These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

EVE is 10 (TEN) years old....

Author
Herold Oldtimer
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#81 - 2012-03-15 15:10:47 UTC
The hud part in EVE need some love, true. And CCP even have at some point, don't quite remember where now since it was somewhere in the old forums, agreed that it needs some upgrading. I think it was not too long after this trailer was released, players started to question why information weren't presented like that in the game already, whereupon CCP said that it was one of their hopeful goals. So, hopefully that is being looked at. And that is how I want the hud to evetually look like aswell.

For the propulsion mechanics I don't really see anything spesific. There might be something, but I don't see it. And here you should really be specific. Are you talking about controller movement? Change movement in relation to vacum i.e. no friction? Or to add visual keys like forward thrusters to represent a ship stopping?

The last one could be easy since that is just adding some visual effects. Won't be very resourse heavy or take that mutch time to implement. But that would then clash with, say, ship wrecks that don't have anything to stop itself with. They would at the moment of the ships destruction start to drift away at the same speed the ship had prior to it. And would cause a lot of annoyances for players wanting to gather loots.

In the case of having the system represent vacum would cause a lot of the annoyances as above but here everything would drift. I don't see how having to chase after wrecks would be a good gameplay mechanic. And while controller movement sound cool, imagine the lag induced boredom it would be to turn a titan, or other cap ships. Controller movements would only be viable to the smallest ships. And that too might present great lag. I'm not against it, I just don't see how todays system can handle it.

And I don't see any suggestions to how it can be implemented, just that it should. And that don't give me mutch to go on.
Leto Aramaus
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#82 - 2012-03-15 17:32:27 UTC
No man, other than improving the HUD you haven't seemed to grasp any of the ideas that I'm suggesting, if you "can't see" the specific changes I talked about for propulsion I will copy and paste here for you to read. I understand there's a lot in this thread, but I was specific in several of my posts so you just need to be more thorough and not skim through as I'm assuming you must have done.

Here is the post that detailed what I meant by "basic gameplay mechanics" and "propulsion mechanics"

Quote:
If I had to choose one thing (and this one thing is really like, the whole game) it would be a change in propulsion. Here is my summed up idea for changing the way EVE plays....

Standard ship propulsion = used to fly around solar systems, station to station, planet to planet

Warp Drives = used to fly to other systems or just far outside your current system into deep space (ONLY able to reach nearby stars in the same "cluster"/constellation)

Stargates/Jump Drives = used to jump to other constellations/clusters of close stars
-so instead of every single system having a stargate, you would jump to a cluster and be in the first (most colonized?) system, then fly your ship to any nearby stars in the constellation with your warp drive

To go along with this, and my next biggest change, would be for our view/zoom-out-ability to encompass the entire system. So you could zoom all the way down to your ship the way we see it now, or zoom all the way out to see the solar system (fully created 3D planets, sun, moons...) and be able to ship spin, or planet spin, all in the same GUI/persistent world.

Then in turn, the game mechanics must change as such:
-remove local (which needs done anyway)
-ship sensors determine everything you can see (some ships see further than others, some have AU ranges, some have sensor ranges around the 400kms we have now


As for your last paragraph I really don't know where you got those ideas. I didn't say anything about "systems representing a vacuum" and I certainly don't think wrecks should float away.

I also didn't say anything about joystick or controller movement, but rather a simple hotkey to replace the current "double-click to fly" method of manual direction control. This hotkey would simulate the action of double clicking in the center of your ship and therefore fly in whatever direction your camera is pointing, allowing you to spin your camera, push a single button, and fly in any direction you choose.

I don't blame you for not reading the entire thread, and I'm actually glad you're making me repeat myself, as it gives me an excuse to bump my thread without breaking the rules and spamming.
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2012-03-15 17:53:56 UTC
OP is in the wrong game, go find a game that suits your needs rather than trying to completely change an existing one. Which is just stupid.

And stop sending begging letters out to try and get people involved in your fail ideas.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]

Velicitia
XS Tech
#84 - 2012-03-15 18:21:02 UTC
Ugh, your propulsion idea is terrible.

There are at least three systems nearby to me that you can get to a planet that is outside D-scan range of most of the rest of the system (so 14.5+ AU).

1 AU = 150m km
Fastest ships go about what ... 10k m/sec?

150m km = 1,5 trillion meters.
1,5t meters @ 10k/sec = 15m seconds
15m seconds = 4166.66 hours = 173 days.

so, ~6 months to get ONE AU.
In all, 7 years to get from whatever planet you're at to the next closest thing in the system. And that's with the fastest ships in the game...


One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Leto Aramaus
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#85 - 2012-03-15 22:07:28 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Ugh, your propulsion idea is terrible.

There are at least three systems nearby to me that you can get to a planet that is outside D-scan range of most of the rest of the system (so 14.5+ AU).

1 AU = 150m km
Fastest ships go about what ... 10k m/sec?

150m km = 1,5 trillion meters.
1,5t meters @ 10k/sec = 15m seconds
15m seconds = 4166.66 hours = 173 days.

so, ~6 months to get ONE AU.
In all, 7 years to get from whatever planet you're at to the next closest thing in the system. And that's with the fastest ships in the game...




HAH. hahahahha

You think I want to KEEP the current ship stats with these proposed changes?

Unbelievable you people.
Katie Frost
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#86 - 2012-03-15 23:20:40 UTC
Leto Aramaus wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Ugh, your propulsion idea is terrible.

There are at least three systems nearby to me that you can get to a planet that is outside D-scan range of most of the rest of the system (so 14.5+ AU).

1 AU = 150m km
Fastest ships go about what ... 10k m/sec?

150m km = 1,5 trillion meters.
1,5t meters @ 10k/sec = 15m seconds
15m seconds = 4166.66 hours = 173 days.

so, ~6 months to get ONE AU.
In all, 7 years to get from whatever planet you're at to the next closest thing in the system. And that's with the fastest ships in the game...




HAH. hahahahha

You think I want to KEEP the current ship stats with these proposed changes?


See this is one area that I don't quite agree with Leto... or maybe I do not quite understand the entire premise so please feel free to fill in the blanks.

From what I can gather though - I envisage that your proposal would intend to increase the ability of the standard propulsion system to traverse between planets, moons, sun, stations etc. in one solar system. This would suggest that ships would have to move some AU's per second (or something in that ballpark). So, basically this would call for the removal of the current grid system as it would become redundant with such high ship velocities and in fact the solar system would now be the new grid so to speak.

Although I can see merit in taking your idea and down-sizing it somewhat to still fit within what most of us are used to (i.e. having the ability to generate random warp beacons in the solar system as long as they are off grid; removing Local intel and improving ship scan abilities; among others), I cannot agree with the proposal overall. I am also unsure of the technical reprecussions of having an actively populated and interactable solar system as a single grid available to all players inside it.

Please do not take it as short-sightedness or entrenchment but I like EvE gameplay the way it is. Is it perfect? No. Can it improve? Yes. Does your idea achieve it? Maybe.

I do like the discussion though - even though some people are detracting from the topic.
Leto Aramaus
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#87 - 2012-03-16 00:09:52 UTC
Quote:
So, basically this would call for the removal of the current grid system as it would become redundant with such high ship velocities and in fact the solar system would now be the new grid so to speak.


Exacttttly Katie. You summed up quite well what I could not yet put into words.

I am willing to compromise on the complete opening of solar systems, for instance still using warp drives to go across the entire map.

But this thought recently came to mind when I was thinking about this thread...

Have you EVER seen a sci-fi movie, universe, fandom, story, etc... where the space ship's warp, jump, FTL, whatever, drive... is used to travel measly AU's from planet to planet? I have not.

Now of course this doesn't mean that EVE is wrong per se... but as far as I'm concerned it makes it feel like a cheap, low tech, very SMALL universe. Not the "giant, biggest MMO universe in the world" that CCP claims it is.

As I've said in this thread, EVE takes place in many TINY (compared to the actual amount of space available) little 400km cubes, and 99% of every solar system is completely unreachable.

I think it would be much more fun to travel in EVE, if you simply calculated your destination, hit warp, and were in warp for several minutes or even hours depending on how far you're going.

Not... warp to, jump. warp to, jump. warp to, jump. warp to, jump. warp to, jump.warp to, jump.warp to, jump.warp to, jump.warp to, jump.warp to, jump.warp to, jump.warp to, jump.warp to, jump.warp to, jump.warp to, jump.warp to, jump.warp to, jump.warp to, jump.warp to, jump.warp to, jump.warp to, jump.

you get my point.
Tarn Kugisa
Kugisa Dynamics
#88 - 2012-03-16 00:26:47 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Quote:

Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.




Space is not small, people
Its as big as the words of Douglas Adams describe it as

Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to troll everyone you meet - KuroVolt

Leto Aramaus
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#89 - 2012-03-16 00:30:02 UTC
That doesn't mean EVE has to have a boring and simplistic game engine and corner-cut propulsion mechanics from the 1990s.
Katie Frost
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#90 - 2012-03-16 01:16:47 UTC
Yes, interesting concept.

How do you envisage would this affect say, the current PvP model? Ship manoeuvring, transversal velocities, signature radius, weapon ranges and so on? I am imagining this entire system would need to be re-designed to support combat with ships moving in AUs/ps as opposed to meters/ps and would probably now reflect something you would see more in a space RTS as opposed to the current model.

Object interaction such as running into planets, moons, stations, asteroids, nebula, anoms and so on would need to be considered and redesigned right? These objects would no longer be arbitrary points in space but would rather require to have their own set of properties with which a player can interact. How do you envisage an entire solar system, upon solar system, upon solar system of these complex objects of which there would be hundreds, with 10s, 100s and 1000s of players interacting with them all at once, on one single grid, would work in technical terms? Is it even possible?

The Hamilton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2012-03-16 01:52:09 UTC
More than the game play that could be improved (I'm also undecided on the radical change to the propulsion suggested), I'm concerned with the way servers handle players, lag, objects and split this between server blades in your idea. Currently it doesn't take a lot in any MMO to bring a server crippled to it's knees. I wish it was an area that had improved more by now, but it really hasn't. So until we get quantum chips for CCP's fantastic imaginary amazing super cluster.

This is why WOW isn't "One Universe". CCP have cut corners specifically for this reason, and if they gave me the option of cool dynamic movement or single server for every player. I would always choose single server, because as EVE's advertising campaign states every two seconds "Be apart of something bigger". But if you know how to split the game up so we aren't always stuck in time dilation (a neat addition IMO) and still make it much easier for the tens of thousands of players to travel more easily I'd like to hear how you do it.

The in-system idea is still somewhat good. Although CCP would need to generate a lot more content in the systems to keep flying around like that interesting I'd expect. But when all players ever just punch in warp to Jita, you just gave everyone access to one system. Then the lag in blob battles will be NOTHING compared to 10,000 warping onto a single system to do their sales.

Perhaps punching in co-ordinates to jump up to 3 systems where you do a quick refuel, it would cut warp-to and jump by two thirds and may still keep the game from imploding, while also cutting out the warp-to (Warning: may upset players who put lore above gameplay).
Leto Aramaus
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#92 - 2012-03-16 02:51:55 UTC
Awesome responses guys

Katie I agree that the entire game's stats would need to be redesigned, and PVP would change, but I don't think it would as one poster suggested "completely kill PVP" if solar systems were opened up as single, real areas of space, which we could fly around manually.

I had stated earlier when someone asked if I was trying to make EVE a more reaction based game, that I'm actually intending quite the opposite... I imagine these changes would make EVE a slower paced more strategic game

I'm definitely no expert on server cluster mechanics, and how the current EVE system handles players, lag, etc... so I don't quite understand the limitations admittedly. So I would like if someone could explain to me, what would be the difference between separating each system into the "grids" that we have now, and making each solar system one single grid, with all players on it.

Is there chance this would even REDUCE server load?? Because instead of having to create a ton of separate 400km squared grids, the system would be one unit, albeit a big one, but my math-brain just sees that as numbers... what's the difference in technical terms and server lag amount between 10km and 10au

[quote]would probably now reflect something you would see more in a space RTS as opposed to the current model.[/quote

This is exactly right, it would be MORE like a space RTS, but I think it would not turn into one. We could still limit the speeds and ranges so that the entire system isn't available in seconds (Mass Effect), and our ships would still remain the focal point of our interface, being that everything we can see is relative to our ships location/stats.

Hamilton you are at least right about the server load problems if anyone could warp to Jita from anywhere in the galaxy. Which is why I was proposing (LIKE Mass Effect this time) that ships use warp to travel to adjacent star systems in the same constellation, but not have the range to go anywhere in the galaxy. I think this would make space in EVE ssoooooo much more interesting to have systems that you must manually fly to, taking anywhere from several minutes to several hours, while systems with stargates would be the "hubs" so to speak of activity.

As for PVP and players finding each other, there would obviously need to be mechanics implemented or changed to facilitate this. I picture ship sensors being streamlined into the main interface, instead of opening up a window to do a directional scan, and seeing the results in a box and a list, the things your ships long range sensors can see would be displayed IN space as brackets just like they are now, when they are on the same grid. Each ships "grid" would be different than another, based on ship stats and player skills, mods and sensor upgrades.

So one person may have a little hunting frigate that has a view range of 40 some AU, where he can zoom out and see you across the system, when you have no idea he is there. Where as a combat cruiser may not have the view range built in, but has to "focus" his ships sensors in one direction (much like D-scan now) to see if anythings out there. At 360 degrees you may be able to see, say... everything surrounding the current planet you're at, maybe a few thousand KM in every direction, but the more you focus in a tighter angle, the further your sensors can pick up. I would personally like to see dynamics like, ships hiding behind planets where most normal ships can't detect, but some elite sensor ship may just be able to.

To close, Hamilton I absolutely agree that I would rather keep the single universe over these new changes, but I honestly believe we have the technology to re-build EVE and make it more of a real environment, instead of these tiny pockets of space and extremely limited ship abilities.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#93 - 2012-03-16 03:00:16 UTC
Leto Aramaus wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Ugh, your propulsion idea is terrible.

There are at least three systems nearby to me that you can get to a planet that is outside D-scan range of most of the rest of the system (so 14.5+ AU).

1 AU = 150m km
Fastest ships go about what ... 10k m/sec?

150m km = 1,5 trillion meters.
1,5t meters @ 10k/sec = 15m seconds
15m seconds = 4166.66 hours = 173 days.

so, ~6 months to get ONE AU.
In all, 7 years to get from whatever planet you're at to the next closest thing in the system. And that's with the fastest ships in the game...




HAH. hahahahha

You think I want to KEEP the current ship stats with these proposed changes?

Unbelievable you people.


problem is that people (i.e. us meatbag players) are only so fast. We can't keep up with the game if the other guy is whizzing past us at 2 AU/sec and is only "on grid" or in targetting range or whatever for 1 second before being gone.

Yeah, yeah, I know people can catch pods and frigs at gates in the 1-2 seconds they're there ... but having to have that kind of twitch response for EVERY. *******. SHIP. would get even more tedious than mining.


Furthermore, I'm using maths based on current mechanics. Rather than try and belittle everyone who has something to say, how about you respond with something that actually helps your cause --> much like Katie had to do for you.

And, FYI, looking at other sci-fi ... they will either

1. Stick in orbit at one planet in one system
2. engage "warp 1" to whatever other planet they need to go to.

there's never "oh, we're gonna travel at 1m k/sec bewteen this planet and that planet over there"

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

The Hamilton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#94 - 2012-03-16 03:41:46 UTC  |  Edited by: The Hamilton
Leto Aramaus wrote:
Some good explanation about how to refine these ideas into a workable game.


I hope so

Anyway I'd like to focus on other aspects of the game that seem outdated or could use a massive overhaul

Things such as "crafting" or building items in other games are always being improved, made more visceral and actually playable. Yet EVE just uses a basic materials then click and wait approach. I think even a LITTLE addition to this could go a long way, but a big one could attract a huge number of sim/puzzle players (e.g spore, foldit, pipe mania, etc..). The addition of foldit with fancy graphics would have the added effect of helping real science. My thought's are to include simple animations for build orders, to actual building game-play to speed them up

Any other area's that could fit into a re-visioning of EVE?
Leto Aramaus
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#95 - 2012-03-16 04:42:05 UTC
Velicitia, you're still thinking in the old "grid" mechanics where a grid is only 400km squared, so a ship would be gone in seconds as you said... when I've clearly stated that ship sensor ranges and map view-ability would be completely changed.

Please read the posts, I just don't know what else to say to you.

As for in Sci-fi, I almost always see them flying ships around planets in seconds or minutes, across solar systems in hours, and using FTL drives to travel far far away into other stay systems or even galaxies.

Once agian please don't flame and say "well thats just NOT how it works in EVE"... I know, I'm just saying I'd rather see a more traditional space-flight system like what I was describing to Hamilton and Katie.

Ham I totally agree with improving other parts too, baby steps, it's going to take baby steps. Manufacturing is definitely something that could be much more fun, as well as mining. I wonder why there isn't already little random occurences in those professions like...

"Oh crap your mining laser has jammed/overheated/whatever and requires you to click this button or apply this cooling gel blah blah"

or

"during blueprint research your technical staff has discovered ____blank and if you so choose to invest another X amount of ISK or resources ___blank will occur and be totally awesome"

What do you think?
Blatant Forum Alt
Doomheim
#96 - 2012-03-22 09:50:51 UTC
Leto Aramaus wrote:
I wonder why there isn't already little random occurences in those professions like...

"Oh crap your mining laser has jammed/overheated/whatever and requires you to click this button or apply this cooling gel blah blah"

or

"during blueprint research your technical staff has discovered ____blank and if you so choose to invest another X amount of ISK or resources ___blank will occur and be totally awesome"


Did I really just read this ****?

Go back to runescape. Eve is not space-wow, nor is it space-runescape, we dont need idea men spamming the forums with unrealistic crap that adds nothing to the game.
Leto Aramaus
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#97 - 2012-03-22 17:49:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Leto Aramaus
Unrealistic crap?

So in real mining operations, drill bits never break....

and emergency random occurrences never happen...

and there's never any small on-the-fly adjustments you can do in industrial operations that could make things more effecient...

Yea those ideas are not only unrealistic, but SO lame. Who would EVER want to make otherwise boring professions in EVE have random and exciting events happen?


Flame someone who deserves it moron.

Edit: LOL especially @ "adds nothing to the game" I don't even mine or do ANY industry, and I would imagine things like this would add a lot to the game, as well as make mining bots much less profitable than active mining.

Grow the F**K up.
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2012-03-22 20:09:48 UTC
Please stop bumping this lame ass thread.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]

Leto Aramaus
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#99 - 2012-03-22 20:11:10 UTC
As you post on it lol

I only responded to this guy's inane remark about "unrealistic crap"

This thread has 5 pages b*tch... obviously its awesome =)

Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#100 - 2012-03-23 18:21:06 UTC
Leto Aramaus wrote:
As you post on it lol

I only responded to this guy's inane remark about "unrealistic crap"

This thread has 5 pages b*tch... obviously its awesome =)



Five pages of people telling you how **** your ideas are.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]