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Rant Over, All 4 racial BC 5 to replace current BC 5
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Ghoest
#81 - 2012-03-17 17:05:16 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
Just reimburse the SP.

Giving players 3 months of free training because they had BC at 5, over those who didn't is just stupid. To the ridiculous whiners who want to retain their ability to fly ALL racial BC and CS: well boohoo! You just use the reimbursed skillpoints to make one racial BC at 5 (or two races at 4). Then you train the rest up LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.

Don't whine about what you can no longer do (until you learn skills again, which you will if it is really that important to you), but be grateful you were lucky enough to enjoy the diversity for so long for so little skillpoints invested.


aawwwwwwww

Looks like someone never trained BC 5.

Wherever You Went - Here You Are
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
#82 - 2012-03-17 17:26:12 UTC
Kojach Baumherr wrote:
and........if i have level IV in battlecruisers and destroyers?

..........


You loose @ eve.

Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown
ivar R'dhak
Deus est Mechanicus
#83 - 2012-03-17 17:26:17 UTC  |  Edited by: ivar R'dhak
Trained BC 5 and can currently fly all of them but actually I´m not so sure I want the "free" 4.5 mill points of those 3 other rank 6 skills on my clone either.
Which is I guess CCP´s current plan ?

Just make the damn racial BC skills rank 5 and give us the skill points of the old BC to redistribute ourselves.
Eve is a harsh b!tch.
Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#84 - 2012-03-17 17:39:35 UTC
I like their approach, making the skill tree more straight forward. However it's a big deal to do the migration right and I think that everyone currently playing eve will benefit from the proposed ideas how to the new version of the skill tree. Don't worry, this time it's even better than incursions: free sps!

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.
EnslaverOfMinmatar
You gonna get aped
#85 - 2012-03-17 17:52:23 UTC  |  Edited by: EnslaverOfMinmatar
Command ships will become the new T3 cruisers and every noob will fly them.

And if there will be no requirement to have hacs and logis for CS I want to unlearn all the prerequisites for hacs and logis and get SP for them. Those useless skills would be Signature Analysis V, Long Range Targeting V, Weapon Upgrades V

Every EVE player must read this http://www.eveonline.com/background/potw/default.asp?cid=29-01-07
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#86 - 2012-03-17 18:03:32 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Though my question is, how will they handle paradoxes?

For example:
I do not have any Gallente ship skills. But, following their plan, I would then have the skills for the dessie and BC of Gallente without the prerequisites. Will this cause the server to explode?



What paradox?

You only need the top tier skills checkmarked green in order to fly, regardless of how many red X's there are beneath it.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#87 - 2012-03-17 18:03:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Taedrin wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Though my question is, how will they handle paradoxes?

For example:
I do not have any Gallente ship skills. But, following their plan, I would then have the skills for the dessie and BC of Gallente without the prerequisites. Will this cause the server to explode?
No, ships also have "secondary" and "tertiary" skill requirements which must be fulfilled before they can be piloted.

Or in other words, the Brutix currently requires Gallente Cruiser level 3 right now in order to be piloted. This is not going to change, even if it will also require Gallente Battlecruiser I.
Actually that's exactly what's going to change, because those kinds of cross-size / tier prerequisites is one of the things they intent to remove with this change.

You will no longer need Gallente Cruiser III to fly the Brutix — all you'll need is Gallente Battlecruisers I. Yes, you will need to have Gallente Cruiser IV to get that level of GBC, but once you have it, the cruiser skill is no longer required and should you be multi-podded back to 900k SP and lose all those cruiser levels, your Brutix will remain flyable. It will be a prerequisite for training the BC skill, not for flying the actual BC.

Or, to fully illustrate the change. Currently we have the following prereqs for Brutix (if we cut out all the redundant Spaceship Command requirements):

Gallente Cruiser III
     Gallente Frigate IV
Battlecruisers I
     Spaceship Command IV

This will be turned into:

Gallente Battlecruiser I
     Spaceship Command IV
     Gallente Cruiser IV
          Gallente Destroyer IV
               Gallente Frigate IV

Instead of two prerequisites (Gal cruiser III and BC I), the Brutix will have one prereq (Gal BC I). This one skill is the only one that will be checked in order to determine whether you can use the ship or not.

EnslaverOfMinmatar wrote:
Command ships will become the new T3 cruisers and every noob will fly them.
Good.
Kessiaan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#88 - 2012-03-17 19:02:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Kessiaan
If destroyers and battlecruisers were new ships, nobody would care.

As it stands now though, this idea is just terrible.

If skillpoints are refunded, then people suddenly only have one racial BC / destroyer V and can't fly all their ships.
If all the racial skills are given out, then everyone who hasn't trained the generic BC / destroyer V gets hit with the nerfbat. Including people who haven't even started playing yet.

If CCP is really determined to go through with this, my suggestion would be to put the new skills in the game a few months ahead of time and make them trainable, but not required. Then on some specific day refund the skillpoints from the generic skill. Sort of like the switch to POS fuel blocks, just with skills.

With destroyers though I just don't see the point - there's only one destroyer for each race, they lack a clearly defined role aside from suicide ganking in highsec (which I don't think we're counting right now Pirate), and making them mandatory for cruisers will just slow people down.

KB Link
Alxea
Unstable Pirate Sharks Of The Damed Sea
#89 - 2012-03-17 19:19:30 UTC
David Rivard wrote:
No. The entire IDEA that they should remove the generic battlecruiser and destroyer skills in favor of more race specific training is abhorrent and short sited.

I clicked unsub four times

No your just very close minded and do not like change. In eve you must adapt or die.Roll
OfBalance
Caldari State
#90 - 2012-03-17 19:29:15 UTC
Kessiaan wrote:
If destroyers and battlecruisers were new ships, nobody would care.

As it stands now though, this idea is just terrible.

If skillpoints are refunded, then people suddenly only have one racial BC / destroyer V and can't fly all their ships.
If all the racial skills are given out, then everyone who hasn't trained the generic BC / destroyer V gets hit with the nerfbat. Including people who haven't even started playing yet.

If CCP is really determined to go through with this, my suggestion would be to put the new skills in the game a few months ahead of time and make them trainable, but not required. Then on some specific day refund the skillpoints from the generic skill. Sort of like the switch to POS fuel blocks, just with skills.

With destroyers though I just don't see the point - there's only one destroyer for each race, they lack a clearly defined role, and making them mandatory for cruisers will just slow people down.


Agreed, especially with the bit about dessies. Making things arbitrarily linear isn't going to help new players and, as mentioned. skillpoint inflation does directly hinder their progress up a fully t1-capable pilot, which matters a hell of a lot more than how quickly we can train alts into command ships (I hope CCP knows they've been obsolete for a while now).
Alexandra Alt
Doomheim
#91 - 2012-03-17 19:41:34 UTC
Large Collidable Object wrote:
Remove skills

Reimburse SP

Introduce racial destroyer as rank 1 skill and racial BC as a rank 2

With the reimbursed SP and a couple of days of training, everone will be able to fly the same ships again without putting the few alts that don't have BC V yet at a major disadvantage. Who gives a toss if they're quick to train? BCs are todays frigs anyway.


No, not a chance.

I can fly all sub cap ships right now, all of them except logistics and black ops, which is what I'm doing right now. After this change I don't want any freaking SP's nor anyone should get any freaking SP's your choices in skill points are definitive and should be kept that way as it alwas been (except when skills are removed completely). But, I do expect to fly the exact same ships after this change, I don't really care how, I don't want to be crippled.

This change has 1 inherent purpose people haven't catched yet, which is the extension of skilling (basically increasing the skilling time) for vets, people who crosstrain or ppl who end up crosstraining because they have nothing else to train for, thus they increased the total skilling for spaceships to prolong the capsuleer life before they start thinking wth am I going to train and this ask for new content.
Master Chief Sunday
Diversity 101
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#92 - 2012-03-17 20:37:49 UTC
Can CCP make it so I only have to train BS lvl 5 ones for all races?

Would make this game much easier.
Drew Solaert
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2012-03-17 21:14:49 UTC
Being the wonderfully specialised person I am, I really REALLY hope they don't force me to have all 4. I don't want 3 Races BC at 4 messing up the skill sheet, as I just won't use them

I lied :o
Greg Valanti
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2012-03-17 21:29:22 UTC
EnslaverOfMinmatar wrote:
Those useless skills would be Signature Analysis V, Long Range Targeting V, Weapon Upgrades V


I hope this statement was intended as a joke.
Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2012-03-17 22:37:34 UTC
David Rivard wrote:
No. The entire IDEA that they should remove the generic battlecruiser and destroyer skills in favor of more race specific training is abhorrent and short sited.

I clicked unsub four times


Still posting though...

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Avid Bumhumper
Beekeepers Anonymous
#96 - 2012-03-17 22:57:52 UTC
The really funny thing about this thread is, no one is considering the amount of resources involved in redesigning the database. All to create separate skills for a ship class that wasn't really broken....Oops

My Tinfoil hat has been sugically implanted, so no,it is not for sale.....
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#97 - 2012-03-18 08:11:20 UTC
Avid Bumhumper wrote:
The really funny thing about this thread is, no one is considering the amount of resources involved in redesigning the database. All to create separate skills for a ship class that wasn't really broken....Oops
That's because the thing they're trying to fix isn't the ship class, but the “database design”.
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2012-03-18 09:16:50 UTC
David Rivard wrote:
No. The entire IDEA that they should remove the generic battlecruiser and destroyer skills in favor of more race specific training is abhorrent and short sited.

I clicked unsub four times



Or well thought out and planning for the future of additional faction battlecruiser sized ships.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Lexmana
#99 - 2012-03-18 09:32:56 UTC
Avid Bumhumper wrote:
The really funny thing about this thread is, no one is considering the amount of resources involved in redesigning the database. All to create separate skills for a ship class that wasn't really broken....Oops

Well, it might not have been broken when they introduced it. But now we have tier 3 BC and after tiericide rebalancing, the current mechanics would give you 12 of the most useful ships in game with one single skill and very low prereq. Some might actually think that is broken.
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#100 - 2012-03-18 12:38:58 UTC
David Rivard wrote:
No. The entire IDEA that they should remove the generic battlecruiser and destroyer skills in favor of more race specific training is abhorrent and short sited.

I clicked unsub four times

Another stupid whiner. Good Riddance....