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Rant Over, All 4 racial BC 5 to replace current BC 5
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Kiran
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#101 - 2012-03-18 12:57:32 UTC
I dont like the idea of messing with the ships I can fly via slill point reallocation. If this is such a big problem with CCP then why wasn't it figured out when they was released?

At present I can fly Minmatar and Gallentte BC's and soon the Gall Command ships. With the new racial skills being put in will it mean I will have to retrain them (Gallentte race) or do I get skillpoints added for the skills I dont have after the patch ?


I can't see CCP being in the bussiness of giving away free skill points on the live server. I can see us having to retrain for the other races. Unfortuantly I see this is a timesink CCP are putting in, nothing more can be gained from doing this.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#102 - 2012-03-18 13:02:33 UTC
Kiran wrote:
At present I can fly Minmatar and Gallentte BC's and soon the Gall Command ships. With the new racial skills being put in will it mean I will have to retrain them (Gallentte race) or do I get skillpoints added for the skills I dont have after the patch ?
As they have said over and over (and over) again in the blog and comment thread: if you can fly it before the patch, you can fly it after.
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#103 - 2012-03-18 13:26:52 UTC
Yup and I'm soon done with destroyers IV and racial frigates and cruisers IV just to "exploit" my self 3x BC V skills for free.

And I recommend for everyone of you to do the same. Big smile
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#104 - 2012-03-18 18:19:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Severide
Tippia wrote:
Kiran wrote:
At present I can fly Minmatar and Gallentte BC's and soon the Gall Command ships. With the new racial skills being put in will it mean I will have to retrain them (Gallentte race) or do I get skillpoints added for the skills I dont have after the patch ?
As they have said over and over (and over) again in the blog and comment thread: if you can fly it before the patch, you can fly it after.

Tippia, I swear people don't pay attention or read. They just like to bitchh, moan and complain...
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#105 - 2012-03-18 18:23:35 UTC
Buy the old non racial destroyer and battlecruiser skillbooks and keep as collectors items. I know I will.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#106 - 2012-03-19 06:35:03 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Buy the old non racial destroyer and battlecruiser skillbooks and keep as collectors items. I know I will.


AFAIK those books will be removed and your ISK will be refunded to you.
Mokanor Lenak
Odd Fluffy Bunnies
#107 - 2012-03-19 07:16:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Mokanor Lenak
So from what I understand, in order to "exploit" this, all you need to get is BC to 5 and you will be able to fly every T1 frigate/destroyer/cruise/BC?
Or for that to happen you need to get BS skills to 1 for all races, and you than you get all T1 ships frigate to BC?
OfBalance
Caldari State
#108 - 2012-03-19 07:25:57 UTC
Mokanor Lenak wrote:
So from what I understand, in order to "exploit" this, all you need to get is BC to 5 and you will be able to fly every T1 frigate/destroyer/cruise/BC?
Or for that to happen you need to get BS skills to 1 for all races, and you than you get all T1 ships frigate to BC?


BC V + All racial cruisers III. Seriously, this is not a hard concept.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#109 - 2012-03-19 07:25:58 UTC
Mokanor Lenak wrote:
So from what I understand, in order to "exploit" this, all you need to get is BC to 5 and you will be able to fly every T1 frigate/destroyer/cruise/BC?
Or for that to happen you need to get BS skills to 1 for all races, and you than you get all T1 ships frigate to BC?

Tippia wrote:
As they have said over and over (and over) again in the blog and comment thread: if you can fly it before the patch, you can fly it after.

Just because you have BC V does not mean you can fly a 'Cane. Likewise with Destroyers V and Catalysts. Check the prereqs for the ships you are interested in.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#110 - 2012-03-19 07:26:34 UTC
Mokanor Lenak wrote:
So from what I understand, in order to "exploit" this, all you need to get is BC to 5 and you will be able to fly every T1 frigate/destroyer/cruise/BC?
Or for that to happen you need to get BS skills to 1 for all races, and you than you get all T1 ships frigate to BC?
By the sound so far, the most bang for the buck is 4× Frigate III, Destroyers V, 4× Cruiser III, BC V.
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#111 - 2012-03-19 10:06:11 UTC
What tippia said but in case someone is still confused "what you can fly now you can fly after [the change]"

So if you have skills for all 4 racial BCs you can still fly those BCs after the change with equal skill level as before.
Same goes for destroyers as well since it gives you 4 different ships to fly with and frigates are needed for cruisers and you need racial cruiser III to board a racial BC.

Hence it's obvious that you should get destroyers and BCs both to V along with 4x frigate IV and 4x cruiser III in order to get the most benefit from the proposed change.

You need frigate IV for cruisers Tippia, finally caught you on a mistake. P
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#112 - 2012-03-19 10:16:18 UTC
Baneken wrote:
You need frigate IV for cruisers Tippia, finally caught you on a mistake. P
Nah. You only need it at III to get the benefit of the change. Sure, at some point you would have needed them at IV to get the cruiser skills, but if a podding or five has happened since to knock them down to III, you'll still get those destroyer skills.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#113 - 2012-03-19 10:23:34 UTC
They should just bann everyone who trained Destroyer or battlecruiser.
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#114 - 2012-03-19 10:24:39 UTC
Point I'm trying to say is that if you don't have a racial cruiser III you cannot fly a racial BC *right now* which of c. after patch would mean you couldn't had boarded those BC's "before" hence you wouldn't get those extra BC skills, hence you better have those cruiser skills trained which require that racial frigate IV.
Sade Onyx
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#115 - 2012-03-19 10:37:26 UTC
So the best advice is.

Train your BC & Destroyer skills to 5 NOW

Because when this change happens these skills will be quadrupled.
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#116 - 2012-03-20 05:11:09 UTC  |  Edited by: JC Anderson
Shogun Archer wrote:

You did it for cruisers and BS. It's not like you are the only one that would have to do it.
It would probably take about 4-5 days to get the BC skill of any specific race to 4. Big deal.

Most people would only train Drake anyway, sadly. Hell, maybe it would weed out some of the Drake spammers.


If somebody only had to retrain destroyers to 4 and bc to 4 of each race after the change, then yes I would agree with you in that it's not really that big of a deal.

The main problem arises when you look at the tech 2 hull variants of each ship class, which in this case would be command ships and interdictors.

As of right now, I own and can fly the command ship, and interdictor hulls of all four races. To do so, I had to train each of the race specific cruiser (command ship req) and frigate (interdictor req) skills to 5 in order to meet the requirements for both classes of t2 hulls.

In addition, there was a slew of other universal skills that I had to train, including battlecruisers 5 and destroyers 5 for their respective hull types.

Now if the change went into effect without making sure we would be able to fly what we could fly already, I would have ships stranded behind pos shields, in stations, and in other various locations throughout New Eden. And in order to fly all of them, I would have to spend an additional 114 days (29 days x 3 for 3 races command ships + 9 days x 3 for 3 races interdictors) simply to board the very same ships that I was already able to fly in the first place. Seeing as I own at least 2 of every races dictor, and 2 of every races command ships spread out all over the place, this would be a pain.

Now on the other end of the spectrum comes the mentioned change of capital ships no longer requiring racial bs 5. I rarely fly battleships, and in this particular case I only trained multiple races bs to 5 to meet the requirements for the respective capital hull type. So it was somewhat of a waste of time if those requirements are no longer part of the mix.

So I am in somewhat of a grey area here, being both for and against different aspects of that dev blog. In all honesty, I wouldn't be terribly upset over not being able to fly the same ships that I could fly prior, but it would still be a tad bit annoying. Especially considering the above-mentioned training time just to sit in the ships that I already own.
JC Anderson
RED ROSE THORN
#117 - 2012-03-20 05:34:48 UTC
Oh and I would like to say however that I would hope if they do go the route they mentioned, that they simply give all races bc and destroyer skills to 5 to the people who currently have the generic skills trained up.

In this I mean that I hope they don't give us the option to use some of the skillpoints elsewhere as a standard reimbursement would.
Magnus Orin
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2012-03-20 05:44:03 UTC
Is having generic BC and Destroyer skills really that much of a problem that they are going all these lengths to 'fix' it?

Sounds like they are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. Just leave the skills as they are.

Sure it might have been the better way to design it from the first place, but at this point the solution is more complicated than the problem.

OfBalance
Caldari State
#119 - 2012-03-20 06:06:42 UTC
Magnus Orin wrote:
Is having generic BC and Destroyer skills really that much of a problem that they are going all these lengths to 'fix' it?

Sounds like they are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. Just leave the skills as they are.

Sure it might have been the better way to design it from the first place, but at this point the solution is more complicated than the problem.



One can only assume someone's OCD got the better of them. This attempt to make things ~simpler~ has some pretty hefty negatives for the one and only group that it's really being aimed at: players who have just started or will be playing in the future.

Of course this could just be some really contrived attempt to keep newbies away from the promised land of t2 battlecruisers in order to placate the hoards of bitter titan pilots.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#120 - 2012-03-20 06:19:57 UTC
Magnus Orin wrote:
Is having generic BC and Destroyer skills really that much of a problem that they are going all these lengths to 'fix' it?
Yes. BCs in particular unlock an ungodly amount of ships, a large portion of which sit in the “most popular” category. Fixing that isn't really “going to this length” because it's a very simple and easy fix. The issue is rather with the weird upset it has caused…

…but much of that is obviously due to people not reading up on what they're going to do and (still, weeks later) getting upset with something they've explicitly say isn't going to happen. A few others think it's unfair that some players will get much more expensive clones, and that at least shows they've understood what's happening, but the complaint is still odd.