if hulks would be too sturdy, mineral prices would go to hell, thats what hulkageddon is for
BeastlyRage
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-03-12 09:32:55 UTC
jimmy alt
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-03-12 11:42:09 UTC
A Long Long Long Time Ago. Lets say 5 years ago Hulks could be used as Pvp ships. Really good bait ships.

Example Video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndWUlntJ58U

Then CCP figured they are to tuff to kill becasue of such stunts. Then Nerfed the Hulk and a number of other ships that 2007 Winter expanstion into the F'in ground.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#20 - 2012-03-12 12:34:05 UTC
nerf CONCORD, make it easier/safer to gank people in hisec.

i.e. in 0.5, CONCORD doesn't show for GCC (navies do). You can avoid the navy legally*.
Now 0.5 sec mining fleets warrant having a defence fleet.


*change aggression mechanics to prevent docking. Jumping *MAY* be OK (i.e. priates can GTFO to low... if they GTFO to hi, well hilarity will ensue when CONCORD murders them on the gate). Navies can see through cloaks and stuff to keep people from safing up and cloaking.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
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