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Darius III is trying to buy votes with scams of plex for votes and i have proof.

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Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#141 - 2012-03-09 10:30:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallian Saotome
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:
My bad EC- yes been years since i been out that way all the system names get jumbled.. But i remember something about ye loosing sov because someone "forgot" to pay sov bills and a hole load of antics ensued due to not being able to access JB's for fleets. This went on for weeks.

Thats goons, not FA, and that was in delve, not pure blind.

Edit: full history, that was the death of GoonSwarm, which lead to the creation of GoonSwarm Federation and them ultimately inheriting deklein, one of the choicest regions in the game.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#142 - 2012-03-09 10:34:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Sasha Azala
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Sasha Azala wrote:

Except it does not work that way, because he'll earn the votes from scammers (as you put it) but also he'll get the votes he says he does not want (in effect) the scammed.

Which is miniscule compared to what he needs.

You have a VERY low opinion of eve players if you think he can scam up more than 100 or so votes this way, and even that number is pretty much saying I have no faith in humanity. The only people who fall for this are those who wouldn't vote already, yet are greedy enough to overcome the apathy that was preventing them from voting.

There are alot of terrible people in eve, and alot of stupid people, but not a whole lot of people who are both terrible AND stupid.



No I don't have a low opinion of EVE players, for the majority of EVE players I have a completely neutral opinion for the simple reason I don't know the majority of EVE players.

Scamming is used ingame and accepted ingame by most people. Scamming in RL is generally not accepted. The CSM is a group selected to represent players in RL not as just part of the game. So it should be counted in RL and not as an extension of the game.

Lots of those terrible people in EVE are not terrible in RL, you seem to be confusing the game with RL components.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#143 - 2012-03-09 10:40:41 UTC
Sasha Azala wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Sasha Azala wrote:

Except it does not work that way, because he'll earn the votes from scammers (as you put it) but also he'll get the votes he says he does not want (in effect) the scammed.

Which is miniscule compared to what he needs.

You have a VERY low opinion of eve players if you think he can scam up more than 100 or so votes this way, and even that number is pretty much saying I have no faith in humanity. The only people who fall for this are those who wouldn't vote already, yet are greedy enough to overcome the apathy that was preventing them from voting.

There are alot of terrible people in eve, and alot of stupid people, but not a whole lot of people who are both terrible AND stupid.



No I don't have a low opinion of EVE players, for the majority of EVE players I have a completely neutral opinion for the simple reason I don't know the majority of EVE players.

Scamming is used ingame and accepted ingame by most people. Scamming in RL is generally not accepted. The CSM is a group selected to represent players in RL not as just part of the game. So it should be counted in RL and not as an extension of the game.

Lots of those terrible people in EVE are not terrible in RL, you seem to be confusing the game with RL components.

Funny, I am voting for someone to represent my IN-GAME interests, and therefor need to know that they understand my concerns. In my case, its nullsec issues. For scammers, it having someone on the CSM who has a vested interest in protecting the scamming/griefing lifestyle: AKA, a fellow scammer.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Nirnias Stirrum
UberWTFBBQ and Battle Technologies
#144 - 2012-03-09 10:45:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Nirnias Stirrum
Nah wasnt goons man, this was a long time ago though, about 2 years i think before the fall of NC. And it was definitely in Pure Blind cause i lived there at the time. Back then EC- was actually a fun active system.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#145 - 2012-03-09 10:47:38 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Sasha Azala wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Sasha Azala wrote:

Except it does not work that way, because he'll earn the votes from scammers (as you put it) but also he'll get the votes he says he does not want (in effect) the scammed.

Which is miniscule compared to what he needs.

You have a VERY low opinion of eve players if you think he can scam up more than 100 or so votes this way, and even that number is pretty much saying I have no faith in humanity. The only people who fall for this are those who wouldn't vote already, yet are greedy enough to overcome the apathy that was preventing them from voting.

There are alot of terrible people in eve, and alot of stupid people, but not a whole lot of people who are both terrible AND stupid.



No I don't have a low opinion of EVE players, for the majority of EVE players I have a completely neutral opinion for the simple reason I don't know the majority of EVE players.

Scamming is used ingame and accepted ingame by most people. Scamming in RL is generally not accepted. The CSM is a group selected to represent players in RL not as just part of the game. So it should be counted in RL and not as an extension of the game.

Lots of those terrible people in EVE are not terrible in RL, you seem to be confusing the game with RL components.

Funny, I am voting for someone to represent my IN-GAME interests, and therefor need to know that they understand my concerns. In my case, its nullsec issues. For scammers, it having someone on the CSM who has a vested interest in protecting the scamming/griefing lifestyle: AKA, a fellow scammer.



The issue is not the fact he scams ingame (normal game play) but he scams for votes to be elected to be part of a RL group.

If a politician was exposed as obtaining votes through unfair means, what would be the result?

Even 100 votes might not seem a lot but if it was a close race for the last CSM position it could make all the difference.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2012-03-09 10:50:31 UTC
Sasha Azala wrote:


The issue is not the fact he scams ingame (normal game play) but he scams for votes to be elected to be part of a RL group.

If a politician was exposed as obtaining votes through unfair means, what would be the result?

Even 100 votes might not seem a lot but if it was a close race for the last CSM position it could make all the difference.


Is brainwashing people, and doing repetitive circles "unfair means"
I mean People ellect someone because, hey they are good they want to do all the best for us
then they screw everything up, to allow the other party for an ride
And circle continues, there is no such thing as pollitics, it is an theatre and i think the play is not an comedy.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#147 - 2012-03-09 10:58:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallian Saotome
Sasha Azala wrote:

The issue is not the fact he scams ingame (normal game play) but he scams for votes to be elected to be part of a RL group.

If a politician was exposed as obtaining votes through unfair means, what would be the result?

Even 100 votes might not seem a lot but if it was a close race for the last CSM position it could make all the difference.


Last year when him scamming for votes was new and fresh, he came in last place of the people who made it as alternates with 951 votes. Turn out this year is much, MUCH higher, so I honestly doubt he will make it at all.

And in RL if a candidate was caught rigging an election his party would throw money at the issue til it was hidden from view (*coughcoughFloridacough*) at least in eve we know who he really is, instead of what the media is paid to portray him as.

Also, part of a RL group who does nothing but talk about the GAME.

He is, once again, demonstrating that he knows what the issues his constituents face. That doesn't mean he is going to scam CCP, and if he manages to scam the other CSMs, well.. lul.

Edit: cleaning up quotes.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#148 - 2012-03-09 11:06:10 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Sasha Azala wrote:


The issue is not the fact he scams ingame (normal game play) but he scams for votes to be elected to be part of a RL group.

If a politician was exposed as obtaining votes through unfair means, what would be the result?

Even 100 votes might not seem a lot but if it was a close race for the last CSM position it could make all the difference.


Is brainwashing people, and doing repetitive circles "unfair means"
I mean People ellect someone because, hey they are good they want to do all the best for us
then they screw everything up, to allow the other party for an ride
And circle continues, there is no such thing as pollitics, it is an theatre and i think the play is not an comedy.



People elect politicians, because they are wearing a red badge or a blue badge. Majority of voters don't really know what they're voting for as they never look into very deeply. Or they might pick up on one point of a candidates agenda and vote for that reason without even considering the rest of the agenda. Plus quite often when they get elected they don't do what they say they were going to do anyway.

I don't think I've ever been brainwashed so I wouldn't know about that. I tend to make up my own mind.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#149 - 2012-03-09 11:08:13 UTC
Sasha Azala wrote:
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Sasha Azala wrote:


The issue is not the fact he scams ingame (normal game play) but he scams for votes to be elected to be part of a RL group.

If a politician was exposed as obtaining votes through unfair means, what would be the result?

Even 100 votes might not seem a lot but if it was a close race for the last CSM position it could make all the difference.


Is brainwashing people, and doing repetitive circles "unfair means"
I mean People ellect someone because, hey they are good they want to do all the best for us
then they screw everything up, to allow the other party for an ride
And circle continues, there is no such thing as pollitics, it is an theatre and i think the play is not an comedy.



People elect politicians, because they are wearing a red badge or a blue badge. Majority of voters don't really know what they're voting for as they never look into very deeply. Or they might pick up on one point of a candidates agenda and vote for that reason without even considering the rest of the agenda. Plus quite often when they get elected they don't do what they say they were going to do anyway.

I don't think I've ever been brainwashed so I wouldn't know about that. I tend to make up my own mind.


Well brainwahsed is probably harsh word. But in the certein context we all are. We are born in "some societies" and we are thought to think alike, get morals based on the society we live in etc.

In that we all are victims.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#150 - 2012-03-09 11:15:41 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Also, part of a RL group who does nothing but talk about the GAME.



So the point is they need to know the game well, I'd agree with that.

But that does not make scamming for votes an acceptable vehicle to be elected by.





I will point out again at this stage that these are my views, I have no idea what CCPs views are about this although it would be interesting to know.
Fer DeLance
Nano Rhinos
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#151 - 2012-03-09 11:22:04 UTC
There is a good percentage of scamers and lamers in the game, and they deserve to be represented by at least one scamer and lamer in the Council. It would just be unfair if there wasn't anyone of them in the Council.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#152 - 2012-03-09 11:22:43 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Well brainwahsed is probably harsh word. But in the certein context we all are. We are born in "some societies" and we are thought to think alike, get morals based on the society we live in etc.

In that we all are victims.



I always used to be a rebel and question everything. My views are my own, of course some of those views are shared by others but my views are based on what I think is right not what someone else thinks is right.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#153 - 2012-03-09 11:28:11 UTC
Sasha Azala wrote:
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Well brainwahsed is probably harsh word. But in the certein context we all are. We are born in "some societies" and we are thought to think alike, get morals based on the society we live in etc.

In that we all are victims.



I always used to be a rebel and question everything. My views are my own, of course some of those views are shared by others but my views are based on what I think is right not what someone else thinks is right.


Well, this is an discussion for different topic. But just out of curiosity how do you describe an "My views" and "My own" as clearly we are nothing more then an biological machines, the electro-chemical reactions are well beyond our reach. We dont have any "own ideas" or "own opinions". We just have an idea and an opinion based on reactions which are beyond our ability to control.

Sure for the sake of "sapient" life we like to think that we actually are able to control our thoughts, but it is not like it.
Everything is based on one true feeling called fear. Fear controlls everything, your lower processes chose to fight it or accept it, depends mostly on chemicals your body produce.

Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#154 - 2012-03-09 11:34:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tallian Saotome
Sasha Azala wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Also, part of a RL group who does nothing but talk about the GAME.



So the point is they need to know the game well, I'd agree with that.

But that does not make scamming for votes an acceptable vehicle to be elected by.

I will point out again at this stage that these are my views, I have no idea what CCPs views are about this although it would be interesting to know.

Its a political thing. People want to vote for people like them. A farmer is more likely to vote for a retired farmer than a retired software engineer. Its no different than the political ads in Texas of Rick Perry(our governor who tried to run for president) riding a horse working a lasso. He wanted to demonstrate that he too, worked on a ranch like so many Texans did as kids.

Edit: Respect for reformatting as a pointless debate instead of a 'CCP DO THIS NAO' demand as most posts look like on these forums Cool

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#155 - 2012-03-09 11:37:13 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Sasha Azala wrote:
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Well brainwahsed is probably harsh word. But in the certein context we all are. We are born in "some societies" and we are thought to think alike, get morals based on the society we live in etc.

In that we all are victims.



I always used to be a rebel and question everything. My views are my own, of course some of those views are shared by others but my views are based on what I think is right not what someone else thinks is right.


Well, this is an discussion for different topic. But just out of curiosity how do you describe an "My views" and "My own" as clearly we are nothing more then an biological machines, the electro-chemical reactions are well beyond our reach. We dont have any "own ideas" or "own opinions". We just have an idea and an opinion based on reactions which are beyond our ability to control.

Sure for the sake of "sapient" life we like to think that we actually are able to control our thoughts, but it is not like it.
Everything is based on one true feeling called fear. Fear controlls everything, your lower processes chose to fight it or accept it, depends mostly on chemicals your body produce.




Quite simply, you have the ability to reason therefore you have the ability to workout what you consider to be right. Of course your views will be based upon the data available to you. So it's up to you to collect as much data as possible, which is why I used to question everything.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#156 - 2012-03-09 11:45:53 UTC
Logic is clear.
Reason is not.

I could probably discuss your previous point, however my arguments are somewhat flawed.
As the reason is there for some, and some may actually find it logically correct, i do not.

// Human behaviour //
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#157 - 2012-03-09 11:47:36 UTC
Chemicals in your brain have been proven to modify your reasoning, so views are not ever based purely on data and logic/reason.

There is your argument point, gogogogo!

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#158 - 2012-03-09 11:49:30 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Chemicals in your brain have been proven to modify your reasoning, so views are not ever based purely on data and logic/reason.

There is your argument point, gogogogo!


Thanks, that is actually what i tried to write, but i did it in more words. Big smile
Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#159 - 2012-03-09 11:59:10 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Chemicals in your brain have been proven to modify your reasoning, so views are not ever based purely on data and logic/reason.

There is your argument point, gogogogo!



Are you talking about additional chemicals (drugs) or chemicals produced in the brain (emotions)?

Emotions get in the way of logic/reasoning so do drugs. Also diseases and tiredness can effect logic/reasoning.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#160 - 2012-03-09 12:01:50 UTC
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Chemicals in your brain have been proven to modify your reasoning, so views are not ever based purely on data and logic/reason.

There is your argument point, gogogogo!


Thanks, that is actually what i tried to write, but i did it in more words. Big smile

Way back in high school I drove teachers nuts by writing perfect essays that were still 1/3rd the minimum length, yet still were technically correct and thorough.

While the years since have dulled most of my academic skills, I can still be concise as hell. Cool

Apparently still a dork tho Lol

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.