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Tier3 Battlecruiser for mission running
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Takara Yamamoto
Marauders Associated
Synergy of Steel
#1 - 2012-03-07 14:46:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Takara Yamamoto
Hi guys,

New eve pilot here, looking for ways to run missions with tier3 battle cruisers. Personally I like their looks Lol and well would kinda get them up and running for lvl4's instead of slow bs's or strategic cruisers which are kinda expensive and even more time/sp costly. I could fit the tier3 bc with t2 tank and t2 support mods like bcu II. From browsing the forums I know that they are "paper thin" and somehow a niche only thing for sniping in fleets but I really would like to fly them in missions too. As I'm Caldari and have a headstart in caldari cruiser III I would prefer to fly a Naga but would also cross train for Tornado, shield tanking for now... Is that viable and if yes, how should I go for it or should I totally forget about that idea?

Cheers,
Tak
Kata Amentis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-03-07 15:22:14 UTC
I've taken a "standard" mission maelstrom (x-large booster, 800mm ac) as a comparison as it's what I am familiar with and applied the fitting concepts to the Naga. There are no doubt other ways of fitting it, but for a quick looksee I'm using this.

[Naga, Mission theory]
Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II

Large Shield Booster II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Heat Dissipation Field II
Ballistic Deflection Field II
10MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II

Dual 250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
Dual 250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
Dual 250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
Dual 250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
Dual 250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
Dual 250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
Dual 250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L
Dual 250mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L

Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

hardeners are mission specific, but I'm going to assume therm/kin incoming fire for both Naga and Mael.

in comparison to the Mael, it's defence is just under half, and it has just under half the shield hit points and does just under half the dps... It does move a little faster (500 vs 300) with similar cap stability and has the same resists (basic t1 with same modules).

The problems start with the cap, the naga doesn't have the cpu to fit an x-large booster and will have to use it's large shield booster a lot more to take the incoming dps (if it can keep up). Without a defensive bonus to shield boosting you're looking at alot less "bang for your buck" on each rep cycle. So where the mael works by sparingly using it's x-large shield booster and recharging cap in between, you'll be on constant burn.

So the defence is weak... worse than that you have no drones and large guns. So tackler intis are going to be a real pain. Even with blasters (which fit on the above) I suspect you're going to struggle killing them went they get close, unless you sacrifice tank for additional tracking... but then you'll be dieing faster...

Last but not least, with less dps you're going to take longer to kill off rats and reduce the incoming dps, pushing your defences further and longer. You can up the dps by switching out for Mag Stabs, but you're reducing shield hp and cap stability for that...


From flying too many missions in the Mael, you don't always need it's full defence ability, but I'd make sure the Naga was insured before taking it out on some of the harder missions. If your still working on the battleship skill it might work quite well in a "gank" fitting helping out a corp mate, but as the main tanker, or a solo ship... I don't think so.

Disclaimier: purely theory crafting, haven't had the pleasure of flying one yet Lol

Curiosity killed the Kata... ... but being immortal he wasn't too worried about keeping a count.
Grikath
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-03-07 15:33:48 UTC
Welll... nothing really stops you from flying them in missions. There are, however, a couple of problems with tier 3 BC's in missions.

- Tier 3 BC's are set up to carry BS sized weapons on a BC hull. The naga is a gunship, whereas the standard Caldari progression is in missiles. This would mean you would have to train the whole Rail range up to BS for T1 guns, and almost all of the T2 range, besides the gunnery support skills.
This is a rather rough deviation from the "normal" Caldari training regimen, and would basically make the rest of the Caldari range a lot less effective for you.

- Missions , especially L4 and L5 have a lot of sustained DPS, requiring a seriously deep tank with good regen.
T3 BC's are not designed to carry this type of tank very well. They are designed to carry a pvp type tank which can work in missions, but makes life really, really hard.

- Tier 3 BC's have no drones..... which means you will be trying to shoot cruisers and frigates with BS sized weapons.... good luck...

- Tier 3 BC's are highly specialised in their role as pvp snipers. As with anything in EVE or RL, if you take a specialist out of it's niche it will underperform, if not flail magnificently.


For half the effort you can train up a decent Drake, which can run L4's (slowly) and even L5's (very slowly) even with a T1 tank and T1 missiles if you Do It Right. Hell, I've solo'd L5's in a Drake.

It's not that a Naga in a L4 mission is impossible, it's more a matter of "Why would you go through the bother, except out of academic curiosity" .

Highsec isn't "Safe".  Neither is it a playground for bullies and bottomfeeders. So stop complaining and start playing the game already.
Takara Yamamoto
Marauders Associated
Synergy of Steel
#4 - 2012-03-07 15:50:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Takara Yamamoto
Thanks for both your comments, good info. Essence seems to be: don't do it other for the lulz.

Guess I'll stick to the plan to progress from drake into raven. On another note though just because you got me thinking again regarding maelstrom vs. caladaris missile boats in their utility for incursions later. Should I even train for the rokh or just crosstrain asap for maelstrom and forget about hybrid weapons. I like dps a lot (not tanking though What?) and love to avoid lots of isk like in nightmare or machariel etc Lol.

Cheers,
Tak
Kata Amentis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-03-07 16:05:51 UTC
I've flown with maels and rokhs in incursion fleets, both work well (I've always done logi so haven't actually flown one out there).

You might run into some snobbery against the raven though, there's an argument against the missiles boats in incursion fleets as it takes times for the missiles to get out to the initial rat spawn distances, whereas gun ships can be popping ships out at that range. Although the Rokh would also fit into that it does alot more dps once they get in close... depends on who you're flying with i guess.

Whilst we're discussing it, having seen heavily tanked bs drop to less than half shield scarily fast, I'd expect tier 3 bc's to get popped in incursions too, I don't think they'd have the raw hp to take an alpha strike from a wave.

Curiosity killed the Kata... ... but being immortal he wasn't too worried about keeping a count.
Jouron
Hadon Shipping
#6 - 2012-03-07 16:41:47 UTC
The talos has a drone bay. Which is helpful for killing anything trying to web you.

Ive been trying like hell to come up with a talos that can run missions. Your best bet is relying on speed to tank things in the mission.

Make sure youve got a AB at the very least and the ability rep. quickly. Damage tends to spike quickly on tier 3 bc in lvl 4's when one or more elements turn against you in a mission ie you get webbed and your transversal drops. Or you get painted and your signature balloons.

Do what I did. Come up with fits then run them in SISI before you actually put real isk on the line. Theres a handful of lvl 4 missions that had some scary moments but I tore through them pretty fast with one talos fit. Then I tried running "The damsel" with the same fit and got wtfbbqpwnd after warp in.
Liam Mirren
#7 - 2012-03-07 17:05:18 UTC
Naga doesn't have the drones to deal with small targets in lvl 1-5 missions
Naga doesn't have the tracking to hit smaller stuff in lvl 1-5 missions
Naga doesn't have the tank to survive lvl 3-5 missions

In other words, it's useless at it. It's great as a support dps ship when you join someone else who's running missions and it can do belt ratting in low sec/0.0 to an extend. Other than that it's a pvp ship.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Tidurious
Blatant Alt Corp
#8 - 2012-03-07 19:31:17 UTC
The Mael is the best L4 mission running boat out there, in my opinion. I would recommend it for ANYone looking to run L4 missions in T1 ships.