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Ships & Modules

 
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self-rep ships bonus suggestion

Author
Mukun
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2012-03-07 02:35:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Mukun
have u considered to give all self-rep ships ( hyperion, maelstrom, brutix etc ) an extra bonus like "recieve x% more rep amount from remote repair modules " ? self-rep bonus is a huge waste in a fleet with logi ships now, and those ships can not get any more tank like ships with armor / shield resistance in large fleet. it is not that fair. hope u ccp guys can think about it
Hua Gozen
#2 - 2012-03-07 02:38:16 UTC
This just in: Not all ships are designed to be optimal in fleets.
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#3 - 2012-03-07 07:24:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Ships with active tank bonuses are geared toward smaller engagements, where active tanking is somewhat viable.

Interestingly, though, the amount of dps able to be repped by an active bonused ship and a resist bonused ship is very similar. If I recall correctly, the difference between an active abaddon and hyperion is something like 3% (in favor of the hype), given a similar resist configuration.

thhief ghabmoef

Aethlyn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-03-07 10:34:11 UTC
You just need a different logistics approach for these ships, if you'd like to use or profit from the defensive bonus (i.e. use energy transfer instead or shield transfer or remote repairers). I know it's sub optimal with neutralizers and vampires around, but it's simply their counter.

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To mare
Advanced Technology
#5 - 2012-03-07 11:15:49 UTC
Hua Gozen wrote:
This just in: Not all ships are designed to be optimal in fleets.


the point is a a ship with a +5% resistance per lev and its designed to passive tank and get all the pros of it its equally effective as a +rep at active tanking


in comparison a +rep ship get only half a bonus compared to a +res ship
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#6 - 2012-03-07 12:53:32 UTC
Yeah it turns out that the ships with resist bonuses benefit from both passive/local tank and RR but meh, that's just how it fell.

IF there were even to be an additional rep bonus on those ships it would be nice to see something like 5% bonus per level to overloaded repper bonus. So you could get even more local tank for a short time when overloading.

The thermodynamics mechanic should stop this being too OP.

Just sayin'

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Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#7 - 2012-03-07 12:54:05 UTC
While I dont think this is true of most ships, one ship I feel should be changed to a resist bonus is the Claymore, as its designed to operate in large fleets.
Brotha Umad
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-03-07 13:10:53 UTC
^This, if we are ever to see a CS on a battlefield one day.
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#9 - 2012-03-07 13:12:01 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
While I dont think this is true of most ships, one ship I feel should be changed to a resist bonus is the Claymore, as its designed to operate in large fleets.


Actually, I'm pretty sure the Claymore is designed to be more of a small gang boosting ship (same as the Scimitar is for Logi). In which case, the rep amount bonus makes perfect sense.
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#10 - 2012-03-07 13:59:16 UTC
Well yes, and no, if you have a claymore in gang its pretty much an assurity you have at least two Scimitars (Which are, as your probably know, used in most shield gangs, both small and large) in which case a resist bonus would be far more helpful, in fact to be honest, I have never really seen a Claymore with an active tank, because any gang that warrants one is generally too large for an active tank to work anyhow.
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#11 - 2012-03-07 14:32:16 UTC
5% resistance bonuses give the same amount of active tank bonus as 7.5% repair amount. This is why resistance bonused ships can be active tanked just as well as the active tanked bonused ones. For proof, check the harpy vs hawk. The harpy has a 25% resistance bonus while the hawk has a 37.5% shield boost amount bonus. It works out to the same active tank for both ships using identical fits, the harpy however has about 25% more buffer due to the higher resists. That's not to say the hawk is bad, I actually like it better than the harpy (extra midslot).

In any case, I agree that something needs to be changed but I don't think an RR amount bonus is appropriate. As said, not everything needs to be optimized for fleets. I think a simple buff to the active repair amount bonus would be sufficient. Perhaps making it 10-15% per level instead of 7.5%. The idea behind such a change is active tank should be absolutely superior to buffer in 1v1 or 2v2 without having to resort to implants, links and drugs. With those items, I think it should be viable small gangs of up to around 5-8 vs the same.

Alternatively, it could be a 7.5% repair amount and cap usage reduction per level. Such reduced cap usage would not inheritable increase their active tanking ability, but would make it a little less vulnerable to neuting. Neuts would still remain the primary counter to it, it would just take a little more. So their wouldn't be any improvement in small gang ability, but it would be a little more survivable 1v1 or 2v2.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]

Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
#12 - 2012-03-07 14:50:38 UTC
An Alphamael has about 130k EHP and you want to give this ****** a tankbonus for fleets? Go away.

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 

Mukun
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2012-03-07 15:06:50 UTC
Luba Cibre wrote:
An Alphamael has about 130k EHP and you want to give this ****** a tankbonus for fleets? Go away.


hellcats can have more than 150k EHP
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
#14 - 2012-03-07 15:15:24 UTC
Mukun wrote:
Luba Cibre wrote:
An Alphamael has about 130k EHP and you want to give this ****** a tankbonus for fleets? Go away.


hellcats can have more than 150k EHP

Thats why they're hellcats.

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise." 

Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-03-07 15:32:02 UTC
Brotha Umad wrote:
^This, if we are ever to see a CS on a battlefield one day.


What? Claymores, Vultures and the similar ones for armor fleets are used every day in battle. Sure quite often they sit in POSes and/or safe spots but far from always.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#16 - 2012-03-07 16:01:26 UTC
some bonuses are better than others. active rep bonuses are entirely inferior to resistance bonuses. This is well understood, not some hidden weakness. There's nothing wrong with ignoring active rep bonuses if it means you'll get better performance by doing so for the role you intend for the ship. Yes, i would love it if the armor rep bonuses were changed to resistance bonuses on gallente ships, however I also acknowledge that it would be a significant boost and could upset ship balance.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-03-07 16:20:54 UTC
If the bonus is inherently inferior it should be increased to parity.
To mare
Advanced Technology
#18 - 2012-03-08 06:07:27 UTC
Luba Cibre wrote:
An Alphamael has about 130k EHP and you want to give this ****** a tankbonus for fleets? Go away.

i think the point its not to make them better at passive tanking but to give an adge to x rep bonused ship over x res ships at active tanking.
if you look at the stat the abaddon can have the same active tank than the hyperion using the same amount of lows and the rokh can have the same active tank of a mael with the same amount of meds and on top of that bot the res bonused ship have more EHP so they can active tank longer.


change the rep bonus to +10% per level
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#19 - 2012-03-08 11:08:16 UTC
IMO the rep bonus should come with a reduction in the damage to self rep modules when overloaded, such that you can overheat them for longer.

Something like 10% per level, so the final time you can run with heat is 150% the current level. The problem with rep bonus ships is you often fit several reppers (armour at least) and the heat damage means you overheat before you've repped enough that a standard buffer wouldn't have just been the better option.

Hopefully that makes sense.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,