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EVE is 10 (TEN) years old....

Author
Leto Aramaus
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#1 - 2012-03-09 19:23:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Leto Aramaus
Yes we got a few (some major and awesome) graphical upgrades over the past year

Yes many new features, concepts, content, items, ships, whatever, etc.... have been added (some cool)

Sure CCP has done a decent job supporting the game that EVE has been this whole time (arguably in some cases)

but..

if EVE began in 2003 (and must have been in development at least a year before that), this game is 10 years old

in all those 10 years, never once has the actual game been re-designed, changed, or even updated.

in 10 years EVE is still the same spin around a ship with (meh) halfway decent looking space backgrounds... that are not even "interact-able"

e.g. I was just playing and looking at the beautiful new planets that they gave us a few expansions back, and think about it... it's 2012 and to look at a planet you go into "planet mode", which is a completely separate little applet from your normal HUD/view, and it creates the planet in an isolated environment with NO sun, NO other planets, NO ships... you get my point, right?

not yet?... EVE boasts about being this "large scale" MMO with a giant universe, but for 10 years it has really been a disappointingly small scale, and I'm the only one who seems to care

EVE takes place, pretty much, solely in a few 400km cubes, around stations, gates, one tiny spot on one side of a planet, etc..

Stations (actually every object in EVE) are copy-pasted throughout the whole galaxy, and there's no discernable visual difference between highsec, lowsec, nullsec, or anything at all really.

I've said this for years to people who see me playing EVE and ask what the hell is that..

-that nothing (visually) on the screen matters, it's all about numbers, stats, ranges, items in the boxes... NOTHING in the space that you can see means anything to the gameplay

i.e. that cool glowing light-ball with antennae and metal gadgets coming out of it... that doesn't mean SH*T. it's not doing anything, there's no reason or explanation for why its there, what it's connected to.... its just the random object CCP decided to name "Serpentis Data Terminal" and make the objective of your mission, to either destroy, or collect the unrelated items inside it


Our ships are RIDICULOUSLY slow. think about it, it takes an EVE ship hours (without warp drives) to fly from one side of a planet to the other, or from a planet to its moon (not that anyone ever does, or that there's ever anything on the other side of any planet) Everything is "unreachablely" far away, and doesn't make you feel immersed in a real environment at all

  • now some of you are going to say "Omg ****** thats what warp drives are for" or "omg ****** thats what space would be like, mostly empty and boring, everything IS far away".... but that's what I'm saying needs changed

  • A change in the basic mechanics of EVE spaceflight, gameplay, etc...

    I have tried to say this before, I think I posted about the complex changes that I imagine for EVE in the future, but this post is not about the specifics


    This post is only an attempt to try and raise awareness, and begin a discussion about the future of EVE


    Now everyone seems to flame harrrrd on any suggestions for major, drastic, gameplay changes that I have seen or posted myself. I understand..

  • CCP doesn't need to majorly change EVE because they're still growing, still getting new subscriptions with what they have, so why go above and beyond right?

  • most players don't need a major change because either this is all they know, and don't know or care enough to want it to be better, or they are rich/powerful in the game already, and frown on any changes to the game at all

  • but guys... don't you WANT it?

    CCP don't you want to make the coolest, newest, most innovative and fun space game? Don't you want EVE to be amaaaazing? not just satisfactory?

    Older players don't you guys want something new and different? don't you think EVE could be so much better?


    ** By 2012 shouldn't EVE be a seamless, large scale environment, with dynamic locations and real environments that you can interact with in intresting ways?

    Like I said, this post doesn't have any suggestions or specific ideas yet, because first I need to convince you all that EVE is simply outdated and could be as epic as is pretends to be...
    Velicitia
    XS Tech
    #2 - 2012-03-09 19:38:04 UTC
    Quote:

    Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.


    One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

    killorbekilled TBE
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #3 - 2012-03-09 19:52:08 UTC
    first i would like to say good post...seriously usually when i see that much writing i just hit the back button we all want the best of eve but its about how

    i hope you have some good ideas to back what your saying

    killor 07

    :)

    Nalha Saldana
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #4 - 2012-03-09 19:56:13 UTC
    Yes it would be great but it would pretty much be Eve online 2 and it would take years to rebuild all we have today. The game is still good so i would rather spend CCP's time on what we have and improve on that.
    Fredfredbug4
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #5 - 2012-03-09 20:07:38 UTC
    I think they should continue working on fixing this game than making an entirely new one.

    Plus if you have noticed MMOs don't really change at all. They are far to massive and time consuming to make a completely new game every year. That's why MMOs receive updates are certain intervals.

    Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!

    Leto Aramaus
    Black Fox Marauders
    Pen Is Out
    #6 - 2012-03-09 20:11:30 UTC
    Nalha Saldana wrote:
    Yes it would be great but it would pretty much be Eve online 2 and it would take years to rebuild all we have today. The game is still good so i would rather spend CCP's time on what we have and improve on that.



    I understand that sentiment Nalha but yes you are exactly correct, it would be EVE 2, which is exactly what I want. Yes it would take years to rebuild what we have, hence the title of my post... it has been 10 years

    So I, personally, would NOT rather see CCP spend their time simply adding new modules and "T3" and faction warfare to what we have... I would rather see a new, modern version of EVE, to its maximum potential.

    Quote:

    Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind- bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.


    Quote:
    now some of you are going to say "Omg ****** thats what warp drives are for" or "omg ****** thats what space would be like, mostly empty and boring, everything IS far away".... but that's what I'm saying needs change





    Leto Aramaus
    Black Fox Marauders
    Pen Is Out
    #7 - 2012-03-09 20:13:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Leto Aramaus
    Fredfredbug4 wrote:
    I think they should continue working on fixing this game than making an entirely new one.

    Plus if you have noticed MMOs don't really change at all. They are far to massive and time consuming to make a completely new game every year. That's why MMOs receive updates are certain intervals.


    See what I mean?

    The whole player base...


    "mehh.... I dont think EVE needs to be any better its good enough mehhhhhh"

    That attitude is what is keeping EVE from being awwwwesome. I personally want that to happen, nobody else seems to.

    Also Fredfred, I do not expect a new version of EVE every year... HENCE the title of my post... TEN years
    Nariya Kentaya
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #8 - 2012-03-09 21:40:13 UTC
    Leto Aramaus wrote:
    Fredfredbug4 wrote:
    I think they should continue working on fixing this game than making an entirely new one.

    Plus if you have noticed MMOs don't really change at all. They are far to massive and time consuming to make a completely new game every year. That's why MMOs receive updates are certain intervals.


    See what I mean?

    The whole player base...


    "mehh.... I dont think EVE needs to be any better its good enough mehhhhhh"

    That attitude is what is keeping EVE from being awwwwesome. I personally want that to happen, nobody else seems to.

    Also Fredfred, I do not expect a new version of EVE every year... HENCE the title of my post... TEN years

    the playerbase is NOT "meh, doens tneed to be any better"

    we see that the CURRENT system can be improved, you ahevnt even nearly seen THIS incarnation of eve's potential, especially since the dev's are still devving.

    fact is, eve is a SINGLE UNIVERSE, and i personally hope to never see a sequel, sicne eve is BUILT around player-history and the choices made, deleting all of that for an "eve 2" would nullify much of what makes Eve 1 UNIQUE.

    also, with incarna and the like, dev's have already proven they can rewrite game code to add completely new areas of the agme nothing like others (CQ was wonderfula dn you all know, you were just butthurt [so was i[ about the nex store ebing oevrpriced). I say why dotn you wait until the devs say eve cant be improed anymore, adn all the dead-horses and forgotten featuires have been reiterated, if eve is STILL terrible to you, then we wish you good day and good luck making your own MMO somehwere else.
    Leto Aramaus
    Black Fox Marauders
    Pen Is Out
    #9 - 2012-03-09 22:18:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Leto Aramaus
    Nariya Kentaya wrote:
    Leto Aramaus wrote:
    Fredfredbug4 wrote:
    I think they should continue working on fixing this game than making an entirely new one.

    Plus if you have noticed MMOs don't really change at all. They are far to massive and time consuming to make a completely new game every year. That's why MMOs receive updates are certain intervals.


    See what I mean?

    The whole player base...


    "mehh.... I dont think EVE needs to be any better its good enough mehhhhhh"

    That attitude is what is keeping EVE from being awwwwesome. I personally want that to happen, nobody else seems to.

    Also Fredfred, I do not expect a new version of EVE every year... HENCE the title of my post... TEN years

    the playerbase is NOT "meh, doens tneed to be any better"

    we see that the CURRENT system can be improved, you ahevnt even nearly seen THIS incarnation of eve's potential, especially since the dev's are still devving.

    fact is, eve is a SINGLE UNIVERSE, and i personally hope to never see a sequel, sicne eve is BUILT around player-history and the choices made, deleting all of that for an "eve 2" would nullify much of what makes Eve 1 UNIQUE.



    The fact that you personally hope to never see anything other than spin your ship around and look at nothing, is a testament to how "TERRIBLE" EVE and its playerbase currently is.

    I'm apparently right about how NOBODY wants to see EVE evolved into the next generation of space games, so I like to think I'm right about EVE needing to evolve into the next generation.

    Guys, its OLD. Super super old.

    Old and basic

    Ship spinning, everything copy and pasted, no scale or sense of location

    HOW am I the only one who wants EVE to be good?

    edit: also, I do not want to delete all the history or past of EVE, by EVE2, i mean a new game engine or major change to the current one.
    Nalha Saldana
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #10 - 2012-03-09 23:15:13 UTC
    I think the biggest problem and why people dont want this is because it would mean that ccp would have to stop doing anything to the eve we play and focus on eve2. So would you want to be taken away from eve for a few years to get this epic new game?
    Grey Azorria
    Federation Industries
    #11 - 2012-03-09 23:15:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Grey Azorria
    Leto Aramaus wrote:
    The fact that you personally hope to never see anything other than spin your ship around and look at nothing, is a testament to how "TERRIBLE" EVE and its playerbase currently is.

    I'm apparently right about how NOBODY wants to see EVE evolved into the next generation of space games, so I like to think I'm right about EVE needing to evolve into the next generation

    Guys, its OLD. Super super old

    Old and basi

    Ship spinning, everything copy and pasted, no scale or sense of locatio

    HOW am I the only one who wants EVE to be good


    You're not. Far from it

    Why do you think CCP is making Dust and Incarna?

    Though, what you fail to realise is that many, many people already think EVE is good.

    Now to try and disect you titanic OP. So, in no particular order

    The ships are slow for gameplay reasons, if everything moved 10,000km/s the game would be unplayable (impossible to be accurate in any way shape or form at such speeds)

    I (and many others, devs included) agree that EVE needs to present information better, it should not be spreadsheets online. Though I believe that this is being worked on. And the other art/interface stuff you mentioned, well the game is already a 10Gb download, how much bigger to you want it to be? (and it makes sense for stations to follow templates, though a little extra 'randomness' would go a long way)

    Also, you said EVE has never even been updated. I'd call Trinity a pretty major update, y'know the one where CCP completely redesigned the graphics engine.

    Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

    Sometimes when I post, I look at my sig and wish that I'd follow my own god damned advice.

    Corina Jarr
    en Welle Shipping Inc.
    #12 - 2012-03-09 23:18:51 UTC
    If you can name one long standing MMO (ie at least 10 years, matching EVE) that has gone through a change extensive enough to warrant a 2 label, let me know.
    Veluis
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #13 - 2012-03-09 23:19:22 UTC
    EVE is awesome.

    EVE is unique.

    EVE is about space*. (i mean actual design)

    CCP is doing there best to keep what have, in the first place, attract people to it, while trying to innovate. Not an easy task.

    Yet even after 10 years, EVE is still at the top of its genre, in all aspect of a game.

    *CCP have a bigger picture of what they want EVE to become, and overtime it will be a reality.
    Ganthrithor
    GoonWaffe
    Goonswarm Federation
    #14 - 2012-03-09 23:25:07 UTC
    Go hound the infinity team to hurry up.


    www.infinity-universe.com
    James Amril-Kesh
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #15 - 2012-03-09 23:25:49 UTC
    Leto Aramaus wrote:
    HOW am I the only one who wants EVE to be good?

    Maybe it's because you're the only one here who thinks it isn't.

    EVE is good. Could it be made better? Sure. But why are we looking for a sequel? EVE is EVE, a sequel just doesn't even make sense.

    You have to be trolling to say that all EVE is spinning ships and flying around looking at nothing. If that's all you're getting out of the game, it might explain why you're so upset.

    Try joining a PVP corp or alliance. Highsec, nullsec, doesn't really matter where. Have big space battles. Have fun with friends.

    Enjoying the rain today? ;)

    ShahFluffers
    Ice Fire Warriors
    #16 - 2012-03-09 23:32:38 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
    Hmmmm... I guess I can spare a moment from my vacation to post in a "clueless" thread (mostly because I'm "trapped" in my hotel room because the sun brings pain to my existence)

    Leto Aramaus wrote:
    The fact that you personally hope to never see anything other than spin your ship around and look at nothing, is a testament to how "TERRIBLE" EVE and its playerbase currently is.

    I'm apparently right about how NOBODY wants to see EVE evolved into the next generation of space games, so I like to think I'm right about EVE needing to evolve into the next generation.

    Guys, its OLD. Super super old.

    Old and basic

    Ship spinning, everything copy and pasted, no scale or sense of location

    HOW am I the only one who wants EVE to be good?


    Just because something is "old" and "basic" it doesn't make it "bad." In fact... many of the "limitations" you pointed out are there for a reason. For example:

    Quote:
    Our ships are RIDICULOUSLY slow. think about it, it takes an EVE ship hours (without warp drives) to fly from one side of a planet to the other, or from a planet to its moon (not that anyone ever does, or that there's ever anything on the other side of any planet) Everything is "unreachablely" far away, and doesn't make you feel immersed in a real environment at al


    There used to be a time where ships could move "stupid" fast. It was called the "Nano Age" and what happened during this time was that fast ships were virtually "untouchable" except by other ships that were also fast.
    You could not snipe, because EVE's hard coded locking range is limited to 249km (for whatever reason, must be a good one because they haven't touched it since EVE's inception) and ships could move fast enough that they'd be too far to lock at all.
    You could "ball up" into a ganky-tanky RR fleet... but you'd be hard pressed to actually grab anything (or anything long enough) and kill it.

    CCP decided that this was not good for overall gameplay and nerfed it... hard.

    In short... "playability" won out over "plausibility."

    And to be honest... this is a theme that occurs often in MANY games. EVE is nice because it strikes a nice balance between "realism" and "gameplay."

    Quote:
    -that nothing (visually) on the screen matters, it's all about numbers, stats, ranges, items in the boxes... NOTHING in the space that you can see means anything to the gamepla


    Look out the window. What do you see? How much of what is out there is actually going to affect your day overall? Will stepping on a few blades of grass on one end of your yard alter the growth of the daisies you planted on the other side? Same principle applies.
    Not everything you see HAS to have a purpose and/or affects you in any tangible way. Sometimes it's just... there... and it looks pretty... and/or it's just in the way.

    But... if you REALLY want things to mean something... role play it. Use that imagination of yours! Don't have a game do ALL the work for you.

    Quote:
    I was just playing and looking at the beautiful new planets that they gave us a few expansions back, and think about it... it's 2012 and to look at a planet you go into "planet mode", which is a completely separate little applet from your normal HUD/view, and it creates the planet in an isolated environment with NO sun, NO other planets, NO ships... you get my point, right?


    I refer you back to the first thing I quoted you on and reiterate the idea of "playability" over "plausibility."
    There is a good chance that having a sun and/or other objects to distract and/or obscure the details of a planet in "planet mode" will annoy players.
    A good example of this would be the probing screen. For a LOOOONG time it had some pretty annoying nebula effects that obscured quite a few details and forced you to alter your viewpoint multiple times just so you could see one little detail clearly. Those effects were removed so now all that can be seen is the skeletal frame of the star system itself... and many players have rejoiced.
    Herping yourDerp
    Tribal Liberation Force
    Minmatar Republic
    #17 - 2012-03-10 00:43:59 UTC
    eventually they will have to recode everything, but it won't be for a long time. slowly eve has gotten updated graphics and stuff, it sounds like you want a massive jump which i'm not for because it would cut off large chunks of the game population.
    Leto Aramaus
    Black Fox Marauders
    Pen Is Out
    #18 - 2012-03-10 15:13:42 UTC
    Corina Jarr wrote:
    If you can name one long standing MMO (ie at least 10 years, matching EVE) that has gone through a change extensive enough to warrant a 2 label, let me know.



    I can not. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. Another shining example of apathy and excuses.
    Leto Aramaus
    Black Fox Marauders
    Pen Is Out
    #19 - 2012-03-10 15:33:44 UTC

    Obviously I am not "clueless" since I've been playing EVE since 2006, and I have enough of that "imagination" to have some future vision for this game.

    Quote:
    Just because something is "old" and "basic" it doesn't make it "bad." In fact... many of the "limitations" you pointed out are there for a reason. For example:


    No it doesn't necessarily make it bad, but EVE is indeed old and bad. When I say this, everyone seems to think I hate EVE and think everything about it is bad and I want a whole new game... I don't.

    Same ships, same mods, same concept, same roles... new stats to match new engine capabilities.


    Quote:
    There used to be a time where ships could move "stupid" fast. It was called the "Nano Age" and what happened during this time was that fast ships were virtually "untouchable" except by other ships that were also fast.
    You could not snipe, because EVE's hard coded locking range is limited to 249km (for whatever reason, must be a good one because they haven't touched it since EVE's inception) and ships could move fast enough that they'd be too far to lock at all.
    You could "ball up" into a ganky-tanky RR fleet... but you'd be hard pressed to actually grab anything (or anything long enough) and kill it.

    CCP decided that this was not good for overall gameplay and nerfed it... hard.

    In short... "playability" won out over "plausibility."

    And to be honest... this is a theme that occurs often in MANY games. EVE is nice because it strikes a nice balance between "realism" and "gameplay."


    You Sir are the clueless one, along with everyone else who has that exact same reaction.

    "OH MY GOD... ships can't be any faster because the physics of the game dictates blah blah blah and then everything would be stupidly broken and impossible to hit/catch/see/anything...

    Except OBVIOUSLY I am suggesting that the gameplay (namely the propulsion system) be completely changed.

    I am not suggesting we keep the same ****** ship spinning engine where all action takes place in a 400km cube and make ships go hundreds of thousands of kM per second... I'm suggesting ships go hundreds of km per second in a redesigned world where that's what is meant to happen.

    Quote:

    Look out the window. What do you see? How much of what is out there is actually going to affect your day overall? Will stepping on a few blades of grass on one end of your yard alter the growth of the daisies you planted on the other side? Same principle applies.
    Not everything you see HAS to have a purpose and/or affects you in any tangible way. Sometimes it's just... there... and it looks pretty... and/or it's just in the way.

    But... if you REALLY want things to mean something... role play it. Use that imagination of yours! Don't have a game do ALL the work for you.


    This is quite possibly the lamest excuse/defense for EVE's boring, mostly content-less universe that I have ever seen. If you can't play EVE and see that everything is copy and pasted and there's close to nothing to look at or interact with... and you think thats just fine, well sir don't tell ME to get an imagination.


    Quote:
    I refer you back to the first thing I quoted you on and reiterate the idea of "playability" over "plausibility."
    There is a good chance that having a sun and/or other objects to distract and/or obscure the details of a planet in "planet mode" will annoy players.
    A good example of this would be the probing screen. For a LOOOONG time it had some pretty annoying nebula effects that obscured quite a few details and forced you to alter your viewpoint multiple times just so you could see one little detail clearly. Those effects were removed so now all that can be seen is the skeletal frame of the star system itself... and many players have rejoiced.




    Wow perfect. I refer YOU to myself who was just playing and doing some probe scanning yesterday. The solar system map is a boring and ugly piece of garbage. The background is not even black space with some little star dots, its an ugly solid blue/black with big fat lines of color hue, while the solar system map itself is broken and infuriating.

    You'll be trying to select or move probes and planet/moon lists pop up and get in the way, basically everything on the map takes click priority OVER your probes forcing you to... (wow look at that) spin around restlesstly before every scan/placement so you can get the right angle to move your probe or see how it lines up. So forgive me if I don't "rejoice" that CCP gave us a new (and barely better) scanning system than the ancient probe gameplay we had before.


    I'm gonna go ahead and dub this post clueless, as you obviously have no clue about fun or innovation or imagination.

    One more vote for "I don't want EVE to get updated at all because 10 year old game mechanics are FUN" team
    Leto Aramaus
    Black Fox Marauders
    Pen Is Out
    #20 - 2012-03-10 16:07:42 UTC
    Nalha Saldana wrote:
    I think the biggest problem and why people dont want this is because it would mean that ccp would have to stop doing anything to the eve we play and focus on eve2. So would you want to be taken away from eve for a few years to get this epic new game?



    Yes absolutely.
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